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Official Fire Yost thread.

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Post#301 » by aaprigs311 » Mon May 19, 2008 12:11 am

DrugBust wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Exactly.

We're talking about twenty guys that have all played under-par. Yost isn't out there walking guys with the bases loaded. He isn't giving up meat balls over the heart of the plater. He's not watching strike three go by on the corner.

Braun's turned his season around in a hurry; nobody is crediting Yost for his success. Not one. But we can blame him for other's failures?

Let a fire under them...right.



Why would we credit Yost? Braun really started coming around when HIM and PRINCE asked to be switched in the order. I credit Braun.
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Post#302 » by trwi7 » Mon May 19, 2008 12:15 am

aaprigs311 wrote:I need to be hearing some excuses from Dougy Melvin right now as to why Nascar is still on the staff because I'm starting to get fed up with Melvin too.


It makes perfect sense. Yost is Melvin's security blanket. As long as Yost is still here Melvin will have a scapegoat to go to if things go bad. If Yost gets fired and the team continues to suck then all of a sudden Melvin is on the hot seat.
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Post#303 » by WEFFPIM » Mon May 19, 2008 12:18 am

I agree with you to an extent, DB. Of the four major sports, a manager in baseball has the least control over an outcome of a game scenario (pitch, hit, etc.). However, what the manager does represent more than a coach of any other sport is the mindset of the team. If the manager has the "nothing is wrong, everything is okay" mentality, then the team adapts to this, and very little changes the way they play the game. If a manager has the "we've got to stop playing like s***" mentality, then the team adapts to this. See Jim Leyland from the World Series Tigers and Lou Piniella with last year's Cubs.

You're right in that firing a manager may not have a drastic change because of how individualistic baseball is. But what it does do is change the mindset of the team.

And with Braun's recent success, you can look at today's quotes from both Braun and Yost, and see how different they are.
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Post#304 » by ReasonablySober » Mon May 19, 2008 12:21 am

aaprigs311 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Why would we credit Yost? Braun really started coming around when HIM and PRINCE asked to be switched in the order. I credit Braun.


He asked to be switched over a month ago. He's only began to got hot since last Sunday.

From the day of the switch, to just a week ago, his line was:

24 games
2 HRs
.804 OPS

That's a stretch twice as long as his stint at the #4 spot.
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Post#305 » by ReasonablySober » Mon May 19, 2008 12:23 am

WEFFPIM wrote:I agree with you to an extent, DB. Of the four major sports, a manager in baseball has the least control over an outcome of a game scenario (pitch, hit, etc.). However, what the manager does represent more than a coach of any other sport is the mindset of the team. If the manager has the "nothing is wrong, everything is okay" mentality, then the team adapts to this, and very little changes the way they play the game. If a manager has the "we've got to stop playing like s***" mentality, then the team adapts to this. See Jim Leyland from the World Series Tigers and Lou Piniella with last year's Cubs.

You're right in that firing a manager may not have a drastic change because of how individualistic baseball is. But what it does do is change the mindset of the team.

And with Braun's recent success, you can look at today's quotes from both Braun and Yost, and see how different they are.


Do we know what's going on behind closed doors? IF Yost is known for anything it's that he doesn't throw his players under the bus. He could be breaking **** in the locker room and getting on everyone's ass, but he isn't going to take it to the media.
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Post#306 » by aaprigs311 » Mon May 19, 2008 12:28 am

DrugBust wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



He asked to be switched over a month ago. He's only began to got hot since last Sunday.

From the day of the switch, to just a week ago, his line was:

24 games
2 HRs
.804 OPS

That's a stretch twice as long as his stint at the #4 spot.


His approach at the plate has been amazing different. I'm not talking about power numbers necessary. Evidently you didn't watcn much of the first couple weeks of the season. He wasn't drawing walks and was swingin' at poo every AB. I also understand your point when you say Yost has little to do with the scheme of things, yet it seems like whenever he makes an important move he fails. Whether it's wasting a pitcher in the pen or not pulling a starter in time. He rarely makes great moves.It's easy to name more bad things that he's done than good.
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Post#307 » by WEFFPIM » Mon May 19, 2008 12:32 am

You're right, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. All we can base our opinions on is what happens during games and what is said to the media. But can you sit there and say that you're okay with how Yost manages a game and handles the media?

If you're mad at three starters batting below the Mendoza Line (which obviously Yost can't control), why did it take this weekend for a switch in the lineup to occur (something which Yost controls)? What was being utilized clearly wasn't working for three starters, why not change the lineup around to find something that does work? And we can go into bullpen use if you wish, but frankly, I'm not in the mood for carpel tunnel syndrome.
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Post#308 » by Captain Erv » Mon May 19, 2008 12:40 am

WEFFPIM wrote:You're right, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. All we can base our opinions on is what happens during games and what is said to the media. But can you sit there and say that you're okay with how Yost manages a game and handles the media?

If you're mad at three starters batting below the Mendoza Line (which obviously Yost can't control), why did it take this weekend for a switch in the lineup to occur (something which Yost controls)? What was being utilized clearly wasn't working for three starters, why not change the lineup around to find something that does work? And we can go into bullpen use if you wish, but frankly, I'm not in the mood for carpel tunnel syndrome.


You know why? Because Ned Yost is too damn stubborn and too damn stupid. The only opinion he takes is his own and he does what Ned Yost thinks is best and if you question him you obviously know nothing about baseball.

I agree, not everything can be put on Yost. When you only have 2 or 3 guys who can make consistent contact and a pitching staff that belongs in Nashville you aren't going to be successful. The thing is that we've obviously gotten everything out of Yost that we are ever going to get out of him. We wouldn't have even sniffed .500 last year if it wasn't for the beginning of the season where we feasted on lollipops and everyone thought we were actually good.

The point is that there is nothing bad that can happen from firing Yost. What is going to happen? This team is already unbearable to watch. Is he going to go somewhere else and become manager of the year? It'll be a cold day in hell for that to happen.

Yost is unfairly scrutinized sometimes, but when you are small market team who only has so much of a window to be a winning team you just can't afford to be stuck in neutral. And when you have a guy like Yost who spins every problem and won't own up to any of his mistakes it just makes it clear he isn't a successful big league manager.
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Post#309 » by aaprigs311 » Mon May 19, 2008 12:49 am

Amen
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Post#310 » by WEFFPIM » Mon May 19, 2008 12:53 am

You bring up another good point in the small market thing, Erv. If Ned Yost cannot take this team into the playoffs, then the Brewers need to find someone who can, and quickly. Because this window, which opened last season, is already starting to shut. And if history is any sort of indication, this window may not open again for a very, very long time.
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Post#311 » by El Duderino » Mon May 19, 2008 1:47 am

DrugBust wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Exactly.

We're talking about twenty guys that have all played under-par. Yost isn't out there walking guys with the bases loaded. He isn't giving up meat balls over the heart of the plate. He's not watching strike three go by on the corner.

Braun's turned his season around in a hurry; nobody is crediting Yost for his success. Not one. But we can blame him for other's failures?

Light a fire under them...right.



I agree somewhat that many baseball fans overrate the importance that a manager has on the success or failure of a team in a sport that's so individual compared to a more team sport like football.

With that said, i don't think a manager is completely unimportant. Watching Yost over the years i certainly don't see him as some great thinker or a guy that has lead a team that over achieved. So while changing the manager won't suddenly make all the struggling batters hit well again, i also see no harm that would come with replacing Ned either.

Sometimes change for just change sake is good for teams in pro sports
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Post#312 » by WEFFPIM » Mon May 19, 2008 1:56 am

El Duderino wrote:Sometimes change for just change sake is good for teams in pro sports


I think this rings true is baseball more than any other sport.
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Post#313 » by El Duderino » Mon May 19, 2008 1:59 am

trwi7 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



It makes perfect sense. Yost is Melvin's security blanket. As long as Yost is still here Melvin will have a scapegoat to go to if things go bad. If Yost gets fired and the team continues to suck then all of a sudden Melvin is on the hot seat.



Overall i think Melvin has done a solid job in his six years as the GM, but i do think Doug has been overrated to a degree.

Yost gets all the heat and i'm on board with replacing Yost, but i'd have Melvin on a short leash if this season doesn't greatly improve. He'd have one more year as the GM, but if we missed the playoffs again next season, i'd look for someone else.
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Post#314 » by ACGB » Mon May 19, 2008 12:09 pm

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Post#315 » by ReasonablySober » Mon May 19, 2008 12:27 pm

It wouldn't upset me if Yost is fired. I don't know if he deserves it or not, but as is the case in most instances, the manager/coach is going to be the first one to go. I don't have a problem with that.

But this is baseball and I just don't see how a new manager is going to turn Rickie Weeks or Bill Hall into good hitters or Villanueva, Bush, Supan or [insert bullpen name here] into good pitchers.

Until those guys start performing this is going to be a long season.
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Post#316 » by Jollay » Mon May 19, 2008 1:34 pm

I was one of the first to defend Stotts when he came under what I perceived as way too much undeserved criticsm early in his stint. I have defended Yost previously, and thought some of the criticism directed at him was unwarranted and way beyond his control.

But the guy is not a good manager, period. I don't live in Wisconsin, so last year I purchased the MLB package, and often got the other announcing team's package for games.

I heard so many WTF is Yost doing, and where did he get his scouting report type remarks by the other teams' announcers, alot of which clearly knew baseball and their teams' personnel tendencies.

Yost, very often did not.

Melvin needs to take some heat this year. He gave us too many righty, same type of hitter sticks, he failed to parlay our pitching "depth" into one more actual quality starter, and his bullpen retooling effort generally has been poor. Notably Gagne and keeping Turnbow after last year when it was evident he was a headcase.
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Post#317 » by NBAGENIUS » Wed May 21, 2008 6:57 pm

This should be at the top of the forum...
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Post#318 » by ReasonablySober » Thu May 22, 2008 9:22 pm

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Post#319 » by Buck You » Fri May 23, 2008 3:14 am

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Post#320 » by JoeWolfFan » Fri May 23, 2008 3:27 am

ReddBogutCharlieV wrote:Another Fire Yost article.


The poll said 70% fire, 30% don't fire. You'll never know how I voted!!
It's a matter of opinion, and your opinion is wrong.

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