RealGM

5 years 11 million is a great deal I don't know how anyone can't like that. Bill Michaels was talking about it yesterday and he was saying every catcher gets compared to Johnny Bench and Mike Piazza and that Lucroy wasn't at that level. Man he's such an idiot.

Not only is Michaels an idiot, but as long as LuCroy didn't get hurt...this is what he would have gotten paid anyways through his years of arbitration.

He basically gave us a year of his free agency for financial security if he gets a career-ending injury tomorrow.

That's one of the more annoying things when nobody realizes that these guys are under team control regardless. My Facebook blew up with "zOMG Gallardo will be a Brewer for 5 more years!" when at the time he was, what, 4 years still within team control?

GrendonJennings wrote:Not only is Michaels an idiot, but as long as LuCroy didn't get hurt...this is what he would have gotten paid anyways through his years of arbitration.

He basically gave us a year of his free agency for financial security if he gets a career-ending injury tomorrow.

He may have ended up making more through his years of arbitration if he continues to improve as a player.

That said, your main point is true and i understand why young players sign contracts like this, especially pitchers. Sure, if they stay healthy the odds are that they'll have left money on the table, but being able to secure 10-25 million depending on the quality of the player is worth securing their financial future for the most part in case of serious injury. A lot of these guys have a wife and kid/kids and i believe Lucroy does himself, 11 million dollars guaranteed goes a long way to making sure his family is set up well, even if something terrible happened to him.

jr lucosa wrote:5 years 11 million is a great deal I don't know how anyone can't like that. Bill Michaels was talking about it yesterday and he was saying every catcher gets compared to Johnny Bench and Mike Piazza and that Lucroy wasn't at that level. Man he's such an idiot.

Bill Michaels is reallyyyyy bad.

Great deal and Value for what we paid. Lucroy is a SOLID catcher. 11 mil for 5 years is a great value... Considering what STL paid for Molina.... He is obviously better than Lucroy, but I prefer Lucroy at 2 mil over what they paid molina, any day.

ArodpwnsFavre wrote:Great deal and Value for what we paid. Lucroy is a SOLID catcher. 11 mil for 5 years is a great value... Considering what STL paid for Molina.... He is obviously better than Lucroy, but I prefer Lucroy at 2 mil over what they paid molina, any day.

Different situations. LuCroy couldn't demand anything, he wouldn't have been a free agent for 4 more years. Molina was going to be a free agent.

DrugBust wrote:In related news, the Brewers are going to let Marcum get to free agency. I'll say the same thing about the trade that I did last year. If he helps the Brewers get to the World Series I won't care that we gave up Laurie.

I don't understand this logic. Don't you think Lawrie could help the Brewers get to the World Series? A rotation with Gallardo/Greinke at the top with a middle of the lineup featuring Braun/Lawrie is quite scary.

Relentless88 wrote:

DrugBust wrote:In related news, the Brewers are going to let Marcum get to free agency. I'll say the same thing about the trade that I did last year. If he helps the Brewers get to the World Series I won't care that we gave up Laurie.

I don't understand this logic. Don't you think Lawrie could help the Brewers get to the World Series? A rotation with Gallardo/Greinke at the top with a middle of the lineup featuring Braun/Lawrie is quite scary.

Grienke agreed to the trade to come to Milwaukee because the Brewers had already made the move for Marcum.

beyond_the_arc wrote:

Relentless88 wrote:

DrugBust wrote:In related news, the Brewers are going to let Marcum get to free agency. I'll say the same thing about the trade that I did last year. If he helps the Brewers get to the World Series I won't care that we gave up Laurie.

I don't understand this logic. Don't you think Lawrie could help the Brewers get to the World Series? A rotation with Gallardo/Greinke at the top with a middle of the lineup featuring Braun/Lawrie is quite scary.

Grienke agreed to the trade to come to Milwaukee because the Brewers had already made the move for Ahh, I forgot about that. Does that mean Greinke will only extend if Marcum is extended?

really like this, he turned into a pretty good defensive catcher last year, and his offensive game will improve hes still young.

like others have said will be nice to get greinke resigned to have him and gallardo for a few more years. maybe next year pelrta and jungman. jungman 4 year college pitcher, who knows how many years of minor league he needs, i am predicting very good things from him.

I don't understand this logic. Don't you think Lawrie could help the Brewers get to the World Series? A rotation with Gallardo/Greinke at the top with a middle of the lineup featuring Braun/Lawrie is quite scary.

at the time we traded him he was still a prospect, no one could of predicted the grand success he could of had. obviously right now he is worth more then marcum.

but that being said, starting pitching is more valuable then offense when the playoffs start, and in september. would much rather have a top of the rotation guy then anther good offensive thirdbasemen.

If you're saying nobody could have predicted Lawrie's success as a prospect, he was pretty sure-fire. More sure-fire than hoping a guy that throws 85 MPH batting practice balls that need to be thrown in a 3x3 inch zone to not be blasted out of the stadium is still really effective.

GrendonJennings wrote:If you're saying nobody could have predicted Lawrie's success as a prospect, he was pretty sure-fire. More sure-fire than hoping a guy that throws 85 MPH batting practice balls that need to be thrown in a 3x3 inch zone to not be blasted out of the stadium is still really effective.

No one is sure-fire. Are there a lot of things to like about Lawrie? Yes, and they could very well pan out given early returns. But given the 2010 season from both McGehee and the pitching staff, there was a clear need, and it wasn't at third.

I'm not saying I'm a massive fan of the deal. But two things: For a trade like this where a coveted prospect who pans out is given up, there's a trade where a coveted prospect that doesn't pan out is given up. For every Brett Lawrie, there's a Matt Laporta. For every Nelson Cruz, there's a Jeremy Jeffress. And two, if it results in a World Series, I don't give a flying f*** about who the Brewers gave up to get one. It almost did last year, and might this year.

Yeah I wasn't completely bashing the trade (though I was much less a fan of this one) I was just responding to livestrong saying that Lawrie was a prospect and had chance to bust. So did Marcum (he pitched pretty well, but I'm not expecting anything this year and beyond).

GrendonJennings wrote:Yeah I wasn't completely bashing the trade (though I was much less a fan of this one) I was just responding to livestrong saying that Lawrie was a prospect and had chance to bust. So did Marcum (he pitched pretty well, but I'm not expecting anything this year and beyond).

Marcum's September and postseason tainted what was a very, very good year for him. His style of pitching should allow him to replicate it since it's not so reliant on speed. It's whether or not he can find his spots. I'm not sure we can expect more from him than what the Brewers got last year, but if he's managed better at the end of the year, that should be fine.

My issue with Marcum is I think that he's a great pitcher for beating the Astros, Pirates, and Cubs 5 times a year, but in the playoffs, elite offenses will put his pitching into the parking lot.

If they make the playoffs and Marcum is on the tail end of another nose-dive, maybe Peralta could be available to help.

My worry is that Marcum will have his "nose dive" during the playoffs. Other than a Cincy series and a decent Washington offense, we play a bunch of offenses that don't look to have a whole lot of punch in the back-half of September. Marcum will go 7 innings, 1-2 ER in most of those and look great. Then, when he faces 6-7 MLB hitters in the playoffs instead of 1-2, suddenly he'll have his "nose dive."

Suddenly, not threading the baseball through a pinhole on some pitches will start to cost Marcum in games again.

GrendonJennings wrote:Yeah I wasn't completely bashing the trade (though I was much less a fan of this one) I was just responding to livestrong saying that Lawrie was a prospect and had chance to bust. So did Marcum (he pitched pretty well, but I'm not expecting anything this year and beyond).

I didn't expect Lawrie to explode the way he did last year, but he did and if he does develop into an elite or near elite bat, i'll see no other way to view the trade as bad to some degree in retrospect given i want no part of extending Marcum unless it's two years at most. He won't take only two years though.

Maybe Marcum can do better vs good offenses this year, including the playoffs if the Brewers do make it, but like you i'm skeptical until i see it. That said, his ability to generally shut down weaker offenses still does have value, each game counts in the standings. It's just nerve racking watching him pitch in important late season games/the playoffs when he gets behind in the count and Macum has to come in with that 86mph "fastball."

One other thing to remember about the Marcum trade is Greinke brought it up when agreeing to drop his no-trade clause to Milwaukee. Now maybe he'd still have agreed to come here without the Marcum trade happening first, but that we'll never know.

livestrong4ever wrote:

I don't understand this logic. Don't you think Lawrie could help the Brewers get to the World Series? A rotation with Gallardo/Greinke at the top with a middle of the lineup featuring Braun/Lawrie is quite scary.

at the time we traded him he was still a prospect, no one could of predicted the grand success he could of had. obviously right now he is worth more then marcum.

but that being said, starting pitching is more valuable then offense when the playoffs start, and in september. would much rather have a top of the rotation guy then anther good offensive thirdbasemen.

I agree, starting pitching is extremely valuable in the playoffs. Hopefully Marcum has a better post season this year.

What GrendonJennings posted about Marcum is pretty much what our GM was thinking. Anthopolous values power pitchers, especially in a division where we're facing offenses like the Yankees and Red Sox. His splits against those 2 teams aren't very good, and the Jays face them quite often in a season. It's also why Brett Cecil might lost his job soon to Kyle Drabek. Cecil's velocity has dipped from 90-92 range to the 85-87 range. Alvarez, Romero, Morrow and McGowan all throw 92+ MPH.