The Santana discussions

[Luv those Knicks]

Deolis Guerra, along with center fielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber have been offered and the Twins want F-Mart to be added.


Would you do it? Or is F-Mart too much? I'm leaning towards the "that's too much" side of the fence and I'd offer a lesser prospect, but not F-Mart.

[yaomac11-1]

too much!!! F-mart and Gomez, Mulvey and Humber. that was pushin it. Guerra now. Why does Minaya want to trade away our great future???

[Jose7]

I'd give all 5 for Johan Santana.

It's not even close really. I love our prospects (the top 3 in the offer) but with a core of reyes, wright, beltran, perez, maine and santana for the next 5+ years would be amazing. And think about santana vs all those lefties from the Braves and Phillies espescially. my god please, get this done. I can give a **** about prospects when you are talking about johan santana.

[blueNorange]

I don't wanna give up that much but if it happens, I won't complain.

Just do it already ... I'm sick of this boring offseason.

[DocZaius]

I don't trust Wilpon enough to give up that much for Santana.

If Johan comes out and asks for a King's ransom (which he probably will), I can see Cheapon backing out and our franchise's future is ****.

[krustytheclown]

who gives a **** if its too much? its the best pitcher in baseball..its not every day that chance presents itself

[larryclown]

What if scenario??

We give up all those prospects, and Santana gets hurt? Everyone that says just do it now will be calling for Minaya's head. I think its to risky to mortgage off the future for a great pitcher. If something goes wrong you cant wait until the deadline to make a deal because the farm system will be empty

[Luv those Knicks]

What if scenario??

We give up all those prospects, and Santana gets hurt? Everyone that says just do it now will be calling for Minaya's head. I think its to risky to mortgage off the future for a great pitcher. If something goes wrong you cant wait until the deadline to make a deal because the farm system will be empty

or Maybe Santana pulls a Mike Hampton - has an average year, then signs with another team. I don't mind giving up 2 OF projects provided we pull back one of the pitching prospects. But the Twins are asking for too much.

[Luv those Knicks]

Today's NYTimes said the mets would never consider 5 prospects for Santana. That they were interested, but not at that cost. THe mets wouldn't even confirm that they made the 4 prospect offer.

[bringinhinkie]

too much

offseason:

out: guerra,fmart,gomez,milledge,humber,mulvey
in: santana, shneider, church

farm is completely depleted, santana is nearing 30(29 by season start) and will also demand a 125mil+ contract and is coming off his worst year since he blew up.. FIVE(maybe four) top prospects? u guys got to be kidding me, sound like old yankee fans

[yaomac11-1]

too much

offseason:

out: guerra,fmart,gomez,milledge,humber,mulvey
in: santana, shneider, church

farm is completely depleted, santana is nearing 30(29 by season start) and will also demand a 125mil+ contract and is coming off his worst year since he blew up.. FIVE(maybe four) top prospects? u guys got to be kidding me, sound like old yankee fans

well said

[Manhattan Project]

One thing interesting about Santana is that he was not a starter in his earlier career, so its not like his arm is a almost 30 year old arm. Plus he has a devastating change up, that will always be there. At this point Im willing to do this deal...

[mets87]

we have 3 first round draft picks this year. we can refill the farm system.

3.33 ERA, WHIP barely over 1, 235 K's, 219 IP. what a terrible year. definitely not worth more than a couple no-name prospects imo.

[bringinhinkie]

we have 3 first round draft picks this year. we can refill the farm system.

3.33 ERA, WHIP barely over 1, 235 K's, 219 IP. what a terrible year. definitely not worth more than a couple no-name prospects imo.

its not the nba, the three picks can and more than often dont pan out.. these are FIVE prospects who have made names for themselves, not just 5 "draft picks" as you see it.. and no one said santana had a bad year, its just precautionary to trade for a star after a down year for them.. he had the most homeruns in baseball(or at least the al) i believe and didnt have a vintage santana season, although it was still a great year.. again, you guys obviously just want to do any deal b/c the offseason has been quiet which is beyond foolish.. you dont trade almost and maybe ALL your best prospects in one offseason and get back 1 pitcher who you then must sign to an enormous deal.. i cant believe met fans have stooped this low, yankee fans have at least learned their lesson

[Luv those Knicks]

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its not the nba, the three picks can and more than often dont pan out.. these are FIVE prospects who have made names for themselves, not just 5 "draft picks" as you see it.. and no one said santana had a bad year, its just precautionary to trade for a star after a down year for them.. he had the most homeruns in baseball(or at least the al) i believe and didnt have a vintage santana season, although it was still a great year.. again, you guys obviously just want to do any deal b/c the offseason has been quiet which is beyond foolish.. you dont trade almost and maybe ALL your best prospects in one offseason and get back 1 pitcher who you then must sign to an enormous deal.. i cant believe met fans have stooped this low, yankee fans have at least learned their lesson

First, I agree with you, I said 5 prospects is too much.

and I agree that the baseball draft is much more hit & miss than basketball. Sometimes guys taken in round 60? - does it go to round 60 - turn out to be stud players. Piazza comes to mind.

So, first round picks in baseball isn't much.


so I agree with what you said.


Still, at some point, I would make this Santana deal, 3 pitching prospects, 1 OF prospect - OK. I'd do that.

Cause you can usually fill in a team with players like Castillo who may be our 2nd baseman for the next 2-3 years and an OF isn't a hard guy to add to a team. So, a depleated farm system for a guy who may be our ace for the next 6 years and who may be the best pitcher in baseball, at some point, I'd say yes to that deal.

Though I think the 5 prospects suggested is too much.

[gooGD]

5 with Fmart is WAY too much in this scenario, especially since we are giving up such HIGH ceiling talent guys in Gomez are Guerra.

If they also want Fmart in that package, I'm going to have to say NO at this point, because we would be mortgaging our WHOLE farm for the next 5 years if we give up all 5. We would basically not see anything substantial come up if we give up 5.

I would be willing to do 5 (kunz? smith?) without Fmart/Pelfrey in the outlined deal, but if this is the case, Fmart would be way off the table.

If they want Fmart so bad, sub in Fmart for Gomez. We need to keep atleast 1 of our guys here.

[Lord Commander]

5 with Fmart is WAY too much in this scenario, especially since we are giving up such HIGH ceiling talent guys in Gomez are Guerra.

If they also want Fmart in that package, I'm going to have to say NO at this point, because we would be mortgaging our WHOLE farm for the next 5 years if we give up all 5. We would basically not see anything substantial come up if we give up 5.

I would be willing to do 5 (kunz? smith?) without Fmart/Pelfrey in the outlined deal, but if this is the case, Fmart would be way off the table.

If they want Fmart so bad, sub in Fmart for Gomez. We need to keep atleast 1 of our guys here.

Well then you're not getting the best pitcher in baseball. We're not talking about Zito here, we're talking about the opportunity to get arguably THE BEST pitcher in all of baseball. If that's what it's going to take to keep him out of the Bronx - so be it. I love F-Mart's skills but you have to give something to get something. Think about it - if the Skanks wind up getting Santana, they would have to give up the best pitching prospect in baseball, Hughes, who is much more valuable than a top 5 OF prospect. If we have to compete with that offer, we're going to have to overwhelm them with numbers...

[mets87]

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its not the nba, the three picks can and more than often dont pan out.. these are FIVE prospects who have made names for themselves, not just 5 "draft picks" as you see it.

great. they've done well in the minors. what proof is there that they'll ever make an impact at the major league level? prospects are just that: prospects.

again, you guys obviously just want to do any deal b/c the offseason has been quiet which is beyond foolish.. you dont trade almost and maybe ALL your best prospects in one offseason and get back 1 pitcher who you then must sign to an enormous deal..

incorrect. i want to do this deal because it's for the best pitcher in baseball, not because we haven't done anything. and who cares about an enormous deal? money should be no problem for this team. no, i'm not advocating a 200 million dollar payroll. but with the ridiculous income this team has, it's stupid to worry about how much money you're paying the best pitcher in baseball.

[bringinhinkie]

-= original quote snipped =-




Well then you're not getting the best pitcher in baseball. We're not talking about Zito here, we're talking about the opportunity to get arguably THE BEST pitcher in all of baseball. If that's what it's going to take to keep him out of the Bronx - so be it. I love F-Mart's skills but you have to give something to get something. Think about it - if the Skanks wind up getting Santana, they would have to give up the best pitching prospect in baseball, Hughes, who is much more valuable than a top 5 OF prospect. If we have to compete with that offer, we're going to have to overwhelm them with numbers...

hughes was exposed this year.. he aint the best pitching prospect in baseball, not even the best on their own team

[mets87]

he was exposed? you mean by having a no hitter ended because of an injury?