Fiers :( and Gomez to Houston

[coolhandluke121]

Keith Law just panned the return we got on Baseball Tonight. Said Philips will be an impact guy(threw out Brett Gardner as a comparison) and doesn't expect much from any of the other guys, was surprised we didn't do better.

Not sure how much value his opinion holds but thought it was interesting.

Not worried about it at all. It would be much more accurate to criticize the Brewers for not trading him after last season when they might have gotten a return worthy of a superstar on a bargain contract. But Gomez is no more of a superstar than Weeks, Hart, or Bill Hall. He just had a career year in his physical prime at an age at which many players have their career year. His career OPS is lower than Scooter's and it might stay there if Scooter is platooned for the rest of his career. He will probably decline even more sharply than most 30-year-olds. In the absence of a career year, his base-running blunders and brain farts in the field are all the more conspicuous, not to mention his declining athleticism. This is a good return. Nobody should be surprised that they didn't get more. The fact that they got one likely impact player makes this an automatic A. There's no need to nitpick the return; just the fact that they traded Gomez and Fiers is a godsend for the team's vision and future. He could prove me wrong and have a few more great years, but I'm really happy with this.

Speaking of all that, it's really important that they trade Luc soon as well. Here's hoping he rebounds in the 2nd half and they have the sense to trade him in the off season.

[coolhandluke121]

I wondered why we weren't hearing more about package deals. The Brewers have so much to offer in trades and most buyers theoretically should be interested in more than just one of our guys. I like how this went down. I think we should be offering Segura and Parra to the Mets to see if that will seal a good deal. There's a threshold effect involved in convincing buyers to part with really good prospects and the Brewers should be able to hit that threshold. Still wonder if using Ramirez as a sweetener would have been smarter than trading him for basically nothing.

After the Mets lied about Carlos to cover for their financial demands, i really doubt that the Brewers will be working with them anytime soon.

Yeah, I thought of that after I posted. It was still the best example I could think of to illustrate how various package deals might work out better for the Brewers. Just rephrase it to say "the Brewers should have offered Parra and Segura to the Mets" or something like that. They might have been interested in K-Rod and Ramirez as well. It's a shame nothing can get done now.

I really think a buyer is more likely to give up nice prospects if they think the return could really give them a huge boost by filling multiple need areas.

[JimmyTheKid]

Looks to be a nice haul. I will definitely miss watching Carlos Gomez fly around centerfield. But it was time move him. Due big money after next year, a small market team can't afford to have close to $40 mil tied up in two outfielders.

Heard Astros insider on the radio this morning talking about the prospects. Obviously Phillips is the 5-tool guy who could potentially be our opening day centerfielder next year. The insider didn't have glowing reviews for the rest of the guys. Lot of "if this happens...he could be a major leaguer" type comments. He said anything from the other three prospects would be gravy.

[Kerb Hohl]

One correction, Jimmy - Gomez is only due about $9 million next year.

[xTitan]

I love this deal far better than the Mets deal, IF Wheeler bounces back, next year would've been a lost year because he is not expected back until July, the Brewers then would've had 3 years of control, I believe.

The 2 outfielders alone have become the Brewers #2 and #4 ranked prospects.

[Kerb Hohl]

I don't get how Santana is getting a lot of lukewarm reviews. He's going to do something in the majors. I guess he could be one of those Kyle Blanks or Dayan Viciedo types that has power but is just too huge to be valuable in other areas and is unfortunately right-handed, but he's going to at least provide some pop at a corner spot (excluding 3B).

[humanrefutation]

One correction, Jimmy - Gomez is only due about $9 million next year.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the fact that keeping Gomez would have required an extension that would put he and Braun around $40M per season.

[Kerb Hohl]

My bad - "after next year"

[humanrefutation]

Between this deal and the Mets deal, this deal is preferable. Wheeler was a tantalizing get, but he'll be 26 and coming off of TJ by the time he comes back. He'll only have three years of control after that as well, and if he turns into a stud #2, he's going to command the kind of money in the market that we might not be able to afford. I also wasn't impressed with Flores. That being said, I wouldn't have balked at the move. Wheeler was an exciting piece.

Philips was ranked as BA's 21st best prospect in baseball in their midseason rankings. Baseball Prospectus had him right outside of the top 50. No one seems to believe he'll be a world beater, but everyone seems to think he's going to be a valuable contributor at the major league level.

The reactions on Santana have varied quite a bit, but I get that. He's crushed AAA ball, but there are concerns he'll struggle against the more deceptive pitching in the league. He could be a world beater, or could be the most frustrating player on the roster. He's still only 22, so there's room for him to grow.

The other pitchers are guys who could be back-end rotation guys or bullpen contributors, which ain't too bad, but I would have preferred one of those pitchers with more boom-bust potential, I think.

Could we have done better? Maybe. Maybe we could have packaged Gomez and Fiers and taken on a pair of higher ranked prospects. But I'm not going to nitpick without knowing what was out there.

[neiLz]

I really like the trade. The bats we got were a pretty good return. Now have to get rid of parra and lind. I don't think Luc is gone this year, maybe during the offseason, but I'd deal him if they got a good offer. Keep stacking the farm system!

[WeekapaugGroove]

Like the trade. I'm no expert on prospects but I like that this is a sure sign they are going major rebuild.

Philips looks good and I'm excited to see santana get a shot in September.

[ajb905]

My initial reaction is that the haul is better for the Brewers than Mets deal. WHile the Brewers have no one in the system with WHeelers upside for SP and that is a need but between prospect risk and pitcher injury risk, I'd go prospects especially bats. Seems like the "value" of the deal hinges on Santana and to a lesser extent Hader. Santana is young but might be someone who flames out as a guy who won't make enough contact to utilize power effectively: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-domingo-santana-experiment-comes-to-houston/.

It seems teams are less likely to trade top prospects and expecting a deal like the Cubs received for Samardazija 1.5 years and Hammel .5 years of ...Russell (top 10 prospect), McKinney (top 100 guy), etc.

So when adding Fiers in it does seem like the package is a bit light, though I guess it shows people pay less for defensive value than hitting value. But maybe Phillips can be a star, hoping and Santana becomes more Adam Dunn than Jack Cust or worse and Hader can be a mid rotation starter.

[crkone]

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[Iheartfootball]

Suck it Keith Law.

[Outlander]

It was fun going back and reading this thread and always great when the smug Keith Law is wrong. Looks like Santana has always been underrated. Forgot that the Davies trade was around this time too and also chuckled that the Gallardo/Knebel trade was mentioned and Knebel is now a dominant closer on this team. Not much was thought of Hader back then. Without Melvin making the moves to acquire Knebel/Santana/Hader/Davies there is no way the Brewers are where they are today contending for the division/wild card.

[trwi7]

*Sees I have 6 posts in the thread. Opens thread, 5 of the posts are explaining what a free swinging is.

*Slams head against wall*