So it wasn't Graffanino or Estrada. Who was it?

trwi7 · Post #1 » by **trwi7** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 6:56 am

Story

Kind of sounds like it was Hardy. Why him and why now? Why not Suppan after one of his horrible starts? Why not Weeks when he was with the team? Why not Vargas? Why not Cordero?

Kudos to Estrada and Graffanino for this.

schweig · Post #2 » by **schweig** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 7:27 am

Yeah, that error sucked my nuts especially counting what happened after, but it would have a tough play even if it didn't bounce away from him. He's seemed more human in the field the last handful of weeks, but it seems like there wouldn't be grounds for going off on him unless he hasn't been working hard or something. Too many pool parties at Johnny Estrada's?

And about that, I'm glad that other Johnny Cancer theory saw a bump in the road so soon. Sure, he's pissed me off at times lately and he can't seem to throw many guys out, but he's right around his career numbers. Striking out a little bit more, still not much, and I'm sure he wishs he could match 2004 too. Who knows what he's meant to the pitching staff, some of their numbers don't look so hot, but to call the guy a cancer right away based on some weakass leaps is something else.

Back to your questions, about why him and now. I guess the timing seems okay, coming off another bad road trip and stinking at home too. Looking at the runs scored/allowed (520/485) I think you've got a point about yelling at a pitcher. Giving up just under 4.5 a game isn't the worst but that's where most of the money is going and too many of them haven't been getting it done lately.

I guess there's a good chance we'll never know for sure, or at least maybe until the "25th anniversary - Ned's Nine: 82-game winners" hologram super HD-DVD in 2032.

http://www.last.fm/user/DPF55 · Post #3 » by **Buck You** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 8:37 am

trwi7 wrote:Story

Kind of sounds like it was Hardy. Why him and why now? Why not Suppan after one of his horrible starts? Why not Weeks when he was with the team? Why not Vargas? Why not Cordero?

Kudos to Estrada and Graffanino for this.

Your link doesn't work.

trwi7 · Post #4 » by **trwi7** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 8:43 am

ReddBogutCharlieV wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Your link doesn't work.

Okay screw the fancy stuff then. :lol:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=642049

whatthe_buck!? · Post #5 » by **whatthe_buck!?** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 9:01 am

Come on, this article must be Ned and a few of the Brewers' vets trying to cover up the true cause of the conflict (which is pretty much want you would want and expect from professionals). The argument clearly was instigated by Yost, and it most likely begin with Ned calling out Johnny for stretching the single to a double. Why else would Ned spend time trying to praise and make nice with Estrada if the main dispute wasn't between the two of them? Read between the lines of these Yost quotes from the article-

"Johnny is a competitor and a 'gamer' and plays to win," Yost said. "He doesn't care about anything else. He's out there to win.

"That's why I respect Johnny as a player. He's not here to make friends. He's here to win ball games. That's what I really like about Johnny."

EDIT: I would, however, like to know exactly when the altercation happened. I was under the impression that it happened between the eighth and ninth innings, but if it happened in the middle of the 7th than maybe it is true that the fight started because of the Hardy error.

Post #6 » by **MickeyDavis** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 12:18 pm

For all the criticism Yost gets for being too much of a "players manager", it's good to see some fire from him. Certainly the pressure is getting to him and the players. Incidents like this can turn a team around....or lead them right down the toilet. We'll see what happens.

livestrong4ever · Post #7 » by **livestrong4ever** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 2:07 pm

trwi7 wrote:Story

Kind of sounds like it was Hardy. Why him and why now? Why not Suppan after one of his horrible starts? Why not Weeks when he was with the team? Why not Vargas? Why not Cordero?

Kudos to Estrada and Graffanino for this.

How do you know he didn't get in suppans face. or weeks. or vargas or coderos. Are you in the club house? Only reason this is coming out is because of what happend yesterday.

SportsWorld · Post #8 » by **SportsWorld** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 2:33 pm

Stop copying us :wink:

goirish2107 · Post #9 » by **goirish2107** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 3:35 pm

if anyone listened to the 1250 post game, i was matt the idiot from bay who thought that it was sheets and estrada going at it in the dugout. :oops:

although they told me it wasn't, i still say it looked like it to me. but anyways, i have no idea what to make of the whole thing. i'm gonna guess that the jsonline article doesn't tell the whole story. it really didn't look like it was someone (or ever graffy and johnny) coming to the defense of someone (ie. hardy). graffy was real pissed at the situation, you could see him shaking his head a lot after it was all over. sheets was really into it, he may or may not have been holding estrada back, but he was scowling, pointing, and yelling at him. i dunno, but like i said on the radio, any emotion like this i think is good for the team.

bigkurty · Post #10 » by **bigkurty** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 4:35 pm

We need a video clip of this thing if anyone has got one.

Ayt · Post #11 » by **Ayt** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 5:20 pm

My guess is that it was Hardy. He's needed to get his head back in the game for a couple months now, and Ned finally decided to lay into him a bit.

cam2win · Post #12 » by **cam2win** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 5:23 pm

It's about time someone showed some emotion on this team. Whether they do behind doors is irrelevant to me. I want to see it come out on the field from someone not named Prince.

I get tired of hearing the same BS comments about how everything is alright and we'll get 'em tomorrow. I know Yost doesnt' want to cause contreversy but I want them to be pissed about there play and what has happened. We had this division and as of today we don't even control our own destiny any more.

Whether it was Graffy, Estrada, Hardy....I really don't care who started it. But I am glad to see them stand up for each other. So I solute all of them. Hopefully they can turn this aggression into a positive on the field.

livestrong4ever · Post #13 » by **livestrong4ever** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 6:59 pm

cam2win wrote:It's about time someone showed some emotion on this team. Whether they do behind doors is irrelevant to me. I want to see it come out on the field from someone not named Prince.

I get tired of hearing the same BS comments about how everything is alright and we'll get 'em tomorrow. I know Yost doesnt' want to cause contreversy but I want them to be pissed about there play and what has happened. We had this division and as of today we don't even control our own destiny any more.

Whether it was Graffy, Estrada, Hardy....I really don't care who started it. But I am glad to see them stand up for each other. So I solute all of them. Hopefully they can turn this aggression into a positive on the field.

I think this proves Yost does get on his players BEHIND CLOSE DOORS, just not in the media. I would rather much have it that way.

trwi7 · Post #14 » by **trwi7** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 7:39 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

How do you know he didn't get in suppans face. or weeks. or vargas or coderos. Are you in the club house? Only reason this is coming out is because of what happend yesterday.

Well I know he didn't with Suppan the way he gushes over his 5 IP 4 ER starts and calls them great.

Just why now? Why only one player when the whole team is playing like garbage?

whatthe_buck!? · Post #15 » by **whatthe_buck!?** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 10:55 pm

livestrong4ever wrote:I think this proves Yost does get on his players BEHIND CLOSE DOORS, just not in the media. I would rather much have it that way.

Maybe so, but it also further proves that Yost is not judicious. Instead of singling out Estrada for not hustling to first with the bases loaded in the eighth inning of a tie game, or singling out Hardy for his clearly lackadaisical play during the last month (is it obvious to anyone else that JJ's late night partying and drinking is catching up to him?), he chose to -in effect- publicly berate Johnny for successfully stretching a single to a double (or, depending on what you believe triggered this incident, Hardy for making an insignificant error in a game that was already out of hand).

And by the way, no one has yet answered my question about when exactly the dugout altercation occurred, is it possible that no one can remember? Someone must know, right?

trwi7 · Post #16 » by **trwi7** » Fri Aug 3, 2007 11:02 pm

It happened in the bottom of the 7th.

whatthe_buck!? · Post #17 » by **whatthe_buck!?** » Sat Aug 4, 2007 12:03 am

trwi7 wrote:It happened in the bottom of the 7th.

I guess I was dead wrong about my Estrada hypothesis. But that doesn't mean I'm not still upset about they way Yost handled the situation.

whatthe_buck!? · Post #18 » by **whatthe_buck!?** » Sat Aug 4, 2007 12:35 am

I think I have it figured out. It was Villanueva that was the "younger guy" who was getting yelled at by Yost before Estrada and Graffy came to his defense. What better reason would Estrada have for coming to the defense of another player than to defend a guy for whom he was calling the pitches?

Post #19 » by **humanrefutation** » Sat Aug 4, 2007 4:25 am

In case it hasn't been mentioned, it was, in fact, J.J. Hardy.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=642420

livestrong4ever · Post #20 » by **livestrong4ever** » Sat Aug 4, 2007 5:42 am

whatthe_buck!? wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Maybe so, but it also further proves that Yost is not judicious. Instead of singling out Estrada for not hustling to first with the bases loaded in the eighth inning of a tie game, or singling out Hardy for his clearly lackadaisical play during the last month (is it obvious to anyone else that JJ's late night partying and drinking is catching up to him?), he chose to -in effect- publicly berate Johnny for successfully stretching a single to a double (or, depending on what you believe triggered this incident, Hardy for making an insignificant error in a game that was already out of hand).

And by the way, no one has yet answered my question about when exactly the dugout altercation occurred, is it possible that no one can remember? Someone must know, right?

How do you know he didn't do all of these things he can talk to players while they are not on camera you know like he always does. Looks like what he did thursday was on purpose calling out a single playing while the cameras were rolling to get some people to step up.