Claudio Vargas- Most bloated W/L ever?

http://www.last.fm/user/DPF55 · Post #1 » by **Buck You** » Tue Aug 7, 2007 9:51 pm

Does this guy, with 9 wins and 4 losses, have the most bloated record that you can remember? He sure has one of the most bloated that I can think of. Think of this guy on a team where his team didn't score runs for him, he'd be 2-11 right now. His ERA is fricken 4.97 for god sakes. This guy is so lucky he's on a winning team. He should be in the bullpen.

brewcityboii · Post #2 » by **brewcityboii** » Tue Aug 7, 2007 10:02 pm

ReddBogutCharlieV wrote:Does this guy, with 9 wins and 4 losses, have the most bloated record that you can remember? He sure has one of the most bloated that I can think of. Think of this guy on a team where his team didn't score runs for him, he'd be 2-11 right now. His ERA is fricken 4.97 for god sakes. This guy is so lucky he's on a winning team. He should be in Triple A.

Fixed

Post #3 » by **MickeyDavis** » Tue Aug 7, 2007 10:05 pm

As each game becomes more important he's absolutely sucked his last two starts. Why in the world won't we give Manny a spot. Oh yes we have to protect his arm. Maybe 25 years from now we'll have another shot at the playoffs.

Vargas is pitching as if he's not worried about his spot in the rotation.

Ayt · Post #4 » by **Ayt** » Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:51 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:As each game becomes more important he's absolutely sucked his last two starts. Why in the world won't we give Manny a spot. Oh yes we have to protect his arm. Maybe 25 years from now we'll have another shot at the playoffs.

Vargas is pitching as if he's not worried about his spot in the rotation.

Didn't Parra blow his arm out a few years ago? I wouldn't push him too much considering his potential.

Plus, he didn't pitch many innings last year at only 86. He's already at 121.1 this year. We are already pushing him really hard.

trwi7 · Post #5 » by **trwi7** » Tue Aug 7, 2007 11:59 pm

Ayt wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Didn't Parra blow his arm out a few years ago? I wouldn't push him too much considering his potential.

Plus, he didn't pitch many innings last year at only 86. He's already at 121.1 this year. We are already pushing him really hard.

Yes he did.

bigkurty · Post #6 » by **bigkurty** » Wed Aug 8, 2007 12:09 am

yeah personally I am not willing to risk his or Gallardo's arms. The main problems we have really is the relievers anyway and with them sucking this bad, no matter how good Gallardo and Parra would be as full time starters, they would not help all that much unless they pitched complete games anyway with the pen as is.

BTW, I have no faith in this team anymore in case you all haven't noticed.

Fort Minor · Post #7 » by **Fort Minor** » Wed Aug 8, 2007 12:12 am

Randy Johnson has a 17-11 record with a 5.00 ERA in his last season with the Yankees.

I don't see Vargas getting 17 wins, but it's quite possible that he ends up with a higher win % while hovering around that 5 ERA mark.

Post #8 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed Aug 8, 2007 1:11 am

Sometimes having a regular 6-7 inning stint every 5 days is easier on the arm than sporadic relief appearances.

Ayt · Post #9 » by **Ayt** » Wed Aug 8, 2007 1:43 am

MickeyDavis wrote:Sometimes having a regular 6-7 inning stint every 5 days is easier on the arm than sporadic relief appearances.

Maybe. Its sounds to me like you are just pulling this out of the air.

I thinking putting the strain of 90-100 pitches on your arm in a few hours is much worse than 10-20 or maybe 40 or so in an inning or two a few times a week. Studies on pitching injuries show that once guys get into the high pitch count level, 90-100+, their risk of injury goes up significantly, which is understandable given the strain the arm is under after throwing that many pitches.

So, yeah, I'd prefer to see Parra and Gallardo in the pen so we don't destroy two of our best assets.

Post #10 » by **MickeyDavis** » Wed Aug 8, 2007 2:47 am

I'm not pulling it out of the air at all. That's why some pitchers have developed arm trouble going from the rotation to the pen or the pen to the rotation. Some (Eckersley, Smoltz) have had no problems doing both.

It's not all about pitch counts. Too many fans (and managers) are obsessed with that number and only that number.

Milwaukee'sBEST · Post #11 » by **Milwaukee'sBEST** » Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:46 am

At first I was fine with sending Yovani back to the pen when Benny comes back, but with our terrible rotation we need another solid starter. Obviously, his long term growth will probably benefit from low pitch counts, but I agree with MD we need to win now!

Ayt · Post #12 » by **Ayt** » Wed Aug 8, 2007 7:11 am

MickeyDavis wrote:I'm not pulling it out of the air at all. That's why some pitchers have developed arm trouble going from the rotation to the pen or the pen to the rotation. Some (Eckersley, Smoltz) have had no problems doing both.

It's not all about pitch counts. Too many fans (and managers) are obsessed with that number and only that number.

For good reason. There have been studies done on this, which shouldn't come as a surprise.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=2633

The Keith Woolner mentioned in the article now works for the Indians.

It seems intuitively obvious that the pitchers most at risk are starters because they are putting so much more strain on their arms as they get into high pitch counts. As a pitcher in HS, I can say I probably could have pitched one inning every day with no problems, but after a full 7 innings my arm was dead for a couple days. The strain of 6-9 MLB innings on the arm isn't comparable to an inning or two out of the pen a few times a week.