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Official Fire Yost thread.

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Post#81 » by worthlessBucks » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:52 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I wanted to start a vanity thread with this point, but I'll put it here....

The last time the Brewers won their division, the manager was fired IN SEASON. Somebody should do a study of how many teams made the playoffs with their manager fired in season....I bet there are more than many think.

Do I think a baseball manager can do much without talent? No. But when you reach a situation like this, a major psychological changeup can help pull you out of it.

We know Yost isn't Jim Leyland. So we aren't losing a HOF manager in replacing him right now.

Give him one more week to right the ship and stop the bleeding......if it doesn't, fire him.

He's gone in another month or so if this pace continues, having lost 8 of 9 series (and in the hole 0-1 in the Tigers series). Someone will relinquish our division lead by then and Mark won't be happy.
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Post#82 » by whatthe_buck!? » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:44 pm

I just read this post, and it definitely made me scratch my head when I did-

neverstoppers wrote:
Don't you think a guy who has seen him before would have a better chance?

Instead of brining in a rookie in braun off the bench trying to break up a no hitter.


So your argument in defense of Yost's decision to not make any moves as his team was being no-hit is that is should be self-evident that Graffanino/Gross/Counsell have a better chance to hit Verlander than Braun or Gwynn? WTF are you talking about? The only thing that seems self-evident to me about your clearly-very-well-thought out rhetorical question is its asininity. If you are going to say something like that you had better think it through to its logical conclusion and be prepared to defend yourself.

The box score says it all- not one lineup move was made the entire f*cking game. Let me tell you what that says to me, and if I'm way off, let me know; it looks -to the untrained eye, of course- as though Yost just sat there with his d*ck in his hand like the captain of the proverbial sinking ship, watching it slowly go down. To you it looks like the savy of an experienced and judicious manager who refused to hit the panic button and bring in one of his younger players when it was clear that they would have even less of a chance to do anything against a pitcher who was throwing fire.

If thats your argument, OK. But just realize that if that is the opinion you hold then you will have to make the case that each and every player in the lineup at the time was a better matchup against Verlander than any single bench player. Good luck if that is the case you choose to make, because you certainly will need it. Did I mention that Graffanino went 0 for 4 with four strikeouts!? In a game where the opposing pitcher had 12 strikeouts, Graffy contributed ONE THIRD of them. You're telling me that a manager who has any brain activity would not sit there in between the eighth and ninth innings and say to himself,

"man, ol' Graffy is having some kind of night. 0 for 3 with three strikeouts. Maybe it's just not his night tonight. Hmmm, I do have my hottest bat, who just happens to play the same position as Graffy, decomposing on the bench, maybe I should give him a shot to see if we can't break up this no-hitter the other team has got goin'. Yeah, that's a good idea, especially seeing how the embarrassment and criticism that would come from being no-hit could hurt the morale of my ballclub. I sure wouldn't want the guys to think I just don't give a crap either. Yeah, better to try something..."
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Post#83 » by Ace Villa » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:50 pm

my hope is that the no hitter starts motivating the front office to consider their options. yost is a terrible manager. and puttin counselsucko 1-2 is down right idiotic. those are our two WORST hitters. that logic is beyond me. ned the genius strikes again.
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Post#84 » by worthlessBucks » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:59 pm

Who didn't expect Counsell and Graffy to bat 1-2 after their marvelous final game in Texas? I joked about it to friends, and sure enough Yost does it. Batting those two 1-2, let alone playing both of them in the same game, is just not a recipe to long term success.
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Post#85 » by trwi7 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:28 pm

whatthe_buck!? wrote:
I don't think there's any way we get Girardi. He's working for the YES Network right now. Probably waiting for Torre to leave so he can manage the Yankees.


Excuse me, Mr. Negative Nancy, but these are the Attanasio/Melvin Brewers, not to be confused with the Selig-Prieb/Taylor Brewers. And don't forget the (admittedly assumed) fact that he wanted the Cubs job (meaning he is not totally against taking a job in the midwest), and the fact that if you had to name a young, high potential roster that a selective manager would desire to coach, the Brewers would be on the short list. Even if he plans on replacing Torre at some point, I don't see why he would be adverse to taking a managerial job in the interim. I guess I would prefer to think we would have a decent chance. :pray:

But you're right, we are getting ahead of ourselves here. First things first, we must get rid of Yost and then we can have the debate about his replacement.


How am I being negative? Do you see him leaving his job at YES to come manage the Brewers?

And he would go to the Cubs because he grew up in Chicago, played at Northwestern and played for the Cubs.
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Post#86 » by whatthe_buck!? » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:34 pm

Who didn't expect Counsell and Graffy to bat 1-2 after their marvelous final game in Texas? I joked about it to friends, and sure enough Yost does it. Batting those two 1-2, let alone playing both of them in the same game, is just not a recipe to long term success.


It certainly should have been anticipated, because in that last night in Texas Counsell and Graffanino got there averages up to over .250 and .230, respectively. And, as we all know painfully well, in the razor-sharp mind of Ned Yost a veteran hitting over the .230 mark deserves every at bat that can be supplied for them. Also, non-sarcastically, I would just add that batting Counsellnino 1-2 isn't good for any kind of success, not just bad for success in the long term.

You know what, I think all this complaining (about Yost) that I've done today has just made me angrier and angrier. I had better stop because I have leave work soon and I want to be in a good mood. I don't know what happened, I was in a fine mood earlier, I guess even just thinking about Yost is starting to annoy me.
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Post#87 » by trwi7 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:38 pm

The thing that pisses me off is no Braun at all. One of your hottest hitters and you sit him the whole game? Absolutely ridiculous.
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Post#88 » by whatthe_buck!? » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:52 pm

How am I being negative?


How are you being negative? Are you serious? You said this-

I don't think there's any way we get Girardi.


I, on the other hand, gave reasons why I thought we could get him.

You were being negative, if not somewhat more realistic, and I was being positive, and more unrealistic. This can't even be disputed. So don't try. It would be a more lopsided defeat than the position you took on Gwynn vs. Gross. BTW, when I called you negative the way I did it was half in jest.

I don't think, however, there is no way we could get him. He managed the Marlins, for christsakes. He never played for the Marlins. He had no history there. They weren't a good team when he took the job, in fact they were rebuilding with prospects after a major trade. Like I said, it is definitely more pragmatic to say that we shouldn't count on being able to hire him if we fired Yost, but it is not impossible by any stretch of the imagination. That is unless the Brewers' management thought the way you do, then I guess there really wouldn't be "any way we could get him", but I digress.
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Post#89 » by trwi7 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:28 pm

Okay I should say I don't think we get him this season. If Yost is fired I'm guessing it's Sveum or Maddux and they go after someone in the offseason.
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Post#90 » by whatthe_buck!? » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:39 pm

If Yost is fired I'm guessing it's Sveum or Maddux and they go after someone in the offseason.


You're probably right, but like I said before, we need to make sure that we don't get ahead of ourselves. Right now, we need to focus on why Ned is the wrong guy, not on who the right guy is to replace him, at least not on the "Fire Yost" thread. Not that I don't relish the thought of being able to one day discuss with you who Yost's replacement should be. :D
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Post#91 » by ACGB » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:07 pm

Wow this thread is still around?
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Post#92 » by whatthe_buck!? » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:13 am

Wow this thread is still around?


I don't mind taking the credit from rescuing this thread from oblivion. You were a man who was ahead of his time, ALLCAPSGOBUCKS, and I shall give you credit for your foresight. :bowdown: :wink:
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Post#93 » by whatthe_buck!? » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:26 am

neverstoppers wrote (in the 6/17 game thread):
tough game to loose. but the bullpen is probably worn out from the past week not much you can do.


aw shucks. oh well. both teams played hard. tough loss. too bad. what can you do? not much. might as well just forget about it. nothing could be done. no need to rehash. all that will do is upset you needlessly. nothing can be learned, so all the naysayers out there can just can just shut it in advance. both teams played hard. nevermind the fact that it took Yost until Suppan had given up 9 runs to decide to yank him out of the game. nevermind that although his bullpen was a little overworked (emphasis on a little), Yost did have Spurling and Cappellen available at the very least and could have brought either in earlier than he did. just move along folks, nothing to see here. fans cheer, they don't evaluate. that's the g.m.'s job. both teams played hard.

(seeing as sarcasm is your rebuttal of choice, I'm hoping that maybe if I use it myself I might have a better chance of convincing you that something is rotten in the city of Milwaukee)

Seriously though, even I have been astonished lately with how frequently situations have arisen that put to the test my hypothesis that Ned Yost is a sh*tty manager. This astonishment has been exceeded only by my amazement at the consistency with which Yost fails -or should I say passes- these tests.
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Post#94 » by livestrong4ever » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:43 am

whatthe_buck!? wrote:neverstoppers wrote (in the 6/17 game thread):
tough game to loose. but the bullpen is probably worn out from the past week not much you can do.


aw shucks. oh well. both teams played hard. tough loss. too bad. what can you do? not much. might as well just forget about it. nothing could be done. no need to rehash. all that will do is upset you needlessly. nothing can be learned, so all the naysayers out there can just can just shut it in advance. both teams played hard. nevermind the fact that it took Yost until Suppan had given up 9 runs to decide to yank him out of the game. nevermind that although his bullpen was a little overworked (emphasis on a little), Yost did have Spurling and Cappellen available at the very least and could have brought either in earlier than he did. just move along folks, nothing to see here. fans cheer, they don't evaluate. that's the g.m.'s job. both teams played hard.

(seeing as sarcasm is your rebuttal of choice, I'm hoping that maybe if I use it myself I might have a better chance of convincing you that something is rotten in the city of Milwaukee)

Seriously though, even I have been astonished lately with how frequently situations have arisen that put to the test my hypothesis that Ned Yost is a sh*tty manager. This astonishment has been exceeded only by my amazement at the consistency with which Yost fails -or should
I say passes- these tests.


I said before that he waited as long as he did because our bullpen has been working alot latley. And if they have to come in and pitch anther 6 inningshere its going to be pretty much kill our bullpen for the next few games. and for what?

Did you really want to see Gallardo come out and pitch here, a man who has never pitched out of the bullpen ever come in . a pretty much dead game already.
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Post#95 » by whatthe_buck!? » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:22 am

I said before that he waited as long as he did because our bullpen has been working alot latley. And if they have to come in and pitch anther 6 inningshere its going to be pretty much kill our bullpen for the next few games. and for what?

Did you really want to see Gallardo come out and pitch here, a man who has never pitched out of the bullpen ever come in . a pretty much dead game already.


First of all, I have to point out that I tried to make it very clear in my post that my problem wasn't with Yost leaving Gallardo on the bench (although Mickey is right to point out that bringing in YoGo once the Brewers pulled even may very well have changed the outcome of the game, and at the time that option deserved some thought).

What I instead complain about is that Yost, after watching Suppan give up 5 runs on a walk and 6 hits (and a hit batter) in three innings, decided to let him continue to pitch when it seemed obvious that Suppan just didn't have it. As for your claim that there was nothing that could be done because we were short in the pen, I would ask you why Yost could not have relieved Suppan with Spurling in the 3rd and then have Spurling pitch 2 or 3 innings? Would that not be better than leaving a wild Suppan in?

Look, I know what you're thinking, you're probably saying to yourself, "Yeah, right, this guy says that the best move would have been to bring in Cappy or Chris in the third, but if either of those guys had come in then and would have proceeded to give up a couple of runs after that he would have been the first guy to complain that Yost brought in a shaky reliever when Suppan was still only around 50 pitches".

To that I would first say that you sure don't give me a lot of credit, and, second, that I promise that you will never catch me second-guessing a manager for pulling a starter (or any pitcher) too early if that pitcher showed signs that he didn't have his accuracy on that particular outing (which I think should be pretty clear in this case from the 25 balls, the hit batter, and the 6 hits surrendered through 3 innings by Suppan), because I have never done it and would never do it.

Knowing Yost, there was never any question in his mind of when to remove Suppan, and there is almost no doubt in my mind now about what transpired in this instance. Suppan looked a little rocky in the 1st, and Yost understandably shrugged it off. He then saw Suppan getting hit and looking rattled in the 3rd, so he asked Mad Dog for the pitch count and, because it was still in the forties, he shrugged it off again. This fits in exactly with my diagnosis of Yost, which is that his problem is that he will continue to do what he had planned on doing regardless of changing circumstances on the field, especially with regard to the pitching staff.

Ned Yost did eventually remove Suppan, but only once his pitch count was at 96. This is my point. Suppan was not coming out of that damn game, no matter what he looked like or how badly he pitched, until his pitch count was close to 100. See what I'm getting at?

Ned Yost is like the Hold'em player who always plays his aces to the river no matter what comes out on the flop or what is raised by others in the hand after the flop, turn, or river. Anyone who has played poker has played against guys like that; the type that gets good pocket cards and has a really hard time laying them down even if the situation is such that it makes sense to do so. Managers, like poker players, must try to get their best read on the situation and then make the most logical play, and there seems to me to be no getting around the fact that Yost has trouble doing just that.
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Post#96 » by whatthe_buck!? » Thu Aug 2, 2007 11:17 pm

All right, I've had it.

A month and a half ago I decided I was content to put the brakes on my campaign for Melvin to replace Yost until after the season was over. I figured it would be pointless to try and argue for the firing of a manager when his team was leading the division by 8 games, and although there were people on this board who agreed with me to a certain extent, at this time I have to say that I was probably then correct in my assessment of the futility of my efforts.

Now, however, with the possibility of Yost's release improving daily as he and his team begin to crack under the ever-increasing pressure and scrutiny, and knowing that this team's potential cannot be achieved with a relatively dull-witted manager calling the shots, I feel like the time is ripe for myself to again voice my extreme displeasure with the trajectory of the Brewers' season by posting on this most holy of treads.

For the sake of a transparent record, I must admit that the catalyst for me taking this action was Braindead Ned starting a dugout altercation with Estrada because of Johnny's (successful) stretch of a single to a double in the eight inning of a blowout. It is clear to me that Ned was simply using Estrada for a scapegoat upon whom he could unload his own frustrations, and although I can kind of understand his reaction, that doesn't change the fact that it was d*mning behavior which was totally unbecoming of a manager of a supposed playoff team. Speaking for myself, it really was the last straw.

P.S. And for those of you who still may think that upping this thread is a pointless exercise (because this is a topic that shouldn't be discussed until after the season has run its course), then think of it as me trying to motivate ol' Nedder for the stretch run :wink: .
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Post#97 » by trwi7 » Fri Aug 3, 2007 12:40 am

Good post buckie, you've battled in this thread and for that, I applaud you. :wink:
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Post#98 » by whatthe_buck!? » Fri Aug 3, 2007 12:46 am

trwi7 wrote:Good post buckie, you've battled in this thread and for that, I applaud you. :wink:

Hey, I do what I can
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Post#99 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Aug 3, 2007 12:58 am

Ned won't get fired......you guys know more about recent MLB history than I do, but I can't remember the last guy fired whose team was in a pennant race during the first week of August.....

We are too close to the end of the year for a move like this. Now of course after the season is another matter.

Sometimes we put too much emphasis on the past, but I do see similarities between Ned and Buck Rodgers.....both guys had questionable managerial competence and were tight as a piano wire. The only problem is that 1982 team had veterans on it who could handle themselves when the tight-ass manager got fired. We don't have veteran leadership at this point yet to step up and fill the void if Ned got canned.
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Post#100 » by msiris » Fri Aug 3, 2007 1:10 am

I dont think he is safe just because he has had a losing record since the fast start. What has this guy proven since he started? Nothing. Six years of being Yosted. We have some great talent. Please no more Yost.
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