2020-21 Brewers Offseason Thread: JBJ Signed - 2 Years $24 Million, 1 Year Opt Out

MiCo7 · Post #81 » by **MiCo7** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:17 am

I'm probably on board with trading Hader but wouldn't Yelich have to be traded as well? A Hader trade is a rebuild?

LittleRooster wrote:
tski1972 wrote:I still feel Hader is being traded this off season.

I hope so

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-T510 using RealGM mobile app

trwi7 · Post #82 » by **trwi7** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:30 am

Gotta keep Hader until he blows out or falls off a cliff and then trade him to the Dodgers for cash or a PTBNL.

LittleRooster · Post #83 » by **LittleRooster** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:22 pm

trwi7 wrote:Gotta keep Hader until he blows out or falls off a cliff and then trade him to the Dodgers for cash or a PTBNL.

I see what you did here

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Outlander · Post #84 » by **Outlander** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:41 pm

MiCo7 wrote:I'm probably on board with trading Hader but wouldn't Yelich have to be traded as well? A Hader trade is a rebuild?
LittleRooster wrote:
tski1972 wrote:I still feel Hader is being traded this off season.

I hope so

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-T510 using RealGM mobile app

Yelich has a full no-trade clause.

leroyjw10 · Post #85 » by **leroyjw10** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:06 pm

Outlander wrote:
MiCo7 wrote:I'm probably on board with trading Hader but wouldn't Yelich have to be traded as well? A Hader trade is a rebuild?
LittleRooster wrote:I hope so

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-T510 using RealGM mobile app

Yelich has a full no-trade clause.

I don't think a Hader trade marks a rebuild, especially if we get good young corner infielders in return. With Williams and a bunch of other good young arms, I don't think our bullpen falls off *that* much. As good as Hader still is, it feels like he's gotten slightly worse each of the last two seasons. Better to trade when his value is high.

Kerb Hohl · Post #86 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:24 pm

I know it sucks to waste a year of Yelich's prime, but given how quickly Attanasio likes to work with rebuilds, we can go back to 2015/2016 when the Brewers traded away Gomez and Lucroy and they were bordering on a World Series in 2018.

With Woodruff, Williams, etc. I don't think the Brewers will be bad the next 2 years but they could deal Hader (and maybe other valuable pieces, not sure which ones are left).

In 2023, Woodruff will have 2 years left of control, Burnes 3...Yelich would be the only non-arbitration player on the books. They could make another Cain/Yelich splash and Yelich will be 31 for that season.

Not ideal, I'd always be open to a tear-down rebuild but we know it's not going to happen...so I guess some futile attempts to win out of the bargain bin after trading Hader in 2021 and 2022 followed by a new 2-3 year window starting in 2023 would be my next best bet.

MiCo7 · Post #87 » by **MiCo7** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:45 pm

Good point

Kerb Hohl wrote:I know it sucks to waste a year of Yelich's prime, but given how quickly Attanasio likes to work with rebuilds, we can go back to 2015/2016 when the Brewers traded away Gomez and Lucroy and they were bordering on a World Series in 2018.

With Woodruff, Williams, etc. I don't think the Brewers will be bad the next 2 years but they could deal Hader (and maybe other valuable pieces, not sure which ones are left).

In 2023, Woodruff will have 2 years left of control, Burnes 3...Yelich would be the only non-arbitration player on the books. They could make another Cain/Yelich splash and Yelich will be 31 for that season.

Not ideal, I'd always be open to a tear-down rebuild but we know it's not going to happen...so I guess some futile attempts to win out of the bargain bin after trading Hader in 2021 and 2022 followed by a new 2-3 year window starting in 2023 would be my next best bet.

Sent from my SM-T510 using RealGM mobile app

Kerb Hohl · Post #88 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:36 pm

Leo Crawford comes back on the Knebel trade as PTBNL.

No idea if he's a guy ever expected to make the majors, but it does look like there is some strikeout potential there.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #89 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:49 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Leo Crawford comes back on the Knebel trade as PTBNL.

No idea if he's a guy ever expected to make the majors, but it does look like there is some strikeout potential there.

Seems like the brewers have done a decent job finding under the radar pitchers in trades and waivers so that's gives gives me some optimism.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

trwi7 · Post #90 » by **trwi7** » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:41 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:Leo Crawford comes back on the Knebel trade as PTBNL.

No idea if he's a guy ever expected to make the majors, but it does look like there is some strikeout potential there.
Seems like the brewers have done a decent job finding under the radar pitchers in trades and waivers so that's gives gives me some optimism.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Like who? Guerra, maybe Peralta and that's about it?

DrWood · Post #91 » by **DrWood** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:04 am

Kerb Hohl wrote:Leo Crawford comes back on the Knebel trade as PTBNL.

No idea if he's a guy ever expected to make the majors, but it does look like there is some strikeout potential there.

He was compared to Suter as a soft-tossing lefty with deception. Based on his 2019 stats, he should have been ready for a callup in 2021, but I don't know what he did in Nicaragua in 2020.

upside is a 5th starter.

Kerb Hohl · Post #92 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:51 pm

trwi7 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:Leo Crawford comes back on the Knebel trade as PTBNL.

No idea if he's a guy ever expected to make the majors, but it does look like there is some strikeout potential there.
Seems like the brewers have done a decent job finding under the radar pitchers in trades and waivers so that's gives gives me some optimism.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Like who? Guerra, maybe Peralta and that's about it?

Pomeranz for sure.

Chacin sucked later but was a good modest signing. Miley, Gio, Jeffress was somewhat of a scrap heap pickup at the time. Knebel had risks when they got him, though that was Melvin.

Who knows if some of them like Miley and Gio were basically just lucky portions of seasons that the Brewers at least correctly used for shorter durations.

Not really arguing against you, just throwing some names out there.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #93 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:05 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
trwi7 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Seems like the brewers have done a decent job finding under the radar pitchers in trades and waivers so that's gives gives me some optimism.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Like who? Guerra, maybe Peralta and that's about it?

Pomeranz for sure.

Chacin sucked later but was a good modest signing. Miley, Gio, Jeffress was somewhat of a scrap heap pickup at the time. Knebel had risks when they got him, though that was Melvin.

Who knows if some of them like Miley and Gio were basically just lucky portions of seasons that the Brewers at least correctly used for shorter durations.

Not really arguing against you, just throwing some names out there.

Yeah I'd say them and even guys like Topa and Yardley were pretty servacable last year and Phelps was a nice scrap heap find before dealing him.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Kerb Hohl · Post #94 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:13 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:
trwi7 wrote:
Like who? Guerra, maybe Peralta and that's about it?

Pomeranz for sure.

Chacin sucked later but was a good modest signing. Miley, Gio, Jeffress was somewhat of a scrap heap pickup at the time. Knebel had risks when they got him, though that was Melvin.

Who knows if some of them like Miley and Gio were basically just lucky portions of seasons that the Brewers at least correctly used for shorter durations.

Not really arguing against you, just throwing some names out there.
Yeah I'd say them and even guys like Topa and Yardley were pretty servacable last year and Phelps was a nice scrap heap find before dealing him.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Right...and again, there are guys like Pomeranz where they clearly saw something or Jeffress where he was revived and made improvements in that player, but obviously if you look at any team in a 5-year window they will accidentally make the right move on some random bullpen guys.

But it does feel like they have some grip on something with pitching, defense, or analytics, because I feel like the Brewers under Stearns have always outkicked their coverage of what it felt like the talent was at pitcher under Stearns.

Most of the good Melvin in pitching involved a lot of $ like 2014 (Garza, Lohse, K-Rod) and/or paying dearly for big names (Greinke, Marcum, CC, etc.).

leroyjw10 · Post #95 » by **leroyjw10** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:51 pm

Based on Passan's latest ESPN article, it looks like the White Sox, Dodgers, Astros, Mets and Blue Jays are in the market for a closer. A few Hader trade options. I'd target either the White Sox or Blue Jays, both of which seem to be all-in next year.

White Sox
1B Andrew Vaughn (top prospect, #13 prospect in MLB)
RHP Michael Kopech (#18 in MLB)
3B Jake Burger (injury history, but power)
RP Aaron Bummer (lefty with 13.5 K/9 in 9 MLB innings last year)

Dodgers
3B Kody Hoese
C Diego Cartaya
1B/3B Matt Beaty
RHP Josiah Gray (top prospect, #62 in MLB)

Astros
Not much to get excited about

Mets
3B Brett Baty (#88 in MLB)
C Francisco Alvarez
3B JD Davis (hit 22 MLB HRs in 2019)

Blue Jays
RHP Nate Pearson (top prospect, #6 in MLB)
SS/3B Jordan Groshans (#70 in MLB)
C Alejandro Kirk

trwi7 · Post #96 » by **trwi7** » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:15 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
trwi7 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Seems like the brewers have done a decent job finding under the radar pitchers in trades and waivers so that's gives gives me some optimism.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Like who? Guerra, maybe Peralta and that's about it?

Pomeranz for sure.

Chacin sucked later but was a good modest signing. Miley, Gio, Jeffress was somewhat of a scrap heap pickup at the time. Knebel had risks when they got him, though that was Melvin.

Who knows if some of them like Miley and Gio were basically just lucky portions of seasons that the Brewers at least correctly used for shorter durations.

Not really arguing against you, just throwing some names out there.

Pomeranz was a good reliever before the Brewers and not just the 4 outings or whatever it was with the Giants either. Gio was like top 10 in Cy Young voting coming off an almost 4 WAR season a year before the Brewers traded for him.

Kerb Hohl · Post #97 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:04 am

trwi7 wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:
trwi7 wrote:
Like who? Guerra, maybe Peralta and that's about it?

Pomeranz for sure.

Chacin sucked later but was a good modest signing. Miley, Gio, Jeffress was somewhat of a scrap heap pickup at the time. Knebel had risks when they got him, though that was Melvin.

Who knows if some of them like Miley and Gio were basically just lucky portions of seasons that the Brewers at least correctly used for shorter durations.

Not really arguing against you, just throwing some names out there.

Pomeranz was a good reliever before the Brewers and not just the 4 outings or whatever it was with the Giants either. Gio was like top 10 in Cy Young voting coming off an almost 4 WAR season a year before the Brewers traded for him.

Maybe I'm arguing against the public fan here, but he had **** numbers due to his start of the season in the rotation. Stearns saw the opportunity and acquired him for a scrub utility infielder. And remember there was anarchy to the casual fan because Stearns traded a utility infielder batting .343 in AAA for a reliever with a 5.24 ERA.

LittleRooster · Post #98 » by **LittleRooster** » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:56 am

Kerb Hohl wrote:
trwi7 wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:
Pomeranz for sure.

Chacin sucked later but was a good modest signing. Miley, Gio, Jeffress was somewhat of a scrap heap pickup at the time. Knebel had risks when they got him, though that was Melvin.

Who knows if some of them like Miley and Gio were basically just lucky portions of seasons that the Brewers at least correctly used for shorter durations.

Not really arguing against you, just throwing some names out there.

Pomeranz was a good reliever before the Brewers and not just the 4 outings or whatever it was with the Giants either. Gio was like top 10 in Cy Young voting coming off an almost 4 WAR season a year before the Brewers traded for him.

Maybe I'm arguing against the public fan here, but he had **** numbers due to his start of the season in the rotation. Stearns saw the opportunity and acquired him for a scrub utility infielder. And remember there was anarchy to the casual fan because Stearns traded a utility infielder batting .343 in AAA for a reliever with a 5.24 ERA.

People were also upset they didn’t get Will Smith instead

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Post #99 » by **ReasonablySober** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:42 pm

One of the gifts I got my folks was McCalvy's Brewers at 50 years hardcover book. It's really pretty great.

M-C-G · Post #100 » by **M-C-G** » Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:50 pm

I am basically throwing last years horrific batting stats out the window. Seems like our pitching is about as good as it has ever been with good TOR and good bullpen.

So that said, I am down with moving Hader for a premium 3B player/prospect. Seems like we've struggled forever to lock down that position and if we could find a young stud there, it would really bring together things, because I like the changes Arcia has made, Urias looks like he will be pretty good and I overall like our OF.

So that is my way of saying, let's add one big, cost controlled piece and bring it back. I think if the bats rebound, we will be pretty good.