Game 66: Crew at Indians - 6/17/09

[ReasonablySober]

What do you say we just revisit this at the end of the year. I obviously have a problem using Gwynn's young professional career as a reason to say he will or won't succeed (despite his success in AAA and thus far at SD in '09...I still don't know how this works ). You are willing to say with 100% certainty that Gwynn is all he'll ever be and that Gerut is ("case closed") a better option for the Brewers this season. Let's just check back here in September. If Gerut comes on and winds up being a valuable member of this team I'll be thrilled to acknowledge it. But if he's crap I'd prefer to have the younger, cheaper version regardless of what Gwynn accomplishes this season.

[Buck You]

Gwynn doing a good job in San Diego is no surprise for me. Even though i was basically called an idiot for years for saying he will be a good baseball player.

Well some players just find a niche in some places. Coffey has found it here in Milwaukee and Gwynn found his in San Diego. I'm sure being able to see his Dad everyday helps a lot.

[Kerb Hohl]

What do you say we just revisit this at the end of the year. I obviously have a problem using Gwynn's young professional career as a reason to say he will or won't succeed (despite his success in AAA and thus far at SD in '09...I still don't know how this works ). You are willing to say with 100% certainty that Gwynn is all he'll ever be and that Gerut is ("case closed") a better option for the Brewers this season. Let's just check back here in September. If Gerut comes on and winds up being a valuable member of this team I'll be thrilled to acknowledge it. But if he's crap I'd prefer to have the younger, cheaper version regardless of what Gwynn accomplishes this season.

To clarify, I think Gwynn is better than his young career has shown. I stated that numerous times.

But I'm basing Gwynn's hot start being vastly overrated by the fact that his numbers have never been very good at any level. This past year in AAA he had some nice numbers, but as I said, Irrabarren and Heether are putting up the same numbers.

The thing that snags me in all of this is you rag me for saying Gwynn wouldn't be doing any better because he couldn't pinch hit or spot start here and wasn't that great of a player to begin with. On the contrary, you tell me that Gerut will have no value here because he had a cold start in SD this year and so far in Milwaukee. Mind you, he has better career stats in A, AA, AAA, and MLB than Tony Gwynn Jr. And a ton more at bats to show for it.

Yeah, I get that Gerut has maybe fallen off the horse already or something. Maybe he has lost it. But if Mark A. is paying the bills and says the difference of a million dollars the rest of the year doesn't bother him at all then I'll take the better career player and guy that projects to be a better player any day of the week.

Also, I'm not trying to back out of this, I think Gerut will contribute by the end of the year to the Milwaukee Brewers which is more than I ever would have said for Tony Gwynn Jr, but if Gerut stays in a reserve role and Gwynn starts all year it is comparing apples to oranges. You say call you when Gerut contributes, I say call me when Gwynn plays the second half of the year with anything over a .700 OPS.

[Ayt]

What do you say we just revisit this at the end of the year. I obviously have a problem using Gwynn's young professional career as a reason to say he will or won't succeed (despite his success in AAA and thus far at SD in '09...I still don't know how this works ). You are willing to say with 100% certainty that Gwynn is all he'll ever be and that Gerut is ("case closed") a better option for the Brewers this season. Let's just check back here in September. If Gerut comes on and winds up being a valuable member of this team I'll be thrilled to acknowledge it. But if he's crap I'd prefer to have the younger, cheaper version regardless of what Gwynn accomplishes this season.

He wasn't that good in AAA. He turns 27 in October and this year was his best year out of the 4 partial seasons he spent at that level. Producing like he did at his age level is definitely nothing special. Think of the types of players you'd compare Gwynn to then look up what they were able to do in AAA.

Gwynn cleared waivers earlier this year. Anyone could have taken him, but no one did. I think DM was happy to get a guy like Gerut seemingly on the cheap since he'd struggled this year, but played extremely well last season. He had his chance in Milwaukee to cut out his niche as a backup OF and PH and he didn't make it. He had a chance to show in the minors that he could be more than a backup OF in the majors, and he definitely didn't do that, even at his advanced age.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Gwynn was going to become a minor league FA after this year anyway. He hadn't been successful when he was given the chance for what they needed on the big club, so they traded him for a guy coming off an excellent season that is arby eligible the next two years and actually has some MLB success. Gerut is exactly the kind of left handed, versatile OF with some pop we needed off the pine (since we traded Gross). For a player of Gwynn's caliber, he had plenty of chances to make the team in ST or to carve out a niche for himself when he was on the 25 man roster.

[Ayt]

Why are we talking about Slappy McSingles anyway? This is the guy we shouldn't have traded.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/p ... yerId=6242

[trwi7]

Why are we talking about Slappy McSingles anyway? This is the guy we shouldn't have traded.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/p ... yerId=6242

I knew exactly who you were talking about before I even clicked the link. I also have no idea why we traded him. Lee for Mench/Cordero was fair-ish, especially since Texas was going to get picks at the end of the season for Lee. I really have no idea why we needed a Cruz for Nix swap. At that point, Nix had had over a seasons worth of at bats in the majors and he wasn't particularly good in the 2006 season with Oklahoma before the trade was made with only a .753 OPS.

Cruz on the other hand was only given five at bats in the majors in 2005. He posted a .965 OPS in Huntsville that year and was moved up and posted an .872 OPS in Nashville. In 2006 he posted a .902 OPS in Nashville, struggled in Texas that year, went back to AAA, posted a 1.126 OPS, got called back up, struggled again, went back to the minors in 2008, posted a 1.124 OPS, got called up again and apparently figured it out posting a 1.030 OPS in 2008 with the Rangers and a .920 OPS so far this year.

BTW, Texas got Blake Beaven and Julio Borbon for Carlos Lee. We got Odorizzi and Lintz for Cordero.

[Ayt]

IIRC, how it went down was that DM wanted Mench to replace Lee in the majors and the Rangers wanted Cruz if that were to go down. DM compromised by getting Nix back as well. So basically, the only reason we gave up Cruz was because of Mench.

Edit: Found some confirmation.

Melvin tried to get Mench and Francisco Cordero straight-up for Lee. But because the Rangers are only guaranteed Lee's services for two months -- a point Texas GM Jon Daniels made repeatedly during negotiations -- Nix and Cruz were included to "balance out the deal," Melvin said. Cruz is an exceptional prospect who hit his 20th home run for Triple-A Nashville on Thursday night.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... p&c_id=mlb