2014 Discussion Thread

trwi7 · Post #41 » by **trwi7** » Wed May 29, 2013 7:08 pm

Fangraphs did a piece on this yesterday.

Our "Big Five" are the best in baseball. .323/.384/.532, .393 wOBA, 153 wRC+, 8.7 WAR in 875 PA.

Everyone else is just awful though. .200/.256/.304, .249 wOBA, 52 wRC+, -3.3 WAR in 855 PA.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/when-sta ... esnt-work/

trwi7 · Post #42 » by **trwi7** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:22 pm

Fonz (Milwaukee)

If Mark Attanasio decides to can Doug Melvin, how worried should Brewers fans be that Attanasio's distaste for rebuilding will just lead to Ed Wade 2.0? Terrified of the long, agonizing slide into mediocrity that we've seen here before.

Klaw
(1:48 PM)

That is a concern - he needs to accept that the Brewers are a rebuild situation. They've got the third worst record in baseball, and one of the worst farm systems, and no first round pick this year.

Norman (NY)

Who's to blame for the Brewer's horrible drafts of the last 5 years? Any reason to believe things can change in the next year or 2?

Klaw
(1:52 PM)

Looks systemic - like the process hasn't worked for them, unfortunately. I heard last week that the year they took Covey (and he chose not to sign), one of their top alternatives was Jesse Biddle.

Kerb Hohl · Post #43 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:57 pm

I think Attanasio will allow Melvin to sell at this deadline.

If he fires Melvin, they should gut their scouting/development department as well or first.

Post #44 » by **ReasonablySober** » Fri May 31, 2013 12:25 pm

Waiting until the deadline would be so, so stupid. If the season is lost, and it is (particularly because of the division [three NL Central teams with the best records in the league? Nuts]), then they should get going on the fire-sale now. I doubt they could get in a position to take Rodon, but it would be hella sweet to re-draft the guy we took in 2011.

coolhandluke121 · Post #45 » by **coolhandluke121** » Fri May 31, 2013 5:34 pm

Don't you get a little more value the sooner you trade guys, too? Giving a contender an extra 30 games with A-Ram, Aoki, Lohse, or even Yo can be what it takes to convince them to part with a good prospect.

Post #46 » by **jr lucosa** » Fri May 31, 2013 5:45 pm

Yeah, have a fire sale Miami Marlins style minus Braun and Yo and start selling ASAP.

Even Yo if the price is right.

Kerb Hohl · Post #47 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Fri May 31, 2013 6:07 pm

Absolutely I'd trade earlier than the deadline.

Gallardo's velocity is down so I'd like to ship him ASAP.

NeedsMoreCheese · Post #48 » by **NeedsMoreCheese** » Fri May 31, 2013 6:08 pm

Keep Segura, Braun and GoGo, get whatever you can for the rest of this mess.

Siefer · Post #49 » by **Siefer** » Fri May 31, 2013 7:44 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Absolutely I'd trade earlier than the deadline.

Gallardo's velocity is down so I'd like to ship him ASAP.

Agreed on Yo - I'd ship him for a solid return today. His FB is down 2-3 mph, and it's not showing signs of recovering. I think we might have already seen the best he's got to offer.

At this point, I'm really hoping Melvin and Mark A have the guts and the foresight for a fire sale. Yes, attendance will suffer this year, and probably next, but we stand a better chance of coming back strong in 2015 than salvaging this roster.

coolhandluke121 · Post #50 » by **coolhandluke121** » Fri May 31, 2013 8:55 pm

Obviously you can't trade Braun, but at the same time it's pretty hard to justify a rebuild because he made the commitment to stay in part based on Mark A's commitment to winning. It's hard to see how a rebuild can be reconciled with having Braun in his prime.

Remember when the Brewers had arguably the best farm system in baseball? When Weeks, Hart, Prince, Yo, Rogers, Parra, Gamel, LaPorta, and Braun were all potential superstars? We didn't get anywhere close to our money's worth on that. We suffered for years to build that farm system, and while Mark A gets a lot of credit for turning Milwaukee into a winner (or, more accurately, a non-loser), I think he actually botched it pretty bad considering how much talent he inherited. I may in the minority on that, but they either should have had 1-2 more really good seasons like 2011 or should have been able to extend their window of being above average for at least 5 more years, which gives you chances to make the playoffs more often.

trwi7 · Post #51 » by **trwi7** » Fri May 31, 2013 9:00 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:Don't you get a little more value the sooner you trade guys, too? Giving a contender an extra 30 games with A-Ram, Aoki, Lohse, or even Yo can be what it takes to convince them to part with a good prospect.

Not necessarily more value but there are only a certain number of quality prospects that are going to be available. If you wait while other teams start selling, you're going to be left out in the cold and either have to take a lesser deal or keep them.

wichmae · Post #52 » by **wichmae** » Fri May 31, 2013 9:09 pm

Yeah its always better to be proactive rather than reactive.

Kerb Hohl · Post #53 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Fri May 31, 2013 10:01 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:Obviously you can't trade Braun, but at the same time it's pretty hard to justify a rebuild because he made the commitment to stay in part based on Mark A's commitment to winning. It's hard to see how a rebuild can be reconciled with having Braun in his prime.

Remember when the Brewers had arguably the best farm system in baseball? When Weeks, Hart, Prince, Yo, Rogers, Parra, Gamel, LaPorta, and Braun were all potential superstars? We didn't get anywhere close to our money's worth on that. We suffered for years to build that farm system, and while Mark A gets a lot of credit for turning Milwaukee into a winner (or, more accurately, a non-loser), I think he actually botched it pretty bad considering how much talent he inherited. I may in the minority on that, but they either should have had 1-2 more really good seasons like 2011 or should have been able to extend their window of being above average for at least 5 more years, which gives you chances to make the playoffs more often.

I was hoping he was fired with the Suppan, (somewhat) Wolf, counting on Yuni, etc. moves but outside of Melvin becoming an arm surgeon, how would you have gone about opening up a bigger window post 2011 run?

The player development and drafting is horrible and Melvin has done a bad job at getting bullpen guys and sometimes filling out the rotation with vets, but on the whole, he's made great trades/signings.

Post #54 » by **ReasonablySober** » Fri May 31, 2013 10:08 pm

Kohl Is A Mome wrote:Keep Segura, Braun and GoGo, get whatever you can for the rest of this mess.

I'd even trade GoGo for the right set of prospects. His value has to be absurd.

trwi7 · Post #55 » by **trwi7** » Fri May 31, 2013 10:13 pm

Anyone should be available for the right package. That includes Braun.

Siefer · Post #56 » by **Siefer** » Fri May 31, 2013 10:15 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Kohl Is A Mome wrote:Keep Segura, Braun and GoGo, get whatever you can for the rest of this mess.

I'd even trade GoGo for the right set of prospects. His value has to be absurd.

We have 3 more years of GoGo after this one, right?

That's a tough one, but if we could build a package around an elite prospect+, we should consider it.

blazza18 · Post #57 » by **blazza18** » Fri May 31, 2013 10:17 pm

Melvin on 1250 earlier didn't really sound like a GM that is ready to sell.

Kohl Is A Mome wrote:Keep Segura, Braun and GoGo, get whatever you can for the rest of this mess.

Yes to this.

NeedsMoreCheese · Post #58 » by **NeedsMoreCheese** » Fri May 31, 2013 10:19 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Kohl Is A Mome wrote:Keep Segura, Braun and GoGo, get whatever you can for the rest of this mess.

I'd even trade GoGo for the right set of prospects. His value has to be absurd.

I understand the reasoning behind trading GoGo I just don't want to do it. I don't know if we have anything competent to replace him and I've always been a fan of him since we got him (just something about the way he plays the game). Not to mention the guy is still only 27 years old (to put that in perspective, hes only 2 years older than Josh Prince and Khris Davis). Add to that his extremely reasonable deal for his production and it doesn't make sense for a small market team to dump him.

The only way you trade Gomez is if you feel he can't maintain his improved performance and will have a huge regression. I just don't see that happening.

raysbookclub · Post #59 » by **raysbookclub** » Sun Jun 2, 2013 2:25 am

coolhandluke121 wrote:Remember when the Brewers had arguably the best farm system in baseball? When Weeks, Hart, Prince, Yo, Rogers, Parra, Gamel, LaPorta, and Braun were all potential superstars? We didn't get anywhere close to our money's worth on that. We suffered for years to build that farm system, and while Mark A gets a lot of credit for turning Milwaukee into a winner (or, more accurately, a non-loser), I think he actually botched it pretty bad considering how much talent he inherited. I may in the minority on that, but they either should have had 1-2 more really good seasons like 2011 or should have been able to extend their window of being above average for at least 5 more years, which gives you chances to make the playoffs more often.

They definitely could have had 1-2 more playoff seasons. They blew it down the stretch the year before their first playoff appearance; they really should have made it that year. Macha was a disaster. You have to wonder if things would have been different those seasons had a different manager been chosen.

The year we lost to the Phillies, too, if Sheets hadn't gotten hurt and Gallardo too, even though he pitched a bit of relief in the playoffs. If the October rotation could have been Sabathia-Sheets-Gallardo, that's a World Series team.

bullox · Post #60 » by **bullox** » Sun Jun 2, 2013 4:06 am

blazza18 wrote:Melvin on 1250 earlier didn't really sound like a GM that is ready to sell.
.

Melvin is adept at the art of obfuscation. Announcing your plans to the press only weakens your leverage.