Why is Mike Maddux getting a pass?

[WEFFPIM]

Yost is taking a ton of heat for the recent (if it can be considered recent) slump, Jim Skaalen gets a little criticism when the offense goes south, yet when the pitching, both starting and bullpen, rams headlong into barbed wire like it has been the last 3 weeks or so, there's no mention of Mike Maddux being somewhat at fault. Now I don't have the specific stats (because I don't friggin' feel like it, deal with it), but you all know how bad this pitching has been. It's been brutal, truly brutal. Pitching the Brewers right out of games from the get-go, or handing the game to the opposition later in the game, there's been nothing good to look at outside of Gallardo (sans today), Parra (sans Sunday), or Linebrink in his 3 appearances with the team.

Mike Maddux has done wonders for this pitching staff in his career, but now that he has a staff of quality arms that a team can lean on when utilized correctly, it's costing the Brewers dearly. A staff of a healthy Ben Sheets, Chris Capuano, Dave Bush, Jeff Suppan, Yovani Gallardo, and even Claudio Vargas, and a bullpen consisting of young studs in Villanueva and Parra, lock 'em down guys in Linebrink and Turnbow, and a stellar closer in Cordero, should not be THIS bad. I can understand hiccups along the way, but this is suffocating and gasping for air.

I feel as though that Maddux's previous work is giving him a free ride in this under achievement from the pitchers, and it should be mentioned. Does Yost mismanage the pitching staff? At times, every manager does. But it shouldn't result in a loss every single game, and that should fall on the pitching coach and the pitchers themselves. Mike Maddux shouldn't be getting looked over right now.

Babbling over, awaiting harsh criticism, you vultures.

[Ryan5UW]

No harsh criticism from me, I've been starting to wonder the same thing for the past couple of weeks. Its very hard to pull a starting pitcher who through 5 innings only gives up 2 or 3 hits. The starters, for the most part, have collapsed so fast after a good start that there isn't much Ned could really do about it, other than rolling the dice on taking out a pitcher who has, up to that point, been pitching well.

[trwi7]

I feel as though that Maddux's previous work is giving him a free ride in this under achievement from the pitchers, and it should be mentioned.

Bingo and he'll continue to get a free pass.

[WEFFPIM]

Bingo and he'll continue to get a free pass.

So is that a "you believe Maddux shouldn't be criticized?" or a "he should, be won't be criticized, because of his previous work?"

[trwi7]

-= original quote snipped =-



So is that a "you believe Maddux shouldn't be criticized?" or a "he should, be won't be criticized, because of his previous work?"

It's a he should but won't be criticized because of his previous work.

[WEFFPIM]

It's a he should but won't be criticized because of his previous work.

Glad we're on the same page. Now get off my page, your fat ass is taking up too much room

[El Duderino]

IMO pitching and hitting coaches get to much credit and flack for how their players as a group perform on the major league level.

In the minors these guys are teaching more raw and young kids,what can be learned is higher.By the times players reach the big leagues,they are much more a finished product.I'm not saying some tweaking of a hitters can't improve them or say finding a flaw in a pitchers delivery can't help,but overall these coaches can only do so much.

A big reason the team is struggling has been less than stellar performances of the more veteran players and those guys are at points in their careers where a coach doesn't have alot left to fix or change.

[MickeyDavis]

Good post. I don't know exactly what the batting and pitching coaches can do 2/3 of the way into the season. Unless their are mechanical flaws that can be corrected the bottom line is the pitching has plain sucked. Now if some of these guys are doing something a lot different from earlier in the season then sure, the coaches should notice and correct.

[jakecronus8]

I just blame Ned. Easy target.

[whatthe_buck!?]

I just blame Ned. Easy target.

Ned has control over the make up of his staff, right? So in a sense, jakecronus8, it is not wrong to take this view (I'm assuming you are not being sarcastic here, but I know I could be wrong).

~Don't worry, livestrong, I'm not criticizing Yost, I'm just explaining why I think that criticizing Yost in this regard isn't completely illogical. There is a difference. I have not forgotten that I made a pledge not get on Yost's case for a week (three days to go) if the Brewers won the game on Saturday (which I attended), and I intend to keep that promise, no matter how difficult it is for me to do .~

[El Duderino]

I just blame Ned. Easy target.

I certainly think in baseball which is largely a one on one game,managers can only have so much impact on winning or losing,talent trumps all.With that said,there is a disturbing trend of Yost managed teams the last three years in that they are brutal on the road and have second half collapses.

Now the players/GM all play a role in this,but i won't just excuse Yost from the equation either.I'm not in the Yost has to go camp,but i won't mind one bit if he's replaced.I see nothing from him to make me believe that Ned being gone would hurt the franchise.

[humanrefutation]

I this this is an excellent topic to discuss. I personally believe we should be scrutinizing Mike Maddux's job with this rotation. However, I think we need to take into account the influx of talent this staff has recieved and the limited time Maddux has had a chance to work with them. Gallardo and Parra just came up, and Linebrink has just been acquired, so we can't hand hold Maddux accountable for their mistakes. When it comes to Turnbow and Cordero, the problems they're suffering from do not stem from Maddux's tutelege...rather their issues have plagued them throughout their careers. I would be more likely to praise Maddux for reigning them in when he could've rather than letting them fall apart. As for Suppan...I said it before the season and I stand by it...he's never been that great of a pitcher. He's always been inconsistent and up-and-down. Even last season he was horrendous in the first half for the Cards before turning it up for the second half. He's also a veteran pitcher. While Maddux should show him the ropes if needed, he's also been there and done that, and has to figure it out.

Now, when it comes to Cappy, Bush, Vargas, Villanueva, and others, Maddux needs to be held accountable. He's had plenty of time to work with them. Cappy, Bush, and Villaneuva were a part of our roster last season (for at least a part of the season), while he had spring training to work with Vargas.

As for Matt Wise...no one is responsible for his output other than Matt. He's got psychological issues since he hit that Cincinatti Red in the head, and he'll need to overcome that on his own.

[El Duderino]

Now, when it comes to Cappy, Bush, Vargas, Villanueva, and others, Maddux needs to be held accountable. He's had plenty of time to work with them. Cappy, Bush, and Villaneuva were a part of our roster last season (for at least a part of the season), while he had spring training to work with Vargas.

Vargas--Not sure what could be done with him.He's a 5th starter with a good fastball,but he's struggled with command his whole career.Put 5 different pitching coaches with Vargas and my guess is he'll always be the same 4.75ish ERA type of pitcher.

Bush--I don't think Maddux can do anything about the stuff Bush has,he just doesn't throw hard and never will.He does have nice command though,as evidenced by low walks and an ability to limit baserunners.If Bush somehow can learn to avoid getting those hits bunched together so much,he'll be more effective.Maybe it's a mental thing Maddux can help,who knows though.I've wondered if pitching from the stretch causes Bush to be less effective,but i'm sure that's been studied by the team.

Villanueva--I think he's just gassed,his velocity and command are both way down.IMO the guy needs some rest more than any mechanical issue.

Cappy--Frustrating pitcher.Is Maddux partially at fault for Capuano being so erratic?That i don't know,but something is wrong there because he's stagnated and even regressed.

[Asher]

strangely enough, i take maddux off the hook for this. if you watch the games, you see in the dugout that maddux moves ever closer to the bullpen phone alot, while yost remains dead-eye dick (no pun intended). maddux was responsible for most of these guys coming to fruition, and now he's responsible for them falling apart. but how much is dependent on yost making the call? i think we all see that yost waits about two-three batters too long to make the change, and that costs us and our pitchers dearly. if maddux can't pull the plug when he's ready to, then how can he motivate and teach guys who consistently get shelled?

[goirish2107]

i don't think the pitching staff is being handled well at all. if these guys are pitching great through five, of course you don't take them out. the problem there is obviously mental, and its not just one guy. i have no idea how the whole team seems to play exactly the same, offense, defense, pitching, whatever. i guess thats good, but not when most of the output is bad. but anyways, thats just it. the only common denominator with the pitching staff is the coaching staff. they are not helping the guys get through this wall. yeah they're professionals and should be able to do what they're paid to do, but coaches are paid to do just this, help the psychological end of the spectrum. on top of that, when pitchers give up 4, 5, 6 hell, 11 runs early, take them the eff out. ned always waits too long. i think that there needs to be a change of some sort. not necessarily firing someone, but what they are doing is NOT working. it hasn't been working for a long time, and they need to figure it out. case in point two days ago. cappy going great through 5, comes in the 6th and starts to melt down, only offspeed pitches, all over the middle. and ned just leaves him there 2, 3 or so batters too long. by this point in the season he needs to either figure out how to get him through that point of the game, or learn to get his ass out. all this sitting and saying we gotta fight through it, yadda yadda, its **** enough.

[whatthe_buck!?]

strangely enough, i take maddux off the hook for this. if you watch the games, you see in the dugout that maddux moves ever closer to the bullpen phone alot, while yost remains dead-eye dick (no pun intended). maddux was responsible for most of these guys coming to fruition, and now he's responsible for them falling apart. but how much is dependent on yost making the call? i think we all see that yost waits about two-three batters too long to make the change, and that costs us and our pitchers dearly. if maddux can't pull the plug when he's ready to, then how can he motivate and teach guys who consistently get shelled?

I'm happy that you're finally starting to see the light.

[Buck You]

The Brewers really have a bunch of average pitchers that were overachieving earlier in the season. Look at Bush, Vargas, Capuano and Suppan, they are all average pitchers with average stuff. It's just a shame really that they pitched so well in the beginning raising our expectations of them. But even if they are average there really is no excuse for the pitching of late. How, when you are a major league pitcher, can you go through 5 innings fine and then totally melt down in the 6th? Yes, I'm talking to you Capuano and Vargas. If you are getting tired, tell Yost that in the dugout, or just go on the DL. If you get tired pitching 5 innings in a major league game when you are a pro you shouldn't be pitching. Also with Vargas, he pitches so dumb. Why does he always throw pitches in the strike zone when has two strikes? That's just common knowledge, throw it out of the zone. Suppan just well, is Suppan. He's an average pitcher that got overpaid because of his post season. But Capuano and Vargas should be better than this right now, they are pitiful.