2018 Brewers Transactions: Acquire Cedeno, Gio, Granderson

[WeekapaugGroove]

Time to make fun of everyone for their bad old takes on the Lind trade:

(It starts on page 10, I’m on my phone and too lazy to get the right link right now):

2015-16 Off Season Thread -Stearns: "We aren't tanking" PG 17
viewtopic.php?t=1408918

Baseball is a funny unpredictable sport. With the state of the rotation and how peralta looked he should be given a chance to stay up as long as he's effective. Big if, but if he does peralta could end up having the quickest impact of any if the prospects stearns has traded for and of all the trades this was the one that nobody thought would have anywhere close to a quick impact.

[Gianstoppable]

If only JT Realmuto wouldnt cost a boat load. Adding a guy like Realmuto and maybe a Lowrie into our lineup would be a massive spark. Add in Jimmy (who knows) and Peralta or Burnes pitch decent this team can make a nice run

Cole Hamels could be a guy that could be had at a reasonable price considering he makes 23.5 million this year with a 20 million team option next year and a 6 mil buyout. I would be on board with a move for Hamels, hes been pitching pretty well lately and outside of last year has been very reliable. What would he cost prospects wise?

Imagine if you could swing all three just for fun

Cain
Yelich
Realmuto
Shaw
Lowrie
Thames/Aguilar
Santana/Braun
Arcia

Hamels
Nelson?
Anderson
Davies
Peralta/Burnes/Chacin

That team with our bullpen could make a legit run to the World Series.

[Kerb Hohl]

If only JT Realmuto wouldnt cost a boat load. Adding a guy like Realmuto and maybe a Lowrie into our lineup would be a massive spark. Add in Jimmy (who knows) and Peralta or Burnes pitch decent this team can make a nice run

Cole Hamels could be a guy that could be had at a reasonable price considering he makes 23.5 million this year with a 20 million team option next year and a 6 mil buyout. I would be on board with a move for Hamels, hes been pitching pretty well lately and outside of last year has been very reliable. What would he cost prospects wise?

Imagine if you could swing all three just for fun

Cain
Yelich
Realmuto
Shaw
Lowrie
Thames/Aguilar
Santana/Braun
Arcia

Hamels
Nelson?
Anderson
Davies
Peralta/Burnes/Chacin

That team with our bullpen could make a legit run to the World Series.

I would not be against grabbing Lowrie if the price is a "well, he's an old rental player" type of thing...similar to what Neil Walker was acquired for.

That said, I think we need to be careful with expectations for him.

I'm assuming he got back to better health and had a .277/.360/.448 line with 16 homers last year. That's pretty nice and the homers/slugging may take a bit of a jump in Miller Park.

He's also 34 and after the insane BABIP/ISO way out of wack with career norms this year, he's back to likely getting on that pace and has not been good this past month. He has a good hard hit %, so maybe his BABIP and ISO will stay on their late career bounce.

Hamels, if the cost is just eating the salary, I guess we could do worse, but he's also basically Jhoulys Chacin with a bit more strikeout power. We'll move towards zero flexibility next year even if we just pay his buyout. I do see the upside that he may be a guy like Verlander last year that as a vet can ramp it up 2nd half/playoffs and be dominant.

I'd say that while I get that at some point we want to make a run, let's be careful early on in this thing. I don't want to give up 2 good/great prospects for Realmuto, a decent one for Lowrie, and another decent one for Hamels and suddenly we still miss the playoffs or lose the Wild Card game and have cleared out our farm system.

You have Burnes listed in the depth chart and I think you can probably take him out of there if we acquire Realmuto. He or Hiura would be going to Miami. Probably not both but you never know.

[wichmae]

Were on Hamels no trade list so we'd have to see if he waived that. At this point I'd rather trot Villar out there every day. His defense is a complete liability hence the benching weeks ago but he's figured out the bat. Arcia is somewhat of an issue right now. I know the bat has been a struggle bu if he isnt going to play every day we got to send him to AAA to get regular AB's and just give Orf a shot. DFA Franklin or Asher. Realmuto is going to cost a TON. Probably more than Luc did with his 2 years of control after this (Luc had one). So youre probably not getting him without including one of Hiura or Burnes plus more. I just cant do that. Yan Gomes, John Hicks, and Wilson Ramos would have lower costs.

[Kerb Hohl]

Arcia is somewhat of an issue right now. I know the bat has been a struggle bu if he isnt going to play every day we got to send him to AAA to get regular AB's and just give Orf a shot.

You're likely replacing a **** bat with an equally **** bat in Orf (with less upside than Arcia turning his bat around) but taking away the good/great defense that Arcia brings if you want Orf at SS.

There's a reason that Orf is passed up in the Rule 5 every year and veteran AAAA guys get opportunities over him at every turn in the organization. He will be an awful hitter in the majors most likely. Tommy La Stella is his ceiling and I doubt he'd get even close to that given that La Stella has a major upper hand as a lefty hitter and hilariously double the power that Orf has.

[wichmae]

Arcia is somewhat of an issue right now. I know the bat has been a struggle bu if he isnt going to play every day we got to send him to AAA to get regular AB's and just give Orf a shot.

You're likely replacing a **** bat with an equally **** bat in Orf (with less upside than Arcia turning his bat around) but taking away the good/great defense that Arcia brings if you want Orf at SS.

There's a reason that Orf is passed up in the Rule 5 every year and veteran AAAA guys get opportunities over him at every turn in the organization. He will be an awful hitter in the majors most likely. Tommy La Stella is his ceiling and I doubt he'd get even close to that given that La Stella has a major upper hand as a lefty hitter and hilariously double the power that Orf has.

Saladino and Villar play the bulk. You arent burning service days with him in AAA versus sitting on the bench doing nothing. Bring Sogard back up then idk. Leaving your 23 year old former #1 prospect on the bench every day is a dumb play no matter how you rationalize it. He needs AB's to turn things around. We went through this last year when Sogard came up. Villar got buried and never could regain any confidence at the plate without regular AB's.

[Kerb Hohl]

Arcia is somewhat of an issue right now. I know the bat has been a struggle bu if he isnt going to play every day we got to send him to AAA to get regular AB's and just give Orf a shot.

You're likely replacing a **** bat with an equally **** bat in Orf (with less upside than Arcia turning his bat around) but taking away the good/great defense that Arcia brings if you want Orf at SS.

There's a reason that Orf is passed up in the Rule 5 every year and veteran AAAA guys get opportunities over him at every turn in the organization. He will be an awful hitter in the majors most likely. Tommy La Stella is his ceiling and I doubt he'd get even close to that given that La Stella has a major upper hand as a lefty hitter and hilariously double the power that Orf has.

Saladino and Villar play the bulk. You arent burning service days with him in AAA versus sitting on the bench doing nothing. Bring Sogard back up then idk. Leaving your 23 year old former #1 prospect on the bench every day is a dumb play no matter how you rationalize it. He needs AB's to turn things around. We went through this last year when Sogard came up. Villar got buried and never could regain any confidence at the plate without regular AB's.

He's still getting a a fair amount of games in (Arcia). If you really wanted to get him a full number of at bats I would just not call up another infielder since you have Perez, Saladino, and Villar that can all play SS. I'd rather not go with Sogard or Orf because they are not plus defenders and they are terrible bats.

That said, there isn't much of a better a better option and he is still a good defensive player so I'd just leave him up. He's had a bit of bad luck with BABIP and ISO so he's not this bad at the plate. He'll probably have a little hot streak coming up here and regain his 90-95% role.

[El Duderino]

He's still getting a a fair amount of games in (Arcia). If you really wanted to get him a full number of at bats I would just not call up another infielder since you have Perez, Saladino, and Villar that can all play SS. I'd rather not go with Sogard or Orf because they are not plus defenders and they are terrible bats.

It's only been a brief time with the Brewers, but watching Saladino, the reports of him being really good defensively sure looks to be true.

[sdn40]

Random update
Brinson is hitting .164 with 159 AB's thus far

[wichmae]

Random update
Brinson is hitting .164 with 159 AB's thus far

Isan is hitting .194 in AA and Monte finally cracked .240 in AA. Yamamoto has yet to play due to injury.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Random update
Brinson is hitting .164 with 159 AB's thus far

Isan is hitting .194 in AA and Monte finally cracked .240 in AA. Yamamoto has yet to play due to injury.

Yeah it's been a rough start for that group. It's not like they have been overplaced either since where they are at was the next step for each guy.

[Bernman]

How good of a starting pitcher under contract at least thru next season do the Brewers get for an offer of Aguilar/Thames, Broxton/Phillips, and Ray/Erceg. I would think they'd get at least a #2 starter. Could you get an ace to match-up in the playoffs? I'd especially hate to see Aguilar go. He's an excellent hitter/find, but he'd have even more value in the American League, you have to give up something to get it, and it'd be a trade from strength.

Random update
Brinson is hitting .164 with 159 AB's thus far

Reinforces it was a mistake to take him over the 4 "lesser" prospects from Texas. But it makes turning around and dealing him as part of a package himself wasn't a mistake. Quickly realized their assessment he was the next Carlos Beltran was wrong and made the adjustment.

[Kerb Hohl]

How good of a starting pitcher under contract at least thru next season do the Brewers get for an offer of Aguilar/Thames, Broxton/Phillips, and Ray/Erceg. I would think they'd get at least a #2 starter. Could you get an ace to match-up in the playoffs? I'd especially hate to see Aguilar go. He's an excellent hitter/find, but he'd have even more value in the American League, you have to give up something to get it, and it'd be a trade from strength.

Doubt that happens.

How many teams would want Aguilar or Thames (old-ish) and be dangling a a #2 starter? Teams that would trade for those guys would likely be contending and would not be willing to just hand away a top pitcher.

Broxton does not hold much value. Phillips may but it’s in the eye of the beholder.

In theory the value may all add up, but I don’t see any logical scenario to make it happen.

[Bernman]

If the combo is Aguilar/Ray/Phillips, I'm asking for an ace. Aguilar is on the cheap, not very old, and raking. He especially has value as a DH in the American. Ray is doing pretty well this season, has upside, and pedigree. It's not that different from packages which were dealt for impact players in recent years.

[Kerb Hohl]

If the combo is Aguilar/Ray/Phillips, I'm asking for an ace. Aguilar is on the cheap, not very old, and raking. He especially has value as a DH in the American. Ray is doing pretty well this season, has upside, and pedigree. It's not that different from packages which were dealt for impact players in recent years.

Ok, well it’s not gonna happen unless Aguilar keeps this up for a long time and I still don’t think that’s enough.

Ray’s turnaround is nice but he is not projected to be a star by any means at this point.

A heavily rebuilding team that has an ace (are there any?) is probably 2-3 years away from being in contention probably isn’t trading for a fat DH that will be 31 or 32 with 2-3 years left of control at that point is not what they’re looking for to be the centerpiece.

And again, no contending team is trading their ace pitcher for a DH.

I noted on there are promising signs that Aguilar really has become a great hitter in the other thread, but you still don’t get massive value “because a guy is raking right now.”

Parra for Davies might be as close as it gets for fleecing a team and Davies has probably hit his ceiling as a good #3-4ish starter, because that was no sure thing.

I believe(d) in the reformed Yonder Alonso, who yes, only had 1 year left on his deal, but was “raking” last year and was traded for a bag of baseballs.

[wichmae]

I think youre underselling Corey Ray's value a little bit. He was a consensus top 10 pick in a strong class, and while he did get off to a slower start he has shown close to the same projectable tools this season that he did at Louisville. Prospect value really retains pretty well.

[Kerb Hohl]

I think youre underselling Corey Ray's value a little bit. He was a consensus top 10 pick in a strong class, and while he did get off to a slower start he has shown close to the same projectable tools this season that he did at Louisville. Prospect value really retains pretty well.

He's 23 and in AA, so even with his turnaround, he still has a ways to go.

I'm struggling to find a great comp. Maybe Brett Gardner?

.260/.330/.420 with 15 HR and ~30 SB as a prime ceiling and he apparently is not a great fielder even with the speed.

Gardner struck out less but Ray I guess has a bit more raw power.

[dbrodz7]

Random update
Brinson is hitting .164 with 159 AB's thus far

Isan is hitting .194 in AA and Monte finally cracked .240 in AA. Yamamoto has yet to play due to injury.

Yeah it's been a rough start for that group. It's not like they have been overplaced either since where they are at was the next step for each guy.

When I first read this I thought it said "Ransom update" which also would have been very fitting.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Just as a hypothetical:

If we head towards the trade deadline solidly in front of the division (I don't think this is likely but you never know), what, if anything, would you be willing to give up to rent Manny Machado? There's no denying his bat at our weakest position is a perfect fit if we are in a position to try and go for it this year. Since it would be a 100% pure rental, curious what an acceptable package would be to get him, or if most wouldn't bother no matter what (twirly).

[ReasonablySober]

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