2018 Brewers Discussion - Yelich Signing on Page 45

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm not specifically advocating for LoMo, but he seems like one of the launch angle guys that is excelling with the new juiced ball. He increased his FB% drastically last year and that has attributed to more HR.

The Brewers eventually will want to be the Astros (complete transformation, went from high K% to low K% over the past 3 years, while being a good team all along) or Cleveland with more playoff-caliber, less streaky hitters. For now, if they can get more pitching and add cheap runs to get them to the playoffs, I'll take it.

[DingleJerry]

I'm not specifically advocating for LoMo, but he seems like one of the launch angle guys that is excelling with the new juiced ball. He increased his FB% drastically last year and that has attributed to more HR.

The Brewers eventually will want to be the Astros (complete transformation, went from high K% to low K% over the past 3 years, while being a good team all along) or Cleveland with more playoff-caliber, less streaky hitters. For now, if they can get more pitching and add cheap runs to get them to the playoffs, I'll take it.

Why not just take the Cain money and buy a pitcher? I'd guess after Darvish goes to the Cubs today or tomorrow that the dominoes start falling. have to think they're looking at Cain somewhere in the 14-20 per year window, should be the same ballpark as the Ps after Darvish/Arrieta. And it's been reported only one team would go beyond 4 years for Darvish, so these other guys aren't getting anything more than that either. Sure I suppose pitching is more volatile than an OF but if you're just looking at 3-4 year commitments it's not too crazy. I guess I just don't think Cain is thaaat good to gamble on him still being solid when he hits 35 years old. Especially when you have Santan already for 5 years and your top two prospects to take over CF, OF isn't even a weakness.

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm not specifically advocating for LoMo, but he seems like one of the launch angle guys that is excelling with the new juiced ball. He increased his FB% drastically last year and that has attributed to more HR.

The Brewers eventually will want to be the Astros (complete transformation, went from high K% to low K% over the past 3 years, while being a good team all along) or Cleveland with more playoff-caliber, less streaky hitters. For now, if they can get more pitching and add cheap runs to get them to the playoffs, I'll take it.

Why not just take the Cain money and buy a pitcher? I'd guess after Darvish goes to the Cubs today or tomorrow that the dominoes start falling. have to think they're looking at Cain somewhere in the 14-20 per year window, should be the same ballpark as the Ps after Darvish/Arrieta. And it's been reported only one team would go beyond 4 years for Darvish, so these other guys aren't getting anything more than that either. Sure I suppose pitching is more volatile than an OF but if you're just looking at 3-4 year commitments it's not too crazy. I guess I just don't think Cain is thaaat good to gamble on him still being solid when he hits 35 years old. Especially when you have Santan already for 5 years and your top two prospects to take over CF, OF isn't even a weakness.

I'm not against that, either. I've personally been a fan of only spending FA money and not making any trades. I like the Santana idea because you can still get young players or prospects for him in these scenarios. The last thing I want is to dump a ton of younger assets into a win-now player via trade.

I think the idea is that with Santana you've got someone that the Brewers don't like as much for their longterm plans and you can get a similarly controllable, talented younger player as Santana AND have a valuable current player short-term like Cain to bridge the gap. I don't think the Brewers would sign Cain to a contract that gets him to 35 years old (3 years would fall just short). If they do, they'd know that he'd be transitioned to a backup at that point.

You're getting all excited about Abreu's ability to contact the ball, and that's exactly what Lorenzo Cain brings. He's about the same age as Abreu, but if it's a 3-year commitment, you should be pretty confident that you'll get pretty good production for 2 or maybe all 3. I know that Abreu is a 1B so he can age better, but Abreu is already terrible at defense. Cain can probably be a good or great RF for 3 years that also plays some CF.

[DingleJerry]

I'm not specifically advocating for LoMo, but he seems like one of the launch angle guys that is excelling with the new juiced ball. He increased his FB% drastically last year and that has attributed to more HR.

The Brewers eventually will want to be the Astros (complete transformation, went from high K% to low K% over the past 3 years, while being a good team all along) or Cleveland with more playoff-caliber, less streaky hitters. For now, if they can get more pitching and add cheap runs to get them to the playoffs, I'll take it.

Why not just take the Cain money and buy a pitcher? I'd guess after Darvish goes to the Cubs today or tomorrow that the dominoes start falling. have to think they're looking at Cain somewhere in the 14-20 per year window, should be the same ballpark as the Ps after Darvish/Arrieta. And it's been reported only one team would go beyond 4 years for Darvish, so these other guys aren't getting anything more than that either. Sure I suppose pitching is more volatile than an OF but if you're just looking at 3-4 year commitments it's not too crazy. I guess I just don't think Cain is thaaat good to gamble on him still being solid when he hits 35 years old. Especially when you have Santan already for 5 years and your top two prospects to take over CF, OF isn't even a weakness.

I'm not against that, either. I've personally been a fan of only spending FA money and not making any trades. I like the Santana idea because you can still get young players or prospects for him in these scenarios. The last thing I want is to dump a ton of younger assets into a win-now player via trade.

I think the idea is that with Santana you've got someone that the Brewers don't like as much for their longterm plans and you can get a similarly controllable, talented younger player as Santana AND have a valuable current player short-term like Cain to bridge the gap. I don't think the Brewers would sign Cain to a contract that gets him to 35 years old (3 years would fall just short). If they do, they'd know that he'd be transitioned to a backup at that point.

You're getting all excited about Abreu's ability to contact the ball, and that's exactly what Lorenzo Cain brings. He's about the same age as Abreu, but if it's a 3-year commitment, you should be pretty confident that you'll get pretty good production for 2 or maybe all 3. I know that Abreu is a 1B so he can age better, but Abreu is already terrible at defense. Cain can probably be a good or great RF for 3 years that also plays some CF.

Cain also hits like 15 HRs per year, sure plays a tougher D spot right now but how's he gonna be at that as he ages. He's just a solid player to me, nothing to jump through hoops for like they seem to be doing. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the rookie CF gives comparable production, less contact I'm sure but likely more power to balance and just as good D or better.

Your view on a Santana trade is something I can understand more, in that the other team would be kicking in other stuff to us rather than the other way around. From the stuff I'm seeing, it doesn't seem that way though. We'd be giving up Santana and prospects for a P. And then sign a questionable contract to Cain. I just can't get behind something like that. Sure, I'll wait to see the details but on the general surface I just go wtf, Santana was our most consistent or 2nd most last year and one of the few guys down the stretch you could trust. He does K a lot but gets a ton of walks. So just keep him and buy a P if it makes sense.

[Kerb Hohl]

Why not just take the Cain money and buy a pitcher? I'd guess after Darvish goes to the Cubs today or tomorrow that the dominoes start falling. have to think they're looking at Cain somewhere in the 14-20 per year window, should be the same ballpark as the Ps after Darvish/Arrieta. And it's been reported only one team would go beyond 4 years for Darvish, so these other guys aren't getting anything more than that either. Sure I suppose pitching is more volatile than an OF but if you're just looking at 3-4 year commitments it's not too crazy. I guess I just don't think Cain is thaaat good to gamble on him still being solid when he hits 35 years old. Especially when you have Santan already for 5 years and your top two prospects to take over CF, OF isn't even a weakness.

I'm not against that, either. I've personally been a fan of only spending FA money and not making any trades. I like the Santana idea because you can still get young players or prospects for him in these scenarios. The last thing I want is to dump a ton of younger assets into a win-now player via trade.

I think the idea is that with Santana you've got someone that the Brewers don't like as much for their longterm plans and you can get a similarly controllable, talented younger player as Santana AND have a valuable current player short-term like Cain to bridge the gap. I don't think the Brewers would sign Cain to a contract that gets him to 35 years old (3 years would fall just short). If they do, they'd know that he'd be transitioned to a backup at that point.

You're getting all excited about Abreu's ability to contact the ball, and that's exactly what Lorenzo Cain brings. He's about the same age as Abreu, but if it's a 3-year commitment, you should be pretty confident that you'll get pretty good production for 2 or maybe all 3. I know that Abreu is a 1B so he can age better, but Abreu is already terrible at defense. Cain can probably be a good or great RF for 3 years that also plays some CF.

Cain also hits like 15 HRs per year, sure plays a tougher D spot right now but how's he gonna be at that as he ages. He's just a solid player to me, nothing to jump through hoops for like they seem to be doing.

Your view on a Santana trade is something I can understand more, in that the other team would be kicking in other stuff to us rather than the other way around. From the stuff I'm seeing, it doesn't seem that way though. We'd be giving up Santana and prospects for a P. And then sign a questionable contract to Cain. I just can't get behind something like that. Sure, I'll wait to see the details but on the general surface I just go wtf, Santana was our most consistent or 2nd most last year and one of the few guys down the stretch you could trust. He does K a lot but gets a ton of walks. So just keep him and buy a P if it makes sense.

Cain also stole 26 bases last year and was a good/great defender. On the whole, he brings what Abreu does.

Here's the point: Trade Brinson for Abreu and you've got Abreu for 2 years and probably win 85 games twice.

Trade Santana (and something less) for a pitcher and sign Cain and maybe you win 85 games twice still, but you've got said pitcher for another 2-4 years and you've still got Brinson/and or other OF around to take over for Cain and Braun.

[DingleJerry]

Spoiler:

I'm not against that, either. I've personally been a fan of only spending FA money and not making any trades. I like the Santana idea because you can still get young players or prospects for him in these scenarios. The last thing I want is to dump a ton of younger assets into a win-now player via trade.

I think the idea is that with Santana you've got someone that the Brewers don't like as much for their longterm plans and you can get a similarly controllable, talented younger player as Santana AND have a valuable current player short-term like Cain to bridge the gap. I don't think the Brewers would sign Cain to a contract that gets him to 35 years old (3 years would fall just short). If they do, they'd know that he'd be transitioned to a backup at that point.

You're getting all excited about Abreu's ability to contact the ball, and that's exactly what Lorenzo Cain brings. He's about the same age as Abreu, but if it's a 3-year commitment, you should be pretty confident that you'll get pretty good production for 2 or maybe all 3. I know that Abreu is a 1B so he can age better, but Abreu is already terrible at defense. Cain can probably be a good or great RF for 3 years that also plays some CF.

Cain also hits like 15 HRs per year, sure plays a tougher D spot right now but how's he gonna be at that as he ages. He's just a solid player to me, nothing to jump through hoops for like they seem to be doing.

Your view on a Santana trade is something I can understand more, in that the other team would be kicking in other stuff to us rather than the other way around. From the stuff I'm seeing, it doesn't seem that way though. We'd be giving up Santana and prospects for a P. And then sign a questionable contract to Cain. I just can't get behind something like that. Sure, I'll wait to see the details but on the general surface I just go wtf, Santana was our most consistent or 2nd most last year and one of the few guys down the stretch you could trust. He does K a lot but gets a ton of walks. So just keep him and buy a P if it makes sense.

Cain also stole 26 bases last year and was a good/great defender. On the whole, he brings what Abreu does.

Here's the point: Trade Brinson for Abreu and you've got Abreu for 2 years and probably win 85 games twice.

Trade Santana (and something less) for a pitcher and sign Cain and maybe you win 85 games twice still, but you've got said pitcher for another 2-4 years and you've still got Brinson/and or other OF around to take over for Cain and Braun.

How many times do I have to say the Abreu thing isn't even something I'm pushing, it's merely a trade value discussion. Keep in mind for what you just said is that you'd still have Santana, who you know is good whereas you don't know on Brinson.

I'm talking about the real scenario here. The P you get for Santana could also only be 2-3 years (just like you fear with Abreu) Archer is the best case scenario and he's got 4 years on his deal, nobody else proven will have that control. That has to be the target to make it worth moving Santana, 4 years of cheap control on a solid #2 level guy. But similar to your fear on Abreu of not having Brinson, in this trade not only do you not have Santana but also a couple other prospects, likely at least one P prospect too. This is a very risky route, much moreso than just paying 3/55 for a mid level Cobb type pitcher.

[Kerb Hohl]

Spoiler:

Cain also hits like 15 HRs per year, sure plays a tougher D spot right now but how's he gonna be at that as he ages. He's just a solid player to me, nothing to jump through hoops for like they seem to be doing.

Your view on a Santana trade is something I can understand more, in that the other team would be kicking in other stuff to us rather than the other way around. From the stuff I'm seeing, it doesn't seem that way though. We'd be giving up Santana and prospects for a P. And then sign a questionable contract to Cain. I just can't get behind something like that. Sure, I'll wait to see the details but on the general surface I just go wtf, Santana was our most consistent or 2nd most last year and one of the few guys down the stretch you could trust. He does K a lot but gets a ton of walks. So just keep him and buy a P if it makes sense.

Cain also stole 26 bases last year and was a good/great defender. On the whole, he brings what Abreu does.

Here's the point: Trade Brinson for Abreu and you've got Abreu for 2 years and probably win 85 games twice.

Trade Santana (and something less) for a pitcher and sign Cain and maybe you win 85 games twice still, but you've got said pitcher for another 2-4 years and you've still got Brinson/and or other OF around to take over for Cain and Braun.

How many times do I have to say the Abreu thing isn't even something I'm pushing, it's merely a trade value discussion. Keep in mind for what you just said is that you'd still have Santana, who you know is good whereas you don't know on Brinson.

I'm talking about the real scenario here. The P you get for Santana could also only be 2-3 years (just like you fear with Abreu) Archer is the best case scenario and he's got 4 years on his deal, nobody else proven will have that control. That has to be the target to make it worth moving Santana, 4 years of cheap control on a solid #2 level guy. But similar to your fear on Abreu of not having Brinson, in this trade not only do you not have Santana but also a couple other prospects, likely at least one P prospect too. This is a very risky route, much moreso than just paying 3/55 for a mid level Cobb type pitcher.

I'd definitely prefer the FA route. I think if they deal Santana, it's for someone equally or longer controlled. And I'd even be OK if it's for a 3 year pitcher (Salazar) rather than a 2 year bat, of which we have nearly platoonable production matched.

[DingleJerry]

Spoiler:

Cain also stole 26 bases last year and was a good/great defender. On the whole, he brings what Abreu does.

Here's the point: Trade Brinson for Abreu and you've got Abreu for 2 years and probably win 85 games twice.

Trade Santana (and something less) for a pitcher and sign Cain and maybe you win 85 games twice still, but you've got said pitcher for another 2-4 years and you've still got Brinson/and or other OF around to take over for Cain and Braun.

How many times do I have to say the Abreu thing isn't even something I'm pushing, it's merely a trade value discussion. Keep in mind for what you just said is that you'd still have Santana, who you know is good whereas you don't know on Brinson.

I'm talking about the real scenario here. The P you get for Santana could also only be 2-3 years (just like you fear with Abreu) Archer is the best case scenario and he's got 4 years on his deal, nobody else proven will have that control. That has to be the target to make it worth moving Santana, 4 years of cheap control on a solid #2 level guy. But similar to your fear on Abreu of not having Brinson, in this trade not only do you not have Santana but also a couple other prospects, likely at least one P prospect too. This is a very risky route, much moreso than just paying 3/55 for a mid level Cobb type pitcher.

I'd definitely prefer the FA route. I think if they deal Santana, it's for someone equally or longer controlled. And I'd even be OK if it's for a 3 year pitcher (Salazar) rather than a 2 year bat, of which we have nearly platoonable production matched.

Yea to me Salazar and Archer are the only two I've seen so far who on the surface I could get behind on giving up the control of Santana. But I'd still be worried what else we have to throw in. But look at Salazar and he's not really proven. Archer is and has been consistent and healthy, I've seen him pitch much more so I trust his 'stuff' as being better than his 4.0 era the last couple years (and of course NL will help). But the upside and control on both I can at least see the logic as long as we don't have to kick in a bunch more. Just seems so much easier to sign Cobb for 3-4 years, he can't be demanding more than 15 mil per year, but I guess we'll know more once we see Darvish's deal.

[dbrodz7]

Major development from the Brewers https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2018/01/23/klements-out-sponsor-racing-sausages/1058288001/

[tski1972]

Major development from the Brewers https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2018/01/23/klements-out-sponsor-racing-sausages/1058288001/

Completely unacceptable.

[DingleJerry]

Major development from the Brewers https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2018/01/23/klements-out-sponsor-racing-sausages/1058288001/

Ahh, that was the big transaction that's been rumored. Must be going with Usinger's, it's just not summer without 'em.

[MickeyDavis]

I'm assuming Usinger's too. Klements is owned by a private equity firm out of San Francisco. Usinger's is still owned by Usingers.

[DingleJerry]

Johnsonville also is an obvious choice, has to be one of the two. I'd put my money on Johnsonville.

[dbrodz7]

I'd put my money on Usinger's based on past comments from a chef I know that works there. Over the year's he's talked about how much more he likes Usinger's than Klements.

[ReasonablySober]

I've never understood why people buy anything other than Johnsonville. It's so much better than anything else around, other than the hyper-local butchers.

[Kerb Hohl]

bf.net "insider" says the major trade that was going to kick off others is dead. I am not shocked that the offseason will end with a dud.

I don't really care from a long-term Brewers standpoint, but in terms of something fun in a dead period, I is disappoint if they don't do much the rest of the offseason.

[crkone]

I've never understood why people buy anything other than Johnsonville. It's so much better than anything else around, other than the hyper-local butchers.

I get mine specially shipped on dry ice from Sheboygan brat company.

[DingleJerry]

bf.net "insider" says the major trade that was going to kick off others is dead. I am not shocked that the offseason will end with a dud.

I don't really care from a long-term Brewers standpoint, but in terms of something fun in a dead period, I is disappoint if they don't do much the rest of the offseason.

Yea I'd be fun just sticking to the long term route rather than some of the crazy stuff being thrown around. Probably keep kicking the tires on a guy like Cobb and see what happens just in case, I fear Lance Lynn's past fatness and being an ex Card on any longer term deal.

But other than that maybe grab another stopgap pitcher along the lines of what they did with Chacin to fill in with Nelson out a while and to have in case of injuries. A guy who'll take one or two year deal, your Jaime Garcia Cashner types. Just innings eaters with no long term risk and assuming we don't have to forfeit a pick for whoever it is. Not really even sure they need that with guys like Gallardo Guerra Suter there already, but that's probably the furthest I'd go. Otherwise just stay the course, it's working fine.

[bizarro]

bf.net "insider" says the major trade that was going to kick off others is dead. I am not shocked that the offseason will end with a dud.

I don't really care from a long-term Brewers standpoint, but in terms of something fun in a dead period, I is disappoint if they don't do much the rest of the offseason.

Yea I'd be fun just sticking to the long term route rather than some of the crazy stuff being thrown around. Probably keep kicking the tires on a guy like Cobb and see what happens just in case, I fear Lance Lynn's past fatness and being an ex Card on any longer term deal.

But other than that maybe grab another stopgap pitcher along the lines of what they did with Chacin to fill in with Nelson out a while and to have in case of injuries. A guy who'll take one or two year deal, your Jaime Garcia Cashner types. Just innings eaters with no long term risk and assuming we don't have to forfeit a pick for whoever it is. Not really even sure they need that with guys like Gallardo Guerra Suter there already, but that's probably the furthest I'd go. Otherwise just stay the course, it's working fine.

To be fair and clear, I would add that he mentioned the deal has been nixed because of a current impasse of taking on more salary but demanding a better prospect in return. He said, as such, it was 'on hold'. With that caveat, they've moved in another unknown direction - FA or trade. So, who really knows. Obviously, the excitement of the past few days is coming to a screech.

[ReasonablySober]

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I don't know who Mish is or why he'd have a source and other national guys don't. Just passing it along.