Around MLB '12-'13 (offseason signings, trades, rumors, ect)

[trwi7]

Their current starters and lineup.

Shields
Santana
Guthrie
Chen
???

Perez
Hosmer
Crap
Escobar
Moustakas
Gordon
Cain
Francoeur lol
Butler

That is just not a playoff team unless they add a couple more pieces on offense and upgrade their starters even more and make 2B and RF slightly, change that to a lot less embarrassing.

[Kerb Hohl]

Word is that they may want to move Davis back to starter, which probably isn't a good move given that he takes 2 MPH off that fastball throwing from the starting role.

Yeah, they have no outfield depth anymore and outside of Shields and Guthrie, who I like (read: like as an underrated 4th starter) that pitching staff isn't any good.

Mous and Hosmer will have to become fast superstars if they want to be good. I pegged them for maybe 78 wins, I think if everything goes right maybe 83 wins.

[WEFFPIM]

They'll go after Anibal Sanchez to round out the rotation and keep Davis in the pen. The lineup can hit the **** out of a ball and is average everywhere else. But I think that rotation can be the second best in that division, which is infinitely winnable. And a good rotation and a great pen can overcome offensive shortcomings. It's how Tampa has won the last six years.

And, frankly, how much longer can the Royals wait before attempting to compete? I get how much the people on this board are in love with prospects, but Jesus, they haven't been to the playoffs in 30 years. You gotta try at some point.

[Kerb Hohl]

Can that lineup really hit the **** out of the ball? Only Cleveland and Seattle had less runs last year in the AL.

I think the hope is that Hosmer and Mous can make a huge step and that Hosmer's massive regression wasn't as big of a deal as it seemed.

Perez is a good hitting catcher, Hosmer is the question mark, Alcides is pretty good, Moustakas looked good. In the outfield, Cain/Dyson is OK, Gordon is good, Francouer is LOL. I didn't mention second base because they have literally nothing. Giovatella was once an OK prospect but he's pretty weak at this point. Butler is obviously their best hitter now.

I get the idea of not wanting to wait it out anymore but I probably would have just put Myers at RF, overpaid 2 starting pitchers on the market like Anibel, and rolled out there with an offense that might be moving towards being stacked. Let Odorizzi or Montgomery, whoever pans out, come up later.

I think the staff is probably #3 in the division behind Detroit and the White Sox, but I get your point. Ervin Santana is not good. I think Detroit has a better regular season and wins 94 next year. I think Kansas City is lucky to break the 85 mark. I do like KC's bullpen, though.

[WEFFPIM]

I didn't say score runs. They can hit, though.

[mcfromage]

Would anyone take a flier on Capuano, Lilly, or Harang? Looks like the Dodgers rotation is pretty stacked after these signings.

[Kerb Hohl]

I didn't say score runs. They can hit, though.

What does that refer to? Their slugging was 10th in the AL. OBP 9th...

[trwi7]

Would anyone take a flier on Capuano, Lilly, or Harang? Looks like the Dodgers rotation is pretty stacked after these signings.

If those are the types of pitchers we could get I'd much rather just use our young guys.

[Siefer]

I didn't say score runs. They can hit, though.

They can hit, but they can't score runs? Even being charitable, I'm not sure what you mean by this.

The 2012 Royals:

12th in the AL in runs scored
9th in the AL in OBP
10th in the AL in slugging
8th in the AL in OPS
13th in the AL in home runs

They were 3rd in the AL in total hits, but that is nearly meaningless on its own.

I'm sympathetic to KC wanting to be relevant again, but that doesn't make this a good trade. The value of what KC sent out (especially to KC) was greater than the value they brought back.

[WEFFPIM]

The value we think they sent out is greater than what they brought in, you mean. We don't quite know what those four prospects will do. We expect certain things of them, but we don't know. We know what James Shields is. We know that's what the Royals need desperately. A reliable, top-of-the-rotation pitcher in a weak division.

It also seems that people in the American League like it, too. People that are actually involved with baseball's prospects.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/ma ... 14446.html

[Kerb Hohl]

Yeah, if Myers just ends up being a Josh Willingham type (or a total bust) then the trade favors KC. There's also the chance that Myers and then one of Odorizzi or Montgomery are absolute studs and we LOL at KC. We'll see, I guess.

That division is pretty bad but I'm not sure these trades solidify KC. Like I said, I like Guthrie, don't like Santana with whatever is wrong with him recently, and the rest of their staff is quite iffy. Offense will improve to middle of the pack, probably. I think Detroit wins 93 and KC wins like 83 in a nice season for KC.

[Siefer]

WEFFPIM, prospects still have a definable value, regardless of whether they turn out to be better or worse than projected. Where they are currently projected, defines their current value. I think it's reasonable to say that KC undersold on their farm talent relative to their current value.

[ReasonablySober]

We know that Shields has been helped by the Trop. We know that he's been the definition of a workhorse. We know that he's had one of the league's best defenses the last couple seasons. We don't know what he will be.

WEFFPIM, you asked how much longer they should wait. I would have said at least one more year. If you put Myers in RF and remove Francoeur you might make up the win difference alone had they not made that trade. But more importantly you would see how the rest of the team does without screwing over the future of your club. The Royals have a lot of pitching on the way, and it was set to line up with what they hope is a really good offense in '14.

But Moore and the rest of the regime couldn't wait that long because their jobs were on the line, so they **** their future to save their own asses.

[Kerb Hohl]

While Shields was helped by the Trop (and a really good defense) I'd almost cancel that out when I think about the Yankees, Red Sox (not back-end of last year), Jays, and O's to an extent over the last 5 years coming to town and also having to pitch in all of those crackerboxes.

I don't like the trade, but I do think the Trop factor has to be looked at with what he faces. Kansas City slightly favors the pitcher and the offense in the AL Central is so-so, but not what the AL East normally is.

[WEFFPIM]

We know that Shields has been helped by the Trop. We know that he's been the definition of a workhorse. We know that he's had one of the league's best defenses the last couple seasons. We don't know what he will be.

WEFFPIM, you asked how much longer they should wait. I would have said at least one more year. If you put Myers in RF and remove Francoeur you might make up the win difference alone had they not made that trade. But more importantly you would see how the rest of the team does without screwing over the future of your club. The Royals have a lot of pitching on the way, and it was set to line up with what they hope is a really good offense in '14.

But Moore and the rest of the regime couldn't wait that long because their jobs were on the line, so they **** their future to save their own asses.

But if they still have pitching on the way, and the majority of that young lineup is locked up, how are they ****ed?

[Kerb Hohl]

Not saying I like the Twins this year, but I like what they're doing.

Worley is probably a #3 guy that doesn't K a ton (right in their mold), Diamond a #3/#4, Gibson has the potential to be a #2 of Tommy John, and then they are signing some #4/#5 types like Correia. Obviously, this is not for this year but they finally are rebuilding and only buying short-term fill-ins and not counting on trash like Nick Suckburn.

I don't think they're going to win a Wild Card or anything but I do think that if they stay mostly healthy that they may challenge the Royals and White Sox for who loses the division to Detroit by 7 games.

[ReasonablySober]

We know that Shields has been helped by the Trop. We know that he's been the definition of a workhorse. We know that he's had one of the league's best defenses the last couple seasons. We don't know what he will be.

WEFFPIM, you asked how much longer they should wait. I would have said at least one more year. If you put Myers in RF and remove Francoeur you might make up the win difference alone had they not made that trade. But more importantly you would see how the rest of the team does without screwing over the future of your club. The Royals have a lot of pitching on the way, and it was set to line up with what they hope is a really good offense in '14.

But Moore and the rest of the regime couldn't wait that long because their jobs were on the line, so they **** their future to save their own asses.

But if they still have pitching on the way, and the majority of that young lineup is locked up, how are they ****ed?

I should revise my statement. It's possible that they win 82 games next season. Maybe the division collapses and they make the playoffs. I really doubt that but who knows.

It's just that I think they could have gotten better without making so many stupid moves. In a vacuum the deal doesn't look good. But it's when you look at everything else they've done recently that it really looks bad.

Francouer was one of MLB's worst last season. Take him out and put in Myers and you've probably added four wins right there.

Ervin Santana and Jeremie Guthrie? Terrible. If you don't make those two moves and then don't tender Hochevar a contract you've just freed up enough money to go after a Shields level starter in free agency and you don't even have to give up any prospects.

It just seems like the Royals zeroed in on WE NEED AN "ACE" instead of being creative and/or patient in finding more wins.

[Kerb Hohl]

Guthrie really isn't that bad. I actually think they maybe overpaid him by 2-3 million and his production can be replaced by intelligent GM-work, but everyone freaking out about Guthrie's contract needs to look at his Coors numbers last year. Everything else is solid production.

He's been a consistent 2.5 WAR pitcher the last few years outside of his stint in Coors. That's not bad. Would have put him in the Milone, Maholm, Masterson, Diamond, Niese area of being about the 40-50 range of MLB pitchers. 2.5 WAR would be right behind Gallardo's 2.7 this past year.

3/25 is actually a market value deal there. Obviously, he has to worry about his defense and ballpark more than somebody like Yovani, but he's not bad to slot at #3 instead of the trash they had.

[trwi7]

Now that the Royals have signed Willy Taveras, my guess is he gets entirely too much playing time.

[Kerb Hohl]

From the other thread, since this probably seems to be the "all other teams" thread, "what the hell is Arizona doing?"