Braun tests positive for PED | Presser update pg. 42

[paulpressey25]

It gets absorbed into his body. Whether it's a pill, injection, cream or whatever - it all ends up entering his body. So I doubt he's going to use the phrase "entering my body" to dance around whether or not he used a PED.

It could mean "enter" as in absorb. But you could also put someone on the stand and have them say that in all honesty they thought enter meant orally or via injection.

I realize others may not take issue with the wording. But it is unusual wording that has a lawyer overtone to it. If you didn't use PED's, just say I've never used PED's. This is why I was disappointed in the media questions. No one asked him specifically if he's ever used PED's. I don't remember the specifics here, but we've all heard interesting answers to that particular question by guys like McGuire, Raffy, Sammy, etc.

And not to go political, but as noted earlier, we had a former US President claim in court testimony that there were different definitions to the word "is", contrary to the popular understanding of the use of that word.

[paulpressey25]

The guy who handles drug tests said when he did them they could only hold them for 4 hours before it had to be dropped off at Fed Ex or the lab (depending on the distance). If it was held for longer than 4 hours, they had to re-test. Also said you could very easily tamper with the test and make it look like it wasn't tampered with.

This is the best point for Braun. I'd like to know how many tests that this collector administered over the six-years he was doing it. 50? 250? 500?

You'd have to know exactly which Fed Ex stations were open at a number of locations in Southeastern Wisconsin in order to have done your job correctly at any time in the past six years. To plead that he didn't think any were open or didn't know where to go on a Saturday begs a lot of questions.

[jimmybones]

Every guy who uses PED's does so knowing they might get caught. I think they do constant testing during the Tour de France, don't they?

I know your angle is that Braun isn't the type of guy who would chance juicing and he didn't turn giant like Jason Giambi. But I don't think those arguments are compelling given we've seen guys like A-Rod and Lance Armstrong use them also.

The real compelling argument is the 44-hours. I'd like to see the transcript of any deposition that Dino gave. Some report back on Friday tried to claim that holding the samples was standard practice for Dino but I haven't heard that reference any time since then. Wouldn't be that hard for someone to tamper with it IMO.

I also still don't understand why they are giving the lab a complete pass here unless somehow they have photographic proof of the sealed samples arriving at the lab.

Fair enough. I still think the fact of it being the playoffs and knowing a test has to be close makes it a little different. Unless he was really hurt and the cream made a dramatic difference in his physical well being, I can't wrap my head around the risk vs reward here.

[humanrefutation]

You know, I get why people are speculating as to how Braun got off and whether he was actually juicing. I also get that speculation is a major part of a story where some key facts are a relative mystery.

That being said, I wish people would stop forming opinions, or judgments, based on speculation. For example, those who think Braun juiced, or did not juice, based on pure speculation. All we know, for certain, is that Braun was found innocent of using PEDs.

(By the way, those who say he was found not guilty are completely misconstruing the nature of the appeal, because in order for Braun to win he had to prove to Das, a neutral arbitrator, that he didn't use PEDs. The only evidence of his usage was deemed unreliable.)

Does that mean we know he was clean? No. But we have no reliable evidence which says otherwise. So, speculate if you wish, but we're probably never going to know for sure and I think it's important to acknowledge that fact when we reflect on this fiasco.

[emunney]

Great point. Really, the only way we'd know is if Braun admitted it, or if somebody admitted to tampering with the sample. Even if somebody tampered with the sample, it wouldn't prove that Braun has never done PEDs. In most cases it's functionally impossible to prove a negative.

[MickeyDavis]

I don't know what Dino and his kid did/didn't do but the media was showing up at his house over the weekend (no answer), calling him (no response) and I'm sure today they will be at his job, if he shows up. Plus the reports that he's a Cubs fan.

[sidney lanier]

I don't know what Dino and his kid did/didn't do but the media was showing up at his house over the weekend (no answer), calling him (no response) and I'm sure today they will be at his job, if he shows up. Plus the reports that he's a Cubs fan.

Cubs fan or not, he probably doesn't deserve having his life disrupted over this, not to mention the prospect of spending big bucks for his legal defense if things get nasty. He and every other pee-collecting subcontractor has got to be thinking this morning that the few bucks you get for watching ballplayers take a leak isn't worth it.

Which kind of makes you wonder why this greatest of all the drug enforcement programs in all the sports in all the world, as ass-covering MLB officials are now characterizing it, is using subs in the first place.

[DigitalFool]

I don't know what Dino and his kid did/didn't do but the media was showing up at his house over the weekend (no answer), calling him (no response) and I'm sure today they will be at his job, if he shows up. Plus the reports that he's a Cubs fan.

They were already there Friday night. I think the hospital released some sort of statement if I recall.

[WEFFPIM]

Jeff "Holier Than Thou" Passan chimes in

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... one_022712

[El Duderino]

Jeff "Holier Than Thou" Passan chimes in

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... one_022712

Hey, i wanna believe that Braun is perfectly clean and there is a legit reason why he failed the test, but i do admit that if say the guy involved was Pujols or a non-Brewers player i'd be more skeptical like Passan is.

As Brewers fans, we think we know Braun by seeing him so him. Think it makes no sense for him to take a banned drug for any reason. So it's easier for us to buy his denials that we might not buy for a high profile player on another team.

[ReasonablySober]

Jeff "Holier Than Thou" Passan chimes in

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... one_022712

God he's been an annoying twat about this, from the second news of the overturn came down. He's been the driving force behind "he got off on a technicality" since that night.

[turbo2k]

I think it's a good article. People need to take off the homer glasses. At best I give it 50/50 that he did/did not use steroids.

[trwi7]

I think it's a good article. People need to take off the homer glasses. At best I give it 50/50 that he did/did not use steroids.

Once again, anyone who reads the Join Drug Agreement would know that it would take a lot more than a technicality or something to overturn a suspension.

I'll say it again but there is way more to this story than has been reported so far.

[turbo2k]

I think it's a good article. People need to take off the homer glasses. At best I give it 50/50 that he did/did not use steroids.

Once again, anyone who reads the Join Drug Agreement would know that it would take a lot more than a technicality or something to overturn a suspension.

I'll say it again but there is way more to this story than has been reported so far.

Do you know where one could read said agreement?

I don't disagree that it's very possible he didn't, but I feel that the number of Brewers' fans that support Braun right now is vastly disproportionate to the number nationally. I think too many people are clinging to some rather unlikely possibilities of how the test could have been a false positive. I mean what are the chances that this guy's wife or kid knows how to tamper with a sample without showing evidence of tampering. I'm not talking leaving physical evidence (i.e. seals being broken), but chemical traces in the sample that would be noticed when tested. The test lab says there was no evidence of degradation or contamination.

I'm just trying to keep an open mind.

[WEFFPIM]

I think it's a good article. People need to take off the homer glasses. At best I give it 50/50 that he did/did not use steroids.

Once again, anyone who reads the Join Drug Agreement would know that it would take a lot more than a technicality or something to overturn a suspension.

I'll say it again but there is way more to this story than has been reported so far.

Do you know where one could read said agreement?

I don't disagree that it's very possible he didn't, but I feel that the number of Brewers' fans that support Braun right now is vastly disproportionate to the number nationally. I think too many people are clinging to some rather unlikely possibilities of how the test could have been a false positive. I mean what are the chances that this guy's wife or kid knows how to tamper with a sample without showing evidence of tampering. I'm not talking leaving physical evidence (i.e. seals being broken), but chemical traces in the sample that would be noticed when tested. The test lab says there was no evidence of degradation or contamination.

I'm just trying to keep an open mind.

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

Ironically, it was Passan that tweeted out this link last Thursday night.

[turbo2k]

I see nothing in there that makes it harder than a technicality to overturn the result.

The way I read it:

Section 3
E. Positive Test Results
Any test conducted under the Program will be considered “positive” under the following circumstances:
1. Except as set forth in Section 3.F, Section 3.G or Section 9.B below, if any substance identified in the test results meets the levels set forth in the Testing Protocols section of Addendum A hereto.

Section 9
B. Challenges to a Positive Test Result
Notwithstanding Section 3.E above, a Player is not in violation of the Program if the presence of a Prohibited Substance in his urine was not due to his fault or negligence.
In any case involving an alleged violation of Section 3.E.1, the Commissioner’s Office shall carry its initial burden of establishing the violation by establishing that a Player’s test result was “positive” (as that term is defined therein) and was obtained pursuant to a valid test conducted under the Program. The Commissioner’s Office is not required to otherwise establish intent, fault, negligence or knowing use of a Prohibited Substance on the Player’s part to establish such a violation. If the Commissioner’s Office meets its initial burden, the Player then has the burden of establishing that his test result was not due to his fault or negligence. A Player cannot satisfy his burden by merely denying that he intentionally used a Prohibited Substance; the Player must provide objective evidence in support of his denial. Among other things, such objective evidence may question the accuracy or reliability of the “positive” test result.

Addendum A
7. The Collector shall check the “FedEx” box in the section entitled “Specimen Bottles(s) Released to:” Absent unusual circumstances, the specimens should be sent by FedEx to the Laboratory on the same day they are collected.

Braun's lawyers invalidated the test by attacking this last point. There were no unusual circumstances (regarding the delivery of the samples to FedEx), so they should have been delivered that day. By invalidating the test the commissioners' office could not fulfill the initial burden of " establishing the violation by establishing that a Player’s test result was “positive” (as that term is defined therein) and was obtained pursuant to a valid test conducted under the Program"

That's the way I read it. But I'm not a lawyer by any means.

I do hope that he's not guilty, but I wouldn't be too surprised.

[turbo2k]

Oh to follow up, I do agree that there are some funny circumstances surrounding his test (namely: why did he not deliver the samples right away or at least first thing on Monday?), hence my "50/50" feeling on his guilt/innocence.

[ReasonablySober]

My problem with saying he got off on a technicality is that it presumes guilt. If the sample is delivered under normal circumstances, maybe the sample doesn't come back positive.

[turbo2k]

My problem with saying he got off on a technicality is that it presumes guilt. If the sample is delivered under normal circumstances, maybe the sample doesn't come back positive.

I agree with that. The problem is though, that right now there does not appear to be anything showing that the unusual circumstances caused the positive test. But maybe we are just not privy to this info yet. Maybe something will come out that shows why the levels tested the way they did.

Basically what I am saying is this: I don't see any way he can be proven to be 100% guilty (unless he fails another test which is upheld and declared valid). So many of you are right, that maybe the media should stop continuing to sling mud on him because he cannot be proven guilty (as defined by the testing agreement). BUT, to go and search into every possible explanation as to why he may not be guilty seems to me to be absurd. I mean, I don't want to pick on people, but as I sit and read some of these explanations I can't help but laugh at the unlikelihood of them. I mean people, as it sits now, the lab saw nothing wrong with the sample. They could not tell that it had been tampered with, altered, or degraded due to improper handling/storage. That does not mean it hasn't, but there was nothing suspicious on their end. Until we hear something else (from valid sources), people have to get it in their head that it is quite possible he was using (most likely a cream or something to help with recovery, not for continuous use to build muscle necessarily). Odds are we may never know.

[kid idioteque]

A relative in Arizona tipped me off to this story in the Arizona Republic by Dan Bickley. Here's the most interesting passage from it:

The Brewers won 3 of 5 games to eliminate the Diamondbacks in the first round of the 2011 playoffs. In those three victories, Braun had eight hits in 11 at-bats, scored five runs and hit one of the more-majestic home runs you'll ever see.

After one of those games, I sat in the media room at Miller Park, marveling at the young slugger. When he was done speaking, I followed him out of the room. I heard him mutter to friends about having to take a drug test in the playoffs.

He seemed agitated, almost offended. I scribbled the scene in my notebook, where it held no context and remained dormant for months.

Now, it's a moment I'll never forget. For MLB, it's a moment cloaked in suspicion, dampening the mood of a fresh, new season. And that brings the story back to Arizona, where we occasionally get a bad rap for unpredictable, uncouth behavior.

Sour grapes? The tone of the piece is kind of whiny, but you can't help but think twice about that part...

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamond ... -saga.html