Start Manny Parra right now!

livestrong4ever · Post #21 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:36 pm

Fort Minor wrote:So you want to start Villanueva, a guy who has been struggling lately because he's been overworked? Isn't that going in the complete opposite direction? Please tell me how there would be any logic behind that decision.

I'm fine with how they're using Parra. As a guy who blew out his arm only a few seasons ago, I don't want to see him overworked in his first season in the bigs because of a panic-button move.

And considering Suppan has looked better as of late, I hardly see this as the time to call for this move. Maybe 4 starts ago, but not now.

I would still like to see Suppan go 6 at least, though. Even Bush was able to do that yesterday.

How is CV being overworked when he is used to getting more innings pitched per year in the minors where he was a starter.

brewcityboii · Post #22 » by **brewcityboii** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:38 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

How is CV being overworked when he is used to getting more innings pitched per year in the minors where he was a starter.

I don't think it has as much to do with IP as it does with the multiple appearances he has had. I do not think he used to starting and stopping so much with no normal rest schedule.

Ayt · Post #23 » by **Ayt** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:15 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

How is CV being overworked when he is used to getting more innings pitched per year in the minors where he was a starter.

IP by relievers in MLB

Its not the total innings, which is less than he'd have as a starter, its the fact that he is used so often and often for more than one inning. Being used in the way he has been this season out of the pen is actually pretty abusive, IMO.

Fort Minor · Post #24 » by **Fort Minor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:32 pm

Ayt wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

IP by relievers in MLB

Its not the total innings, which is less than he'd have as a starter, its the fact that he is used so often and often for more than one inning. Being used in the way he has been this season out of the pen is actually pretty abusive, IMO.

Yep.

ilivestrong, did you not look at CV today and wonder what happened? The guy's limit seems to be 1 inning these days, and if iut goes beyond that he usually ends up giving up 2-3 runs. So you honestly think he just started to suck all of a sudden? This is clearly a fatigue thing.

livestrong4ever · Post #25 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:37 pm

Ayt wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

IP by relievers in MLB

Its not the total innings, which is less than he'd have as a starter, its the fact that he is used so often and often for more than one inning. Being used in the way he has been this season out of the pen is actually pretty abusive, IMO.

He is the long reliever so he is going to have alot of innings. He had to make 1 spot start and had to pitch those 4 innings in chicago. But this is why we are carrying an extra pitcher now because our starters cant go 6 innings. I think are bullpen as a whole is up there in innings pitched.

Fort Minor · Post #26 » by **Fort Minor** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:41 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

He is the long reliever so he is going to have alot of innings. He had to make 1 spot start and had to pitch those 4 innings in chicago. But this is why we are carrying an extra pitcher now because our starters cant go 6 innings. I think are bullpen as a whole is up there in innings pitched.

This is his first year as a long reliever. He had been a starter for all of his career. That's big, especially with how many times he's been used already.

livestrong4ever · Post #27 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:43 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/agg ... g&type=reg

Post all star break

Ayt · Post #28 » by **Ayt** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:48 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=thirdInnings&split=182&group=9&season=2007&seasonType=2&statType=pitching&type=reg

Post all star break

What are you trying to show here exactly?

livestrong4ever · Post #29 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:52 pm

Ayt wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

What are you trying to show here exactly?

that its just not cv being overworked its the whole bullpen.

Ayt · Post #30 » by **Ayt** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:53 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

He is the long reliever so he is going to have alot of innings. He had to make 1 spot start and had to pitch those 4 innings in chicago. But this is why we are carrying an extra pitcher now because our starters cant go 6 innings. I think are bullpen as a whole is up there in innings pitched.

The link I posted only takes into account IP out of the pen, so it doesn't even factor in the start CV had.

And he hasn't really been the long reliever. He's been used in every situation except closing.

He's just pitched way too many innings out of the pen and almost all of them have been on 1 or 2 days of rest. 47% of his relief innings have come with one day of rest, and 31% have come with two days off.

He's been abused.

Ayt · Post #31 » by **Ayt** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:55 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

that its just not cv being overworked its the whole bullpen.

That link was just for overall IP, not for the pen.

On the season, we are 7th out of 16 NL teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/agg ... g&type=reg

trwi7 · Post #32 » by **trwi7** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:56 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

that its just not cv being overworked its the whole bullpen.

What you just put up has nothing to do with the bullpen.

trwi7 · Post #33 » by **trwi7** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:58 pm

We're also carrying an extra pitcher right now and have been for some time. If Yost is overworking the bullpen with an extra reliever then he's more incompetent than I first thought.

Ayt · Post #34 » by **Ayt** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:00 pm

trwi7 wrote:We're also carrying an extra pitcher right now and have been for some time. If Yost is overworking the bullpen with an extra reliever then he's more incompetent than I first thought.

He's overworking a potential future starter who is only 23. Here's hoping CV isn't injured or that he doesn't become injured from a fatigued arm.

livestrong4ever · Post #35 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:12 pm

How is this yost's fault when the starters cant get out of the 5th inning. Of course he has to carry an extra person for the bullpen.

trwi7 · Post #36 » by **trwi7** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:16 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:How is this yost's fault when the starters cant get out of the 5th inning. Of course he has to carry an extra person for the bullpen.

Because he continually used Villanueva for several innings and warming him up and ending up not using him.

He has the most innings pitched of ANY reliever in all of baseball. And you wonder why he's struggling?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pit ... ll&minip=0

livestrong4ever · Post #37 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:22 pm

I understand he has the most ip in baseball. but like i said before his body should be used to it from being a starter. I know its diffrent being a reliever. But he should still should be able to go 98 and do whatever else he has to do.

trwi7 · Post #38 » by **trwi7** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:33 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:I understand he has the most ip in baseball. but like i said before his body should be used to it from being a starter. I know its diffrent being a reliever. But he should still should be able to go 98 and do whatever else he has to do.

Well then obviously you've never pitched. That's a TON of wear and tear on his arm. Starting you're in a set routine and you stay on that routine all year.

In the bullpen you go into the games and warm up many times without actually getting into the game. You pitch on consecutive days many times sometimes going more than one inning.