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ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!

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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#441 » by MickeyDavis » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:46 pm

Manfred is handling all this just the way his mentor Selig would. Horribly.
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Re: ATL: Offseason 

Post#442 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:18 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:I don't know why this isn't the biggest story in sports right now. This literally could have influenced a World Series win.


Said this back in mid-November. I'm glad it ended up getting the attention it deserved.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#443 » by tydett » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:49 pm

Juice to give yourself a competitive advantage: Suspensions, fines

Institute organization-wide cheating that players are complicit in giving them a competitive advantage: :wavefinger:
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#444 » by Kerb Hohl » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:49 pm

I don't know if it's just damage control but Manfred basically said he had no power to discipline the players. There was no rule technically on the books with the players and the union basically blocked all of their players from talking to the commissioner's office until they were all granted full immunity.

Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.

As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#445 » by dinderdan » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:02 am

All the Astro's fans be like "What about the Patri-cheats and the Rex Sox and all the other teams stealing signs???"

Personally I don't think it even matters, because the Astros were so egregious and arrogant about the whole thing. You can go on Youtube on and look at games from 2017 and the trash can banging is so obvious and undeniable. They were using some sort of algorithm to quickly decode the signs, plus there is no proof that they stopped doing so, and common sense says they went on to better, more inconspicuous methods before they were busted.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#446 » by MickeyDavis » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:43 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:I don't know if it's just damage control but Manfred basically said he had no power to discipline the players. There was no rule technically on the books with the players and the union basically blocked all of their players from talking to the commissioner's office until they were all granted full immunity.

Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.

As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.

Manfred should have forced the union's hand. Suspend the cheaters. A majority of the players would have been in favor of suspensions
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#447 » by Kerb Hohl » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:38 pm

I agree with you guys but I also fear there are more teams doing something at least somewhat close to the Astros than we think. And I’m not defending Manfred too much, he sounds like an idiot up there...but that’s the practical side of things of what he was up against. Not as easy to do the right thing as we want it to be.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#448 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:27 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:I don't know if it's just damage control but Manfred basically said he had no power to discipline the players. There was no rule technically on the books with the players and the union basically blocked all of their players from talking to the commissioner's office until they were all granted full immunity.

Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.

As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.

Manfred should have forced the union's hand. Suspend the cheaters. A majority of the players would have been in favor of suspensions


It apparently would have violated federal labor laws if Manfred had even attempted to suspend the players.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#449 » by humanrefutation » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:15 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
MickeyDavis wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:I don't know if it's just damage control but Manfred basically said he had no power to discipline the players. There was no rule technically on the books with the players and the union basically blocked all of their players from talking to the commissioner's office until they were all granted full immunity.

Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.

As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.

Manfred should have forced the union's hand. Suspend the cheaters. A majority of the players would have been in favor of suspensions


It apparently would have violated federal labor laws if Manfred had even attempted to suspend the players.


You have to go through the terms outlined in the CBA, and the CBA does have a catch-all for discipline for "conduct detrimental or prejudicial for baseball." You can see the discipline code starting on page 51.

https://www.dol.gov/OLMS/regs/compliance/cba/2019/private/30MajorClubs_K9831_060122.pdf

I think the issue here is that Manfred could not offer immunity to the players for cooperating only to renege on that afterwards. That would almost certainly violate federal law.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#450 » by MickeyDavis » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:05 pm

Already had Fiers talking. Could have offered immunity to one or two others, suspend the hell out of the others. He would have had plenty of takers.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#451 » by Kerb Hohl » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:21 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Already had Fiers talking. Could have offered immunity to one or two others, suspend the hell out of the others. He would have had plenty of takers.


I know Trout and Bellinger spoke up and that there are obviously going to be guys pissed off that Marwin Gonzalez might've taken $5 million extra that could've gone to them or something. That's there.

But this is still a player's union. I fully understand how pissed off some of those guys are, but what if once suspended, Bregman called out some players on the Rays or Dodgers for something. And then the other likely cheating going on got called out. Now a shitload of players are suspended and it does not do much good for the "clean" players.

There's kind of a fine line that the players have to dance with this and the steroid scandal where some guys that are clean can be pissed off but also don't want to damage the popularity of the game further or the position of the players in contract negotiations, etc.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#452 » by humanrefutation » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:08 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:Already had Fiers talking. Could have offered immunity to one or two others, suspend the hell out of the others. He would have had plenty of takers.


Thing is, you have to go through the union in order to make that offer - and Manfred allegedly did so - but a union will never agree to protect a handful of members at the expense of everyone else. It effectively undercuts the very notion of a "union."

The only way around that would have been for Manfred to interview those guys without guaranteeing immunity. Obviously no current Astros player would snitch. Most former teammates wouldn't either if they knew they could be suspended.

You probably would have had takers from a variety of non-Astros, but those other guys could only offer "hearsay" evidence - "I heard from so-and-so" - or speculation based on what they believe they've seen or heard.

Ultimately, if Manfred wanted to suspend them, he would have had to do it with limited evidence and then be prepared to defend his actions in court.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#453 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:25 pm

I dislike MadBum but Mason Saunders is righteous as hell.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#454 » by Kerb Hohl » Tue Mar 3, 2020 4:00 pm

Sale is going to Dr. James Andrews.

They traded Mookie at the right time.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#455 » by Kerb Hohl » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:04 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Sale is going to Dr. James Andrews.

They traded Mookie at the right time.


Officially getting TJ.
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Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK! 

Post#456 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:58 pm

Thor is getting TJ too. Ouch.
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