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2017 Roster

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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#41 » by trwi7 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:31 pm

I can't for the life of me figure out why we would spend money on a free agent 3B or really any free agent because this class is so ****.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#42 » by wichmae » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:34 pm

trwi7 wrote:I can't for the life of me figure out why we would spend money on a free agent 3B or really any free agent because this class is so ****.

Yeah the free agent class is absolutely awful. Probably the worst in a long long time.
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2017 Roster 

Post#43 » by Iheartfootball » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:59 am

wichmae wrote:
trwi7 wrote:I can't for the life of me figure out why we would spend money on a free agent 3B or really any free agent because this class is so ****.

Yeah the free agent class is absolutely awful. Probably the worst in a long long time.


What if the guy is decent and you sign him short (1-2 years) in the hopes of flipping him? Buy a prospect at the deadline this year or next.

Gotta sprinkle in a few vets. All young guys doesn't work (see Packers, Bucks - half joking). They need someone to show em how it's done.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#44 » by trwi7 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:05 am

A decent guy this year is going to get 3 or 4 years because some team will get stupid and desperate and overpay.

And we don't need vets. I don't even know why we have a coaching staff if we need players to teach other players. Let Counsell earn his money.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#45 » by wichmae » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:02 am

Iheartfootball wrote:
wichmae wrote:
trwi7 wrote:I can't for the life of me figure out why we would spend money on a free agent 3B or really any free agent because this class is so ****.

Yeah the free agent class is absolutely awful. Probably the worst in a long long time.


What if the guy is decent and you sign him short (1-2 years) in the hopes of flipping him? Buy a prospect at the deadline this year or next.

Gotta sprinkle in a few vets. All young guys doesn't work (see Packers, Bucks - half joking). They need someone to show em how it's done.

This is why you go after NRI players like the Boyer's and Torres'. Quite literally guys who should get make good deals are going to get massively paid. When guys like Valbuena, Rajai Davis, Napoli and Brandon Moss are the headliners its an easy steer clear for me. There will be a few under radar guys who could be a nicer target if some get non tendered. The class is completely atrocious to the point that anyone worthwhile like you suggest will be priced out to not making any sense. Perfect time to sell away guys like Carter, Scooter, Maldy, or Kirk. Perfect storm to cash in on mediocre assets.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#46 » by El Duderino » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:28 am

wichmae wrote:This is why you go after NRI players like the Boyer's and Torres'. Quite literally guys who should get make good deals are going to get massively paid. When guys like Valbuena, Rajai Davis, Napoli and Brandon Moss are the headliners its an easy steer clear for me.


Yea fans of some team will turn on their computer and see Andrew Cashner signs 5yr/90 million dollar deal with that team because he throws hard and ummm that's about it.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#47 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:47 pm

I'm sure they won't sign anyone if the market is inflated as some of you expect. I want to reiterate that I'd prefer to trade several vets and pseudo-tank next year, too. Don't want to get backed into some kind of corner where I feel like I'm arguing in favor of it when all I'm saying is that I could see them doing it.

I never felt this nucleus was anywhere near as bad as most people thought going into this season. Expectations were artificially low due in large part to not taking into account Braun and Luc's terrible 2015 campaigns, among other things. And I don't think they project to be worse than 12th in the draft next year either unless they make some offseason trades, so if they keep everyone and add a guy like Valbuena I wouldn't be shocked if they make a run at a wild card. I wouldn't bet on it, but I could see why Mark A and company might think it's plausible.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#48 » by Outlander » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:33 pm

I have seen no indication that Stearns has any intention of going for it. He continues to trade assets and until he shows he is no longer doing that I don't see any way they make a run at a wild card. If they don't trade the likes of Gennett, Braun, Nelson, Guerra, Thornburg this off season then they very well may try to win in 2017.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#49 » by coolhandluke121 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:20 pm

Outlander wrote:I have seen no indication that Stearns has any intention of going for it. He continues to trade assets and until he shows he is no longer doing that I don't see any way they make a run at a wild card. If they don't trade the likes of Gennett, Braun, Nelson, Guerra, Thornburg this off season then they very well may try to win in 2017.


It hasn't really been a fire-sale though. If you look at every deal, they're mostly trading guys they don't think they can re-sign, guys on the decline, guys they have a replacement for, etc. Parra was expiring. Ramirez was expiring and washed-up. Ditto Hill. Gomez was bombing and it was their last chance to get something for him. Smith was struggling and is up for a nice arbitration raise. Lucroy wasn't going to re-up and it wouldn't have been wise for the Brewers to do so anyway. Davis had to be cleared to have room for Braun and Santana. Gallardo was pretty much done. What they're doing now is paying attention to the warning signs when a player's skills are declining, which I love, but they're not tearing it down.

And when they did trade guys, they often got guys who were close to being ready to replace other guys that were traded. They haven't left many huge holes in the roster, instead patching them with respectable players whenever possible. Gomez out, Phillips in. Before his bad year, Phillips was looked at as the clear cf of the future. Hader is waiting in the wings to be the stud lefty reliever who replaces Smith. They signed Carter to replace Lind. Susac's bat will probably help replace some of Luc's production soon. Nelson and Peralta might have been worth something last offseason but they didn't have any means of replacing them so they kept them. You could argue they might not have traded JJ if they didn't have TT.

I think there's plenty of evidence that they're trying to stay respectable while also re-stocking the farm, and now that they have arguably the best farm system in baseball it wouldn't surprise me at all if they change their tune a little. I hope they keep rebuilding but they're already getting close to the point where space on the 40-man could be limited and you'll have to start burning service time, not to mention struggling for appropriate placements for all their prospects. The rebuild is well ahead of schedule and I see lots of evidence that the Brewers have been keeping their options open.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#50 » by Outlander » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:06 pm

They still traded a couple of real nice bullpen pieces in Jeffress and Thornburg with plenty of control left. Traded Davis to make room for Santana but also for the prospects. They traded a fairly young player in Segura for a low A prospect. Since the rebuild is not complete I expect a number of trades this off season as well because there are still players on this team that are on the decline or have replacements for in the future. That is kind of the point of the rebuild to acquire replacements for the guys they currently have on the roster. With the exception of Davies, Villar, Santana and Arcia this team is still filled with players that need to be replaced before there is any thought of playoffs.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#51 » by M-C-G » Mon Oct 3, 2016 5:21 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:
Outlander wrote:I have seen no indication that Stearns has any intention of going for it. He continues to trade assets and until he shows he is no longer doing that I don't see any way they make a run at a wild card. If they don't trade the likes of Gennett, Braun, Nelson, Guerra, Thornburg this off season then they very well may try to win in 2017.


It hasn't really been a fire-sale though. If you look at every deal, they're mostly trading guys they don't think they can re-sign, guys on the decline, guys they have a replacement for, etc. Parra was expiring. Ramirez was expiring and washed-up. Ditto Hill. Gomez was bombing and it was their last chance to get something for him. Smith was struggling and is up for a nice arbitration raise. Lucroy wasn't going to re-up and it wouldn't have been wise for the Brewers to do so anyway. Davis had to be cleared to have room for Braun and Santana. Gallardo was pretty much done. What they're doing now is paying attention to the warning signs when a player's skills are declining, which I love, but they're not tearing it down.

And when they did trade guys, they often got guys who were close to being ready to replace other guys that were traded. They haven't left many huge holes in the roster, instead patching them with respectable players whenever possible. Gomez out, Phillips in. Before his bad year, Phillips was looked at as the clear cf of the future. Hader is waiting in the wings to be the stud lefty reliever who replaces Smith. They signed Carter to replace Lind. Susac's bat will probably help replace some of Luc's production soon. Nelson and Peralta might have been worth something last offseason but they didn't have any means of replacing them so they kept them. You could argue they might not have traded JJ if they didn't have TT.

I think there's plenty of evidence that they're trying to stay respectable while also re-stocking the farm, and now that they have arguably the best farm system in baseball it wouldn't surprise me at all if they change their tune a little. I hope they keep rebuilding but they're already getting close to the point where space on the 40-man could be limited and you'll have to start burning service time, not to mention struggling for appropriate placements for all their prospects. The rebuild is well ahead of schedule and I see lots of evidence that the Brewers have been keeping their options open.


I'm not really buying this, I mean we have moved guys for a series of teenagers in deals too.

2015 GP
Lind - gone
Segura - gone
Braun - shopped
Khris Davis - gone
Scooter - should be gone
Luc - gone
Parra - gone

GS
Nelson
Lohse - gone
Garza - can't wait to trade
Jungmann - sigh
Fiers - gone
Peralta - controllable

Bullpen appearences
K Rod - gone
Jeffress - gone
Will Smith gone

As an organization, I don't know how you can possibly say we haven't turn this thing down to the nuts and bolts. The only guys we haven't traded are Braun, Scooter and Garza, other than controllable arms.

For reference

2016
Carter
Villar
Scooter
Braun
Niewunheis
Perez
Flores

GS
Nelson
Chase
Davis
Peralta
Junior
Garza

Bullpen
Torres
Thornburg
Boyer
Jeffress
Marinez

That is a tear down dude.

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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#52 » by LarryHarris » Tue Oct 4, 2016 5:45 pm

Would we consider moving Villar to 3rd full time or does he just not have the pop?

Gotta figure that with Scooter/Isan Diaz, there may not be a long-term role there for Villar, but he has produced this year and if this ins't an aberration, it'd be nice if we could keep him--also, not sure we have anyone in the minors that projects to be a plus-3rd baseman.

It would be great if they could get something for Carter, however Stearns said he will be back next year.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#53 » by wichmae » Tue Oct 4, 2016 8:26 pm

Diaz just completed his first full season in A ball. He's two years at minimum away from being an MLB level player. Once Diaz is up which is most likely 2018 or 2019 season Villar will be going into his arby years. Thats when you cash in Villar (unless you get an insane offer you cant refuse). The issue for him is he most likely is going to have to play second exclusively. He isnt a very good defensive player and a full time 3rd baseman he really is not. His profile fits second much better. Scooter really shouldnt be considered in any decision making. He is first year arby eligible and not a long term piece. Erceg is the 3rd baseman of the future and is on the same timeline as Diaz. Trade Scooter move Villar to 2nd and play Perez at 3rd every day. Theres really no reason with all the OF depth we have to force Perez out there. Caveat to this all is what trades are made over the winter.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#54 » by coolhandluke121 » Tue Oct 4, 2016 9:04 pm

M-C-G wrote:
I'm not really buying this, I mean we have moved guys for a series of teenagers in deals too.

2015 GP
Lind - gone
Segura - gone
Braun - shopped
Khris Davis - gone
Scooter - should be gone
Luc - gone
Parra - gone

GS
Nelson
Lohse - gone
Garza - can't wait to trade
Jungmann - sigh
Fiers - gone
Peralta - controllable

Bullpen appearences
K Rod - gone
Jeffress - gone
Will Smith gone

As an organization, I don't know how you can possibly say we haven't turn this thing down to the nuts and bolts. The only guys we haven't traded are Braun, Scooter and Garza, other than controllable arms.

For reference

2016
Carter
Villar
Scooter
Braun
Niewunheis
Perez
Flores

GS
Nelson
Chase
Davis
Peralta
Junior
Garza

Bullpen
Torres
Thornburg
Boyer
Jeffress
Marinez

That is a tear down dude.


You undermine your argument in a big way by comparing this year's roster to last year's. I mean, they were better this year than last. This is not a tear-it-down ("tid"), bottoming-out job. Atlanta is a tid. The Brewers put a reasonably competent team out there this year. A -62 run differential with their trades and injuries is not a tid. A tid slams the door on any chances of respectability for a few years. The Brewers haven't done that at all. Just because you trade a bunch of vets doesn't mean you're tearing it down. They made a big organizational shift and went young, but they kept one eye towards staying competitive.

The only regulars with more than 130 pa's and an OPS+ under 88 were Maldonado, Arcia, and Flores. A tid team has more automatic outs in the lineup.

A tid team doesn't hold out for better offers for Braun. And even the one offer they apparently considered was a young guy not very far removed from being an all-star as recently as 2 years ago - one who could step in and at least have a chance to replace some of Braun's production immediately, mind you.

The only vets they traded without getting at least one player in return who was likely to be mlb-ready within a year or less were Davis and Lind - but they turned right around and signed Carter to replace Lind, and they had Braun and Santana to replace Davis, while adding Kirk for depth. There would be at least a few more trades like Lind and Davis if they were really a tid team.

Look how they tried to trade Gomez for Wheeler/Flores before they had to go to plan B, which meant giving up a pitcher they could probably spare for arguably a much better but less mlb-ready package. They wanted to trade away less current mlb talent and add more.

Or look how they tried to get a good package for Luc alone, only including a reliever when they had to in order to get a fair offer. Look at all the rumors that the scouts recommended more young prospects before they decided on Brinson. Not that I'm complaining, but that's supposedly how it went down. And the PTBNL is 24.

Even Aaron Hill and Chase Anderson went into the season as starters. A tid team trades for guys like Wilkerson and has to start them the next week. They have guys like Reed and Goforth and Cravy on the 25-man for much of the year.

With all the trades they've made, you can hardly find any where they didn't get a player who started this year or should/could start next year. And they tried to give up fewer current contributors in a few of those deals. It's too much of a trend to ignore. They did trade lots of contributors but they stayed respectable and had an entire team of guys who at least gave them a chance of being successful. Even guys like Scooter and Kirk had shown some flashes in previous seasons.

They didn't tear-it-down. It was an extensive remodeling and facelift, true. They got rid of lots of contributors who didn't have a long-term future here, but they added a lot of guys who could and who were ready to start contributing sooner than later. Their performance this year supports that, and I wouldn't be surprised if they improve a little next year too. I see an overwhelming amount of evidence that they're not interested in a true bottoming-out job here. A tid team hardly cares who's in the lineup or rotation for a few years. There's no evidence the Brewers feel that way, and there's plenty of evidence that Mark A is too competitive to allow something like that; even though he has been willing to shift his team-building philosophy, he's done so in a way that could allow them to compete again soon. They generally only give up on the current season when they do make trades, and this goes a long ways back.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#55 » by M-C-G » Tue Oct 4, 2016 9:22 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
I'm not really buying this, I mean we have moved guys for a series of teenagers in deals too.

2015 GP
Lind - gone
Segura - gone
Braun - shopped
Khris Davis - gone
Scooter - should be gone
Luc - gone
Parra - gone

GS
Nelson
Lohse - gone
Garza - can't wait to trade
Jungmann - sigh
Fiers - gone
Peralta - controllable

Bullpen appearences
K Rod - gone
Jeffress - gone
Will Smith gone

As an organization, I don't know how you can possibly say we haven't turn this thing down to the nuts and bolts. The only guys we haven't traded are Braun, Scooter and Garza, other than controllable arms.

For reference

2016
Carter
Villar
Scooter
Braun
Niewunheis
Perez
Flores

GS
Nelson
Chase
Davis
Peralta
Junior
Garza

Bullpen
Torres
Thornburg
Boyer
Jeffress
Marinez

That is a tear down dude.


You undermine your argument in a big way by comparing this year's roster to last year's. I mean, they were better this year than last. This is not a tear-it-down ("tid"), bottoming-out job. Atlanta is a tid. The Brewers put a reasonably competent team out there this year. A -62 run differential with their trades and injuries is not a tid. A tid slams the door on any chances of respectability for a few years. The Brewers haven't done that at all. Just because you trade a bunch of vets doesn't mean you're tearing it down. They made a big organizational shift and went young, but they kept one eye towards staying competitive.

The only regulars with more than 130 pa's and an OPS+ under 88 were Maldonado, Arcia, and Flores. A tid team has more automatic outs in the lineup.

A tid team doesn't hold out for better offers for Braun. And even the one offer they apparently considered was a young guy not very far removed from being an all-star as recently as 2 years ago - one who could step in and at least have a chance to replace some of Braun's production immediately, mind you.

The only vets they traded without getting at least one player in return who was likely to be mlb-ready within a year or less were Davis and Lind - but they turned right around and signed Carter to replace Lind, and they had Braun and Santana to replace Davis, while adding Kirk for depth. There would be at least a few more trades like Lind and Davis if they were really a tid team.

Look how they tried to trade Gomez for Wheeler/Flores before they had to go to plan B, which meant giving up a pitcher they could probably spare for arguably a much better but less mlb-ready package. They wanted to trade away less current mlb talent and add more.

Or look how they tried to get a good package for Luc alone, only including a reliever when they had to in order to get a fair offer. Look at all the rumors that the scouts recommended more young prospects before they decided on Brinson. Not that I'm complaining, but that's supposedly how it went down. And the PTBNL is 24.

Even Aaron Hill and Chase Anderson went into the season as starters. A tid team trades for guys like Wilkerson and has to start them the next week. They have guys like Reed and Goforth and Cravy on the 25-man for much of the year.

With all the trades they've made, you can hardly find any where they didn't get a player who started this year or should/could start next year. And they tried to give up fewer current contributors in a few of those deals. It's too much of a trend to ignore. They did trade lots of contributors but they stayed respectable and had an entire team of guys who at least gave them a chance of being successful. Even guys like Scooter and Kirk had shown some flashes in previous seasons.

They didn't tear-it-down. It was an extensive remodeling and facelift, true. They got rid of lots of contributors who didn't have a long-term future here, but they added a lot of guys who could and who were ready to start contributing sooner than later. Their performance this year supports that, and I wouldn't be surprised if they improve a little next year too. I see an overwhelming amount of evidence that they're not interested in a true bottoming-out job here. A tid team hardly cares who's in the lineup or rotation for a few years. There's no evidence the Brewers feel that way, and there's plenty of evidence that Mark A is too competitive to allow something like that; even though he has been willing to shift his team-building philosophy, he's done so in a way that could allow them to compete again soon. They generally only give up on the current season when they do make trades, and this goes a long ways back.


I think it feels like less of a tear down because we had so many guys emerge (unexpectedly), but whatever. I think what I am calling a tear down you call tanking it down. I think if you were able to get an honest answer from Stearns on how many games they would win this year, it was probably far less than we did.

As for Braun, he needed to rehab his value. I think there is a difference in trading guys at all cost to be bad enough for a top pick and tearing it down in a rebuild. But again, that is the semantic line we are on opposite sides of here.

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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#56 » by coolhandluke121 » Tue Oct 4, 2016 9:39 pm

M-C-G wrote:
I think it feels like less of a tear down because we had so many guys emerge (unexpectedly), but whatever. I think what I am calling a tear down you call tanking it down. I think if you were able to get an honest answer from Stearns on how many games they would win this year, it was probably far less than we did.

As for Braun, he needed to rehab his value. I think there is a difference in trading guys at all cost to be bad enough for a top pick and tearing it down in a rebuild. But again, that is the semantic line we are on opposite sides of here.


Semantics is part of it, yes. I reserve "tear-it-down" for gutting the team and being really bad. This roster may be very different from before and much younger, but I don't think they punted on multiple future seasons and I could see them trying to improve next season.

I don't know to what extent Stearns expected and wanted this kind of success, but I prefer to think he and the scouting department acquired the guys they did because they're really frickin' good at their jobs and thought other teams were under-valuing them, not because they were lucky. Until their trades stop regularly working out so well, I'm going to continue to feel that way, and since they're regularly acquiring mlb-ready talent, the only consistent interpretation for me is that they're trying to be as good as possible as long as they don't compromise their long-term success. That's the key shift. They're trying to build long-term success, which they weren't doing before, but they're not using a bottoming-out strategy to achieve that end.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#57 » by El Duderino » Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:48 am

coolhandluke121 wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
I think it feels like less of a tear down because we had so many guys emerge (unexpectedly), but whatever. I think what I am calling a tear down you call tanking it down. I think if you were able to get an honest answer from Stearns on how many games they would win this year, it was probably far less than we did.

As for Braun, he needed to rehab his value. I think there is a difference in trading guys at all cost to be bad enough for a top pick and tearing it down in a rebuild. But again, that is the semantic line we are on opposite sides of here.


Semantics is part of it, yes. I reserve "tear-it-down" for gutting the team and being really bad. This roster may be very different from before and much younger, but I don't think they punted on multiple future seasons and I could see them trying to improve next season.


This team easily could have had a much worse record.

Villar came pretty much out of nowhere to have an amazing season given what could have been expected. Same for Perez, just to a lesser degree. Carter was consistent all season. Guerra was a 31 year old flier who gave the rotation 20 quality starts. Davies kept the team in most of his starts. Lucroy was great before the deadline trade.

The bullpen though IMO was the biggest key in the team not finishing quite a bit worse. Thornburg was dominant much of the season. Jeffress really good before the trade. Torres came of the scrap heap and pitched fabulously, while being used a lot. Guys like Boyer and Marinez were solid. Often bad and rebuilding teams have a terrible bullpen. Switch our bullpen for say the Reds and we are picking around the 3rd to 5th range.

If the Brewers are going to be good sooner than expected, it will largely be because of young players in the minors coming up and being good quickly, Villar/Santana/Broxton types building on skills shown this year, Arcia hitting better, but most importantly, putting together a much better rotation. Someone like Hader has to be good. Then Stearns has to find an undervalued starter or two that pitches better as a Brewer, kinda like an Arrieta situation with the Cubs, but lesser results. That was a mix a nice scouting and plenty of luck for the Cubs in him becoming that good. It does happen fairly often though in baseball where a player is mediocre to bad with one team and for whatever reason, is significantly better after finding a new home.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#58 » by M-C-G » Wed Oct 5, 2016 11:45 am

El Duderino wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
I think it feels like less of a tear down because we had so many guys emerge (unexpectedly), but whatever. I think what I am calling a tear down you call tanking it down. I think if you were able to get an honest answer from Stearns on how many games they would win this year, it was probably far less than we did.

As for Braun, he needed to rehab his value. I think there is a difference in trading guys at all cost to be bad enough for a top pick and tearing it down in a rebuild. But again, that is the semantic line we are on opposite sides of here.


Semantics is part of it, yes. I reserve "tear-it-down" for gutting the team and being really bad. This roster may be very different from before and much younger, but I don't think they punted on multiple future seasons and I could see them trying to improve next season.


This team easily could have had a much worse record.

Villar came pretty much out of nowhere to have an amazing season given what could have been expected. Same for Perez, just to a lesser degree. Carter was consistent all season. Guerra was a 31 year old flier who gave the rotation 20 quality starts. Davies kept the team in most of his starts. Lucroy was great before the deadline trade.

The bullpen though IMO was the biggest key in the team not finishing quite a bit worse. Thornburg was dominant much of the season. Jeffress really good before the trade. Torres came of the scrap heap and pitched fabulously, while being used a lot. Guys like Boyer and Marinez were solid. Often bad and rebuilding teams have a terrible bullpen. Switch our bullpen for say the Reds and we are picking around the 3rd to 5th range.

If the Brewers are going to be good sooner than expected, it will largely be because of young players in the minors coming up and being good quickly, Villar/Santana/Broxton types building on skills shown this year, Arcia hitting better, but most importantly, putting together a much better rotation. Someone like Hader has to be good. Then Stearns has to find an undervalued starter or two that pitches better as a Brewer, kinda like an Arrieta situation with the Cubs, but lesser results. That was a mix a nice scouting and plenty of luck for the Cubs in him becoming that good. It does happen fairly often though in baseball where a player is mediocre to bad with one team and for whatever reason, is significantly better after finding a new home.


This is pretty much where I was at on this season. Lots of people outperformed their expectations IMO.

Something special is happening — and it’s not happening because of a couple of lucky bounces. It’s happening because my guys are for real.

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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#59 » by coolhandluke121 » Wed Oct 5, 2016 1:35 pm

M-C-G wrote:
This is pretty much where I was at on this season. Lots of people outperformed their expectations IMO.


They outperformed most fans' and pundits' expectations but how do we know they outperformed the front office's? I think the scouting has just been terrific. That's the most parsimonious explanation for it. They've done too well on these under-the-radar pickups to chalk it all up to luck.

They had some bad luck, too. Peralta, Nelson, Garza, and Jungmann all have pitched very well at times over the last 3 years, so they all easily could have been better. Smith and Santana weren't available much, and Braun missed about 25 games.

A bottoming-out team goes into the season with guys like Cravy, Goforth, Pina, and Reed on the roster from day 1. This team gave themselves a puncher's chance of being successful. I have every reason to believe that was done consciously, because they could have easily rebuilt and stock-piled minor league talent without staying somewhat competitive. Look at Cincy, Atlanta, and SD, for example; it seems every time you looked up, one of them had traded a productive vet regardless of whether they had a decent stopgap replacement or not. The Brewers haven't really done that. They have consistently trended towards getting older, mlb-ready prospects or even current major-leaguers, and they have tried to get more in deals that fell through (Wheeler, Wilmer, Puig for example).

I guess we'll know more by what they do this offseason, but I have a very strong hunch they will continue to try to put a competitive option out there at every position. They might trade Garza, but Anderson, Nelson, Peralta, Davies, and Guerra all deserve another year to prove they belong. They might trade Braun, but I'd bet they get a guy like Yasmani Tomas or Mac Williamson or Puig when they do - and they won't flip that player until Cordell or Phillips is ready.They'll trade Scooter because Villar can play 2b - or they'll keep Scooter so they don't make Arcia a super-2, and then trade him when Arcia is called up a few months into the season. That's how I see them rolling. I'd rather they rebuilt completely, but as long as the scouting is so incredibly effective I can't complain.
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Re: 2017 Roster 

Post#60 » by M-C-G » Wed Oct 5, 2016 1:48 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
This is pretty much where I was at on this season. Lots of people outperformed their expectations IMO.


They outperformed most fans' and pundits' expectations but how do we know they outperformed the front office's? I think the scouting has just been terrific. That's the most parsimonious explanation for it. They've done too well on these under-the-radar pickups to chalk it all up to luck.

They had some bad luck, too. Peralta, Nelson, Garza, and Jungmann all have pitched very well at times over the last 3 years, so they all easily could have been better. Smith and Santana weren't available much, and Braun missed about 25 games.

A bottoming-out team goes into the season with guys like Cravy, Goforth, Pina, and Reed on the roster from day 1. This team gave themselves a puncher's chance of being successful. I have every reason to believe that was done consciously, because they could have easily rebuilt and stock-piled minor league talent without staying somewhat competitive. Look at Cincy, Atlanta, and SD, for example; it seems every time you looked up, one of them had traded a productive vet regardless of whether they had a decent stopgap replacement or not. The Brewers haven't really done that. They have consistently trended towards getting older, mlb-ready prospects or even current major-leaguers, and they have tried to get more in deals that fell through (Wheeler, Wilmer, Puig for example).

I guess we'll know more by what they do this offseason, but I have a very strong hunch they will continue to try to put a competitive option out there at every position. They might trade Garza, but Anderson, Nelson, Peralta, Davies, and Guerra all deserve another year to prove they belong. They might trade Braun, but I'd bet they get a guy like Yasmani Tomas or Mac Williamson or Puig when they do - and they won't flip that player until Cordell or Phillips is ready.They'll trade Scooter because Villar can play 2b - or they'll keep Scooter so they don't make Arcia a super-2, and then trade him when Arcia is called up a few months into the season. That's how I see them rolling. I'd rather they rebuilt completely, but as long as the scouting is so incredibly effective I can't complain.


I simply said earlier, that if you were able to get an honest answer from Stearns before the season, I think he would have predicted far fewer wins. It was just my opinion.

Again, I didn't consider a tear down and a bottoming out to be the same thing, not sure how much more we want to rehash it. I also could see a scenario where we continue to acquire undervalued pieces and couple them with our youth and see how things shake out, that seems plausible regardless if it is a good long term idea or not.

I do think that bullpen almost universally having a great season led to a lot of unexpected wins, especially given how bad our opening day starting pitchers flopped this year. If those guys get right for next year, you either have a lot of quality trade pieces or you have a team that might be capable of winning significantly more games.

Something special is happening — and it’s not happening because of a couple of lucky bounces. It’s happening because my guys are for real.

JABARI PARKER

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