ImageImage

2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Acquire Narvaez from SEA for a Prospect and a Pick

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis, humanrefutation

User avatar
JimmyTheKid
Head Coach
Posts: 7,389
And1: 2,682
Joined: Feb 10, 2009

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#361 » by JimmyTheKid » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:04 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Read on Twitter


It begins.


I've fanboy'd enough for twenty fanboys since David Stearns started calling the shots. I mean seriously, whats not to love about the job he's done so far? From orchestrating a blockbuster trade for the best player in baseball to shrewd 1-year free agent signings and deadline deals, its been a hell of a lot of fun to watch. I think he truly enjoys the challenge of operating in a small market. Not sure he'd be as happy in New York or LA. He's built for this job. Too many times in sports you see that tired cliche'd "loyalty" word pop up. Or "home town discount." Stearns has no time for any of that. He tries to improve the product on the field by any means necessary. He sets prices for players and doesn't budge. Lorenzo Cain, Mike Moustakas, Josh Hader are all fan favorites. Already-angry Brewers fans are filling the radio airwaves. Stearns doesn't care at all. He's too busy trying to get better. I'm excited to see whats next.
neiLz
Starter
Posts: 2,468
And1: 666
Joined: Oct 04, 2011
Location: Riverwest
     

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#362 » by neiLz » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:19 pm

I'm hoping they go the route of 1 year moose/grandal type deals and pay overpay a little, try to contend, and if it doesn't work, trade them at the deadline. I think with this current core of yelich, cain, hiura, woodruff, hader, braun, they are about an 80ish win team if they fill in the holes with Avg free agents. If they spend the 50-70 mil and get to the 130 mil payroll and hit on them like moose and grandal, we are looking at playoff contender.

The 1 year route sets you up both ways, can get some semi decent prospects if it fails and if it doesn't you're in contention and can do the same thing next year.

I trust stearns and cannot wait to see what he does.
Formerly known as ArodpwnsFavre
User avatar
trwi7
RealGM
Posts: 106,446
And1: 20,310
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: Aussie bias
         

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#363 » by trwi7 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:19 pm

Warms to cockles of my heart to read all this rebuilding talk.
stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."


I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
leroyjw10
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,260
And1: 816
Joined: Oct 27, 2016
     

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#364 » by leroyjw10 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:31 pm

I'd be interested to see how desperate the Red Sox are to unload salary. David Price has an ugly contract (3 yrs, $96 million left), but what would they be willing to add to take on that contract? Something like this:

MIL: Josh Hader
BOS: David Price, LF Andrew Benintendi, RP Matt Barnes and 3B prospect Bobby Dalbec

Sox get much-needed bullpen help. Brewers hope Price returns to form in a smaller, less pressure small market, put Benintendi in left, move Braun to 1B, add Barnes' high K rate to the bullpen and pick up a much-needed corner infield prospect.
MAC1987
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,719
And1: 430
Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#365 » by MAC1987 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:35 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Read on Twitter


It begins.


I wonder what is being offered for Hiura and what type of team (Contending or non....). I mean tell us what you got...lol.
"Must win"
User avatar
Kerb Hohl
RealGM
Posts: 27,651
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#366 » by Kerb Hohl » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:52 pm

trwi7 wrote:Warms to cockles of my heart to read all this rebuilding talk.


Yes, you were right. They, like essentially every other small market team have not and won a title. You were right about Yelich and Cain being players that would help, "our 83 win overlord."

You were right that the Brewers should've rebuilt 2-3 years ago because in the dreams of those that want to tank, a World Series banner in the year [current year] + 5 has already been hung.

Image
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 70,500
And1: 4,142
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#367 » by LUKE23 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:57 pm

I think if we can add Rendon we are right back to having a pretty nice offense. I think Cain's lack of production last year was more injury than age. But Hiura/Yelich/Rendon is about as good of a trio as you can get offensively. Knebel is back, which is huge for the pen. They would need to add a legit rotation piece as well (would also help if Burnes/Peralta bounced back).
User avatar
Kerb Hohl
RealGM
Posts: 27,651
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#368 » by Kerb Hohl » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:02 pm

They technically have room for Rendon and I'm sure we'll hear that they make an offer, but given how much roster they need to fill and the fact that we never get the A1 free agents, I doubt that happens.

At this point I'm assuming some salary dump trades or some massive, reshaping trade is made to fill the Brewers roster along with a few mid-price free agent signings.
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 70,500
And1: 4,142
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#369 » by LUKE23 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:04 pm

I get why some want to rebuild, I just find it tougher to do when we already have two superstar players (Yelich, Hader) and another one potentially in the making in Hiura. Because the whole point of rebuilding is to try and acquire superstars in your system, which is really goddam hard to do. With Yelich locked up three more years I find it tough to rebuild, although if they do it, they need to do it completely.

At the same time, if we are going to try and win now, they need to not half ass it. Go for the big dogs and spend some cash.
User avatar
Kerb Hohl
RealGM
Posts: 27,651
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#370 » by Kerb Hohl » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:11 pm

LUKE23 wrote:I get why some want to rebuild, I just find it tougher to do when we already have two superstar players (Yelich, Hader) and another one potentially in the making in Hiura. Because the whole point of rebuilding is to try and acquire superstars in your system, which is really goddam hard to do. With Yelich locked up three more years I find it tough to rebuild, although if they do it, they need to do it completely.

At the same time, if we are going to try and win now, they need to not half ass it. Go for the big dogs and spend some cash.


Pretty much this.

Obviously the ideal rebuild will get you guys as good as Yelich/Hader/Hiura/maybe Cain/Woodruff and their windows will line up by like 4 years AND you have replenishment in the farm for depth. The Brewers are fading in the depth department already.

But you could either trade those guys (some of them for 50 cents on the dollar) because you want to right now and tank for 3-4 years or you could try to win for 2 years with them and then deal some away if it falls apart to replenish the farm system and bottom out for 2 years. They might be back with a deeper farm system in 2024 or something then.

There's also a massive downside of a decade of hitting the reset button over and over if any part of the tanking fails.
User avatar
Wisky4life
Analyst
Posts: 3,667
And1: 953
Joined: Feb 05, 2014
Contact:

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#371 » by Wisky4life » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:27 pm

Trade Cain. Keep Hader

Sign Rendon and 2 other aces.

Why not? Keeps payroll manageable still, I'd imagine.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app
“We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees.” –Jason Kidd
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 12,745
And1: 8,367
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#372 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:27 pm

Every fan has their own way of judging their teams success and failure. No real right or wrong to it.

If you're someone who's championship or bust then it's fine to consider the past few years a failure.

Personally I've enjoyed the past few seasons. I was 3 when the made the world series so this is really the most successful run I've actually watched. It's been fun watching real meaningful fall baseball for a change. So selfishly I do hope they have another year or two run in them because if the Brewers are bad I basically won't watch baseball.

As I get older I feel like I'm less inclined to want full burn it down rebuilds. I still logically get why teams do it but I just have less patience to actually watch the **** part of that process.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
bdpecore
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,846
And1: 481
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
     

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#373 » by bdpecore » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:29 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:They technically have room for Rendon and I'm sure we'll hear that they make an offer, but given how much roster they need to fill and the fact that we never get the A1 free agents, I doubt that happens.

At this point I'm assuming some salary dump trades or some massive, reshaping trade is made to fill the Brewers roster along with a few mid-price free agent signings.

Signing Rendon means we would be forced to let Yelich walk come 2022. I’d much rather look at Josh Donaldson who can provide similar production but will only require a three year commitment instead of seven or eight for Rendon. Sign one of Cron, Smoak, Kendrick or Thames to play 1B and Chirinos, Avila or Castro to platoon with Pina and our line up would be very formidable.

Then take the remaining $$$ and add some pitching. I’d target guys like Dallas Keuchel, Cole Hamels, Michael Pineda, Tanner Roark, Aaron Sanchez, Taijuan Walker, Jordan Lyles, Blake Treinen, Pedro Strop, Danny Hultzen and Jeremy Jeffress who all could be dependable and potential above average contributors for under $15MM AAV.
User avatar
Kerb Hohl
RealGM
Posts: 27,651
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#374 » by Kerb Hohl » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:37 pm

bdpecore wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:They technically have room for Rendon and I'm sure we'll hear that they make an offer, but given how much roster they need to fill and the fact that we never get the A1 free agents, I doubt that happens.

At this point I'm assuming some salary dump trades or some massive, reshaping trade is made to fill the Brewers roster along with a few mid-price free agent signings.

Signing Rendon means we would be forced to let Yelich walk come 2022. I’d much rather look at Josh Donaldson who can provide similar production but will only require a three year commitment instead of seven or eight for Rendon. Sign one of Cron, Smoak, Kendrick or Thames to play 1B and Chirinos, Avila or Castro to platoon with Pina and our line up would be very formidable.

Then take the remaining $$$ and add some pitching. I’d target guys like Dallas Keuchel, Cole Hamels, Michael Pineda, Tanner Roark, Aaron Sanchez, Taijuan Walker, Jordan Lyles, Blake Treinen, Pedro Strop, Danny Hultzen and Jeremy Jeffress who all could be dependable and potential above average contributors for under $15MM AAV.


Yelich can and should walk in 2022 unless the Brewers are still on the cusp of being a World Series team.

He will be turning 31 going into the 2022 season. Steroid stuff aside, Braun was still great at 31 and 32 and has not been bad since but has dropped off. So you can kinda expect maybe elite play for 2 years into his extension before he starts to tail off.

So you'd have to extend Yelich and make something happen real fast to make that worthwhile. Basically surround him with a World Series team in 2022 and 2023 before you're paying him for like 6 years and $150 million or whatever to fall off a cliff from 2024-2029.
bdpecore
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,846
And1: 481
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
     

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#375 » by bdpecore » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:39 pm

I’m sure Stearns has already called to see what the Mets wants in exchange for a Lowrie and Smith/Davis package would cost to acquire.

https://t.co/MGOQnvRnPx?amp=1
bdpecore
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,846
And1: 481
Joined: Jul 03, 2010
     

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#376 » by bdpecore » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:48 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
bdpecore wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:They technically have room for Rendon and I'm sure we'll hear that they make an offer, but given how much roster they need to fill and the fact that we never get the A1 free agents, I doubt that happens.

At this point I'm assuming some salary dump trades or some massive, reshaping trade is made to fill the Brewers roster along with a few mid-price free agent signings.

Signing Rendon means we would be forced to let Yelich walk come 2022. I’d much rather look at Josh Donaldson who can provide similar production but will only require a three year commitment instead of seven or eight for Rendon. Sign one of Cron, Smoak, Kendrick or Thames to play 1B and Chirinos, Avila or Castro to platoon with Pina and our line up would be very formidable.

Then take the remaining $$$ and add some pitching. I’d target guys like Dallas Keuchel, Cole Hamels, Michael Pineda, Tanner Roark, Aaron Sanchez, Taijuan Walker, Jordan Lyles, Blake Treinen, Pedro Strop, Danny Hultzen and Jeremy Jeffress who all could be dependable and potential above average contributors for under $15MM AAV.


Yelich can and should walk in 2022 unless the Brewers are still on the cusp of being a World Series team.

He will be turning 31 going into the 2022 season. Steroid stuff aside, Braun was still great at 31 and 32 and has not been bad since but has dropped off. So you can kinda expect maybe elite play for 2 years into his extension before he starts to tail off.

So you'd have to extend Yelich and make something happen real fast to make that worthwhile. Basically surround him with a World Series team in 2022 and 2023 before you're paying him for like 6 years and $150 million or whatever to fall off a cliff from 2024-2029.

So signing Rendon to a 7-8 year deal while being 30 and playing 3B is ok but resigning our own star player who will be 31 who will likely be playing LF by this time to a 6 year deal isn’t as good? This team will be hamstrung financially going forward if we sign Rendon which means we won’t be able to afford to add quality pitchers. Not sure this is the best route to take.
User avatar
coolhandluke121
General Manager
Posts: 8,788
And1: 1,868
Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#377 » by coolhandluke121 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:50 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
What evidence do you have that the Brewers will just kinda sit there, win 80 games by going half-in this year, and then think about competing in one of Yelich's final 2 years?

The evidence that I have that they'll be aggressive is:

1. If the Brewers are within a country mile of having a good team, especially with superstar(s), Attanasio wants to win.
2. Stearns now several times has gone into the last few offseasons with fans thinking, "well, we're a a year or two away here, let's be patient" and then he acquires 2 All-Stars.



The first evidence is all the guys they've basically given away. I don't think they can expect to plug all the holes via free agency. Guys like Anderson, Davies, Guerra, and Shaw weren't going to be good every year, but their career years were a big part of the success the Brewers have had recently.

Mark A. also acknowledged at the end of the Weeks/Hart/MVP Braun era that he learned a lot from his mistakes with regard to being too competitive and not also keeping one eye on the future. He basically said you can't keep patching a contender around a few stars year after year.

I'm sure if they have an opportunity like Yelich or Cain again, they'll take it, but I think they're making some contingency plans that open the door to a reset.
Wut we've got here is... faaailure... to communakate.
User avatar
coolhandluke121
General Manager
Posts: 8,788
And1: 1,868
Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#378 » by coolhandluke121 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:54 pm

neiLz wrote:I'm hoping they go the route of 1 year moose/grandal type deals and pay overpay a little, try to contend, and if it doesn't work, trade them at the deadline. I think with this current core of yelich, cain, hiura, woodruff, hader, braun, they are about an 80ish win team if they fill in the holes with Avg free agents. If they spend the 50-70 mil and get to the 130 mil payroll and hit on them like moose and grandal, we are looking at playoff contender.

The 1 year route sets you up both ways, can get some semi decent prospects if it fails and if it doesn't you're in contention and can do the same thing next year.

I trust stearns and cannot wait to see what he does.


I pretty much agree with all of this. They mostly need to get a read on some of the young pitchers, because they're obviously going to depend on them a lot, even if they sign a starter or two.
Wut we've got here is... faaailure... to communakate.
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 12,745
And1: 8,367
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#379 » by WeekapaugGroove » Tue Dec 3, 2019 8:01 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:
neiLz wrote:I'm hoping they go the route of 1 year moose/grandal type deals and pay overpay a little, try to contend, and if it doesn't work, trade them at the deadline. I think with this current core of yelich, cain, hiura, woodruff, hader, braun, they are about an 80ish win team if they fill in the holes with Avg free agents. If they spend the 50-70 mil and get to the 130 mil payroll and hit on them like moose and grandal, we are looking at playoff contender.

The 1 year route sets you up both ways, can get some semi decent prospects if it fails and if it doesn't you're in contention and can do the same thing next year.

I trust stearns and cannot wait to see what he does.


I pretty much agree with all of this. They mostly need to get a read on some of the young pitchers, because they're obviously going to depend on them a lot, even if they sign a starter or two.


Yeah I think this general strategy is the way to go for small to mid market teams. Have some core guys and some cheap pre-arby role players then basically build the rest of your team year to year. Years you hit on those short team additions you can go for it and fill in a little at the deadline and years that things don't work out you can try to flip a few of those guys for prospects and try again the following year.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
User avatar
Kerb Hohl
RealGM
Posts: 27,651
And1: 1,551
Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?

Re: 2019 Brewers Offseason Thread - Moose to CIN; Hader's on the Block; Arcia Signs 1YD, Bye Shaw/Nelson+ 

Post#380 » by Kerb Hohl » Tue Dec 3, 2019 8:02 pm

bdpecore wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:
bdpecore wrote:Signing Rendon means we would be forced to let Yelich walk come 2022. I’d much rather look at Josh Donaldson who can provide similar production but will only require a three year commitment instead of seven or eight for Rendon. Sign one of Cron, Smoak, Kendrick or Thames to play 1B and Chirinos, Avila or Castro to platoon with Pina and our line up would be very formidable.

Then take the remaining $$$ and add some pitching. I’d target guys like Dallas Keuchel, Cole Hamels, Michael Pineda, Tanner Roark, Aaron Sanchez, Taijuan Walker, Jordan Lyles, Blake Treinen, Pedro Strop, Danny Hultzen and Jeremy Jeffress who all could be dependable and potential above average contributors for under $15MM AAV.


Yelich can and should walk in 2022 unless the Brewers are still on the cusp of being a World Series team.

He will be turning 31 going into the 2022 season. Steroid stuff aside, Braun was still great at 31 and 32 and has not been bad since but has dropped off. So you can kinda expect maybe elite play for 2 years into his extension before he starts to tail off.

So you'd have to extend Yelich and make something happen real fast to make that worthwhile. Basically surround him with a World Series team in 2022 and 2023 before you're paying him for like 6 years and $150 million or whatever to fall off a cliff from 2024-2029.

So signing Rendon to a 7-8 year deal while being 30 and playing 3B is ok but resigning our own star player who will be 31 who will likely be playing LF by this time to a 6 year deal isn’t as good? This team will be hamstrung financially going forward if we sign Rendon which means we won’t be able to afford to add quality pitchers. Not sure this is the best route to take.



We'd have to see where the Brewers sit at that point, but yes.

We're on the back-end of a window with a depleted farm system. It makes more sense to pay Rendon for 6 years and have his 3 dominant years line up with Yelich's 3 dominant years (plus Cain, Hader, Hiura, Woodruff, etc.) and then pay Rendon while you rebuild.

There are ways they could make it work with Yelich but I feel like you'd basically just be starting with the overpaid building block and not have as much to work with.

Return to Milwaukee Brewers