Braun tests positive for PED | Presser update pg. 42

[dbrodz7]

This shirt is incredible, absolute must have http://www.myshirtrocks.com/MVP_H8ters_p/msr00174.htm

[ReasonablySober]

I'd rather not remind people that our MVP was on the verge of being suspended after his MVP season, but that's probably just me.

[Ruben Douglas]

If it was Albert Pujols that this happened to not a single person on this board would presume he is innocent. I'm not saying Braun is guilty, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I personally feel Braun took something because there is absolutely nothing that has shown the sample has been tampered with and whether it's 1 hour or 100 hours, synthetic testosterone doesn't grow out of thin air.

But everyone has a right to their own opinion. There is one thing Braun is 100% guilty of, though. And that is one horrendous hair cut.

[LUKE23]

There is far more evidence that shows the sample was screwed up in some way, than vice versa. The 44 hours is the first, the second is the fact that it was ridiculously high levels, high enough levels to cause a lot of suspicion to the validity of the sample. Additionally, why does MLB refuse Braun a DNA test to verify it actually was his sample? Why does Braun pass a polygraph test? Why hasn't Braun's weight, sprint times, etc. changed?

MLB has a lot more explaining to do on this than Braun does. Braun has done everything asked, and then some.

[sidney lanier]

If it was Albert Pujols that this happened to not a single person on this board would presume he is innocent.

That depends. In your hypothetical, are Tony LaRussa, Mark McGwire and Rick Ankiel vouching for him?

[JayMKE]

If it was Albert Pujols that this happened to not a single person on this board would presume he is innocent. I'm not saying Braun is guilty, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I personally feel Braun took something because there is absolutely nothing that has shown the sample has been tampered with and whether it's 1 hour or 100 hours, synthetic testosterone doesn't grow out of thin air.

But everyone has a right to their own opinion. There is one thing Braun is 100% guilty of, though. And that is one horrendous hair cut.

Pujols looks like he takes roids and recovers from from broken bones in like 2 weeks.

They probably switched Albert and Braun's samples.

[turbo2k]

There is far more evidence that shows the sample was screwed up in some way, than vice versa. The 44 hours is the first,

Just because it was 44 hours does not mean it screwed up the sample. There is no evidence showing that the sample was screwed up.

the second is the fact that it was ridiculously high levels, high enough levels to cause a lot of suspicion to the validity of the sample.

High for a baseball player so far, yes. But other athletes have recorded significantly higher, and 20 to 1 is not enough to raise suspicion, according to multiple sources.

Additionally, why does MLB refuse Braun a DNA test to verify it actually was his sample?

I do not know. But further on in the article where this info originated, it said that MLB later agreed to, and Braun backed out (which is understandable from his point of view). I do not have a quote but it is in the article and has been already pointed out in this thread.

Why does Braun pass a polygraph test?

This I had never heard. Source?

Why hasn't Braun's weight, sprint times, etc. changed?

It is very possible he was using it for recovery, not for overall muscle strength increase.

MLB has a lot more explaining to do on this than Braun does. Braun has done everything asked, and then some.

I disagree, the full facts of the case need to be revealed (by MLB and Braun) in order to make a judgement. There are just as many little nuggets of info floating around that suggest he may have been using, people are just choosing to ignore them/label them unreliable yet quote sources just as unreliable that show support (I'm not saying you Luke).

I do agree that Braun has done everything asked and been very compliant and consistent. I do think that it is very much possible that it was a false positive. But I don't see how anyone is trying to form an opinion right now, let the facts come out, and if they don't let it rest, we will never know.

[ReasonablySober]

Here is part of Will Caroll's report:

MLB sources explained to me that the defense focused not just on the widely reported chain of custody issue, but the science of how this mishandled sample caused such a result to occur at all. The sample was not properly sent off, but instead was held for a period of time in varied conditions. Sources and reports agree that the issue was not that it was unsealed or tampered with, but that the conditions were such that the integrity of the sample was compromised.

At the heart of the defense was the very content of the sample. Urine is, obviously, an organic substance created to remove liquid waste from the body. It is not static, containing organic and inorganic substances that are constantly changing based on many factors. Testing is based on the detection of various substances and metabolites in the urine. Ideally, collection and testing take place as quickly as possible, but the location of teams and labs make it necessary to have a collection and shipment process.

Braun's urine not only contains remnants of any substance he ingests, but the basic flora of the human body. It is impossible to know exactly what substances Braun takes, which could include legal supplements and prescribed medications, or how those interact with his unique body chemistry. Indeed, Braun's urine is going to be chemically distinct from any other persons, whether it is another teammate that was tested at the same time, or you, the reader.

While the problem in the chain of command is bad enough in and of itself, it is the result of that problem that led to the positive. According to sources with knowledge of Braun's defense, the team was able to recreate the results. It is unknown if that replication influenced the decision, but given the extension of the decision, it makes sense that Das would have needed extra time to understand the science, rather than a clear-cut chain issue.

So there's that.

Also, Lester Munson of ESPN claims that the sample was on the guy's desk for two days. Not some cooler.

[ACGB]

If it was Albert Pujols that this happened to not a single person on this board would presume he is innocent. I'm not saying Braun is guilty, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I personally feel Braun took something because there is absolutely nothing that has shown the sample has been tampered with and whether it's 1 hour or 100 hours, synthetic testosterone doesn't grow out of thin air.

But everyone has a right to their own opinion. There is one thing Braun is 100% guilty of, though. And that is one horrendous hair cut.

People seem to be confused and saying this exact thing about how synthetic T doesn't magically appear. AFAIK they don't actually find any testosterone at all when they put it through the mass spec, they look for other stuff that suggests it's there. From all the reports about replication it seems like a mishandled sample could definitely screw up the test and make it look like synthetic T was present.

[sidney lanier]

Just because it was 44 hours does not mean it screwed up the sample. There is no evidence showing that the sample was screwed up.

And no evidence that the sample was triple sealed, or that it arrived chemically unchanged at the lab, or that it sat in a Tupperware container on a desk in a basement, or alternatively that it sat in a picnic cooler, or in a lab-grade refrigerator, or for that matter that the piss ever contained high levels of synthetic testosterone when it was in Milwaukee, Pleasant Prairie, or Montreal.

Except for what Braun has said, and the representations of MLB about the sublime competency of the tester and that their testing procedures are the very bestest in the whole wide world and that they would never leak a test result, everything we think we know so far and comically refer to as evidence in this case is hearsay, spin and leakage.

So when Tim Kurkjian or Mike Lupica relays one of their MLB sources' spin on the Braun affair, take them with a grain of salt until we have some real evidence, which I hope someday we do.

[trwi7]

People seem to be confused and saying this exact thing about how synthetic T doesn't magically appear. AFAIK they don't actually find any testosterone at all when they put it through the mass spec, they look for other stuff that suggests it's there. From all the reports about replication it seems like a mishandled sample could definitely screw up the test and make it look like synthetic T was present.

This is right. I will post this so people can read it again or those who haven't read it can read it.

No, you can't spontaneously sprout synthetic T in urine sample, but the test that "determines" that synthetic T is present does not actually find synthetic T in urine. What it does is identify the metabolites produced when T is used up by your body processes. It identifies them only by very precisely detemining when the remnants of those metabolites pass in front of a sensor after the urine sample has been literally turned into a gas. The gas rises up a tube and the different remnant rise at microscopically different rates. A sensor records data about these remnants as they pass by. This data is turned into a printout (though it can also be evaluated just as numbers). Then you look on your printout for a peak at a given "time" on the graph, you measure that peak and make a determination as to what that means.

Here's the catch. What if two different things are passing by the sensor at a give time? If you are predisposed to think that everything passing by that sensor at that specific time is indicative of synthetic T, you're going to get a big peak that looks like a lot of synthetic T that is actually only a mcuh smaller amounts of two different things. (And that small amount, for reasons alluded to in posts long ago, would not mean that there was a small amount of synthetic T, either. A determination of synthetic T being present can only be made by comparing ratios of different carbon ions, both of which are present in nature, and then making a statistical hypothesis that a certain ratio is "out of whack" with what would normally be expected in a given sample. It's diagnostic art and statistics as much as anything.

This is a vast oversimplification, but the point is that you don't "find' synthetic T waving back at you from under a microscope. These tests are extraordinarily complex in nature. Just reading this simplified version should provide further insight into why I say it's virtually impossible for the athlete to challenge the conclusion of the testers when they say they're right.

[crkone]

Dino's statement:

"On February 24th, Ryan Braun stated during his press conference that "there were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened." Shortly thereafter, someone who had intimate knowledge of the facts of this case released my name to the media. I am issuing this statement to set the record straight.

"I am a 1983 graduate of the University of Wisconsin and have received Master Degrees from the University of North Carolina and Loyola University of Chicago. My full-time job is the director of rehabilitation services at a health care facility. In the past, I have worked as a teacher and an athletic trainer, including performing volunteer work with Olympic athletes. I am a member of both the National Athletic Trainers' Association and the Wisconsin Athletic Trainers' Association.

"I have been a drug collector for Comprehensive Drug Testing since 2005 and have been performing collections for Major League Baseball's Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program since that time. I have performed over 600 collections for MLB and also have performed collections for other professional sports leagues. I have performed post-season collections for MLB in four separate seasons involving five different clubs.

"On October 1, 2011, I collected samples from Mr. Braun and two other players. The CDT collection team for that day, in addition to me, included three chaperones and a CDT coordinator. One of the chaperones was my son, Anthony. Chaperones do not have any role in the actual collection process, but rather escort the player to the collection area.

"I followed the same procedure in collecting Mr. Braun's sample as I did in the hundreds of other samples I collected under the Program. I sealed the bottles containing Mr. Braun's A and B samples with specially-numbered, tamper-resistant seals, and Mr. Braun signed a form certifying, among other things, that the specimens were capped and sealed in his presence and that the specimen identification numbers on the top of the form matched those on the seals.

"I placed the two bottles containing Mr. Braun's samples in a plastic bag and sealed the bag. I then placed the sealed bag in a standard cardboard Specimen Box which I also sealed with a tamper-resistant, correspondingly-numbered seal placed over the box opening. I then placed Mr. Braun's Specimen Box, and the Specimen Boxes containing the samples of the two other players, in a Federal Express Clinic Pack. None of the sealed Specimen Boxes identified the players. I completed my collections at Miller Park at approximately 5:00 p.m. Given the lateness of the hour that I completed my collections, there was no FedEx office located within 50 miles of Miller Park that would ship packages that day or Sunday.

"Therefore, the earliest that the specimens could be shipped was Monday, October 3. In that circumstance, CDT has instructed collectors since I began in 2005 that they should safeguard the samples in their homes until FedEx is able to immediately ship the sample to the laboratory, rather than having the samples sit for one day or more at a local FedEx office. The protocol has been in place since 2005 when I started with CDT and there have been other occasions when I have had to store samples in my home for at least one day, all without incident.

"The FedEx Clinic Pack containing Mr. Braun's samples never left my custody. Consistent with CDT's instructions, I brought the FedEx Clinic Pack containing the samples to my home. Immediately upon arriving home, I placed the FedEx Clinic Pack in a Rubbermaid container in my office which is located in my basement. My basement office is sufficiently cool to store urine samples. No one other than my wife was in my home during the period in which the samples were stored. The sealed Specimen Boxes were not removed from the FedEx Clinic Pack during the entire period in which they were in my home. On Monday, October 3, I delivered the FedEx Clinic Pack containing Mr. Braun's Specimen Box to a FedEx office for delivery to the laboratory on Tuesday, October 4. At no point did I tamper in any way with the samples. It is my understanding that the samples were received at the laboratory with all tamper-resistant seals intact.

"This situation has caused great emotional distress for me and my family. I have worked hard my entire life, have performed my job duties with integrity and professionalism, and have done so with respect to this matter and all other collections in which I have participated. Neither I nor members of my family will make any further public comments on this matter. I request that members of the media, and baseball fans, whatever their views on this matter, respect our privacy. And I would like to sincerely thank my family and friends for their overwhelming support through this difficult time. Any future inquiries should be directed to my attorney Boyd Johnson of Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr LLP."

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/140745823.html

[ReasonablySober]

So Munson's source was correct, that the sample wasn't in a cooler, but at room temperature in his office. Would also go along with Carrol's report.

[crkone]

I tried checking if FedEx does in fact ship at least Sunday morning but I would have to call Fedex and meh...

[MickeyDavis]

"Sufficiently cool" in his basement. Hmmmm. Also didn't say why he didn't ship it until Monday afternoon instead of Monday morning.

We will never know the whole story here. Neither side will ever admit to any wrong doing.

[crkone]

"Given the lateness of the hour that I completed my collections, there was no FedEx office located within 50 miles of Miller Park that would ship packages that day or Sunday."

[kid idioteque]

"Sufficiently cool" in his basement. Hmmmm.

That doesn't make any sense at all. How cold was his office in his basement in early October?

His statement certainly doesn't make his case any stronger, unless you know the guy personally. But I suppose staying silent would have caused more trouble for him.

[chuckleslove]

I tried checking if FedEx does in fact ship at least Sunday morning but I would have to call Fedex and meh...

I ship with FedEx at work, the latest pickup on Saturday is indeed 5pm, both at the location near the Waukesha airport and a location downtown. There is no Sunday pickup in the area outside of special collections which you have to pay a ton for and aren't available to the standard customer. That part of his statement is plenty accurate to me.

[kid idioteque]

http://www.almanac.com/weather/history/ ... 2011-10-02

[kid idioteque]

I realize it's still possible that Braun cheated, BUT... I think it may be telling that the lab that tested his sample was the "world anti-doping" lab. The anti-doping advocates have no invested interest in any professional athlete producing a clean test. They're not the "we're neutral as far as doping is concerned" lab.

They devote their lives to policing this, which is an admirable thing, generally speaking, but it's not like any of the anti-doping people are unbiased. In fact, it wouldn't be outrageous to suggest that a few of them could easily make an example out of a high profile athlete during a time in which there hasn't been much anti-doping awareness in professional sports. Manny Ramirez is old news.