do these trades?

ItsaVC3 · Post #1 » by **ItsaVC3** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:58 pm

nyy-minn
nyy get johan
minn gets cano ian and damon and/or melky
then
nyy-phil
nyy get chase
phil gets melky horne sanchez marquez whelan
then sign andrew jones or Aaron roward
Lu
1chase 2b
2jeter ss
3abreu rf
4a-who 3b
5jones or roward cf
6posada c
7matsui lf or dh
8giambi dh or 1b
9shelly 1b
rotation
1johan
2wang
3joba
4hughes
5moose or igawa or carl

what u think?

JohnnyK · Post #2 » by **JohnnyK** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:04 pm

Even if the Yankees do these trades (and I am not even gonna think about that) what in the world makes you think Minny or Philly do them?

I am not convinced that Pat Gillick is sitting in his office pondering how he can best giftwrap Chase Utley for the Yankees... :roll:

KnickTerp12 · Post #3 » by **KnickTerp12** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:10 pm

I would not give up Cano, Melky, and Kennedy for Santana. What a stupid trade.

KnickTerp12 · Post #4 » by **KnickTerp12** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:11 pm

Dammit why did I even read this. Utley? Come on man.

Post #5 » by **HCYanks** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:50 pm

KnickTerp12 wrote:I would not give up Cano, Melky, and Kennedy for Santana. What a stupid trade.

Sarcasm? I mean, yeah, it would mean the only good young positional talent in the organization is a couple years away from the majors, but come on.

The Utley trade is just funny. Not ha-ha funny. Funny in the "did you see a great player and decide to slap together a bunch of names from the farm system and hope the deal works?" sort of way.

VinnyTheMick · Post #6 » by **VinnyTheMick** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:56 pm

Close this thread.

bringinhinkie · Post #7 » by **bringinhinkie** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:54 am

them crazy philly fans would burn down the city if they traded utley, specially for that package.

bringinhinkie · Post #8 » by **bringinhinkie** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:03 am

KnickTerp12 wrote:I would not give up Cano, Melky, and Kennedy for Santana. What a stupid trade.

Johan Santana. Not some guy whos a 1 or 2 or a stud in the NL but bum in AL. Not just some "innings eater" or old dude on the decline, etcetc.

The BEST pitcher in baseball. Cano is good, hes not great(like great aka not trading for anyone). Huge season 2 years ago, slow start last season, hot second half. OK defender. Good athlete. Melky is a decent hitter, good arm, decent defender. Kennedy is what he is, a prospect. Johan Santana.. you guys would have the best position player and pitcher in all of baseball along with the best closer. Idc how loyal you are to your guys, ud HAVE to do that trade.

Post #9 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:09 am

You got it, we cannot move that package for Santana. We'd be moving our only two positional players who are under 30 years old, and they are good players to boot. Cano is a star who is knocking on the door of superstar. He is going to be a .300 hitter with 25-30 home runs and 40-50 doubles while being one of the best defensive 2B in baseball. He isn't an OK defender as you stated, he is an excellent fielder.

Melky is certainly expendable, I cannot deny that. He doesn't have a whole lot of power and isn't very fast, but he is just one of those role players that every team should have and it isn't as easy to give him up as some would think. I have high hopes for guys like Brett Gardner and Austin Jackson, that is the only reason I'd move Melky.

Kennedy is a good prospect, and an underrated one at that. I truly believe his ceiling is an ok #2 or a very good #3. He has been underrated since draft day when he slipped to the Yankees #21 overall.

Basically, when you break it down, you can make arguments to trade each guy (only one I'd argue is Cano, he will be the #3 hitter for the next decade once Abreu is gone IMO). However, when you put them all together in one package, it's a no go. I forgot who I was listening on the radio, maybe it was John Heyman...but he specifically stated that the Yankees have told the Twins they shouldn't even waste their time asking for Cano in any deal.

KnickTerp12 · Post #10 » by **KnickTerp12** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:05 pm

The best 13-12 pitcher in baseball!

Post #11 » by **HCYanks** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:29 pm

KnickTerp12 wrote::roll: The best 13-12 pitcher in baseball!

Yet another example of how bloody stupid W/L records are as a pitching metric.

Post #12 » by **Chach** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:46 pm

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/20 ... adin_1.php

Please read that article before posting silly trades. Then you'll realize that dog feces with a bat does not equal Chase Utley. mahalo
~Chach~

Post #13 » by **moocow007** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:08 pm

HCYanks wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yet another example of how bloody stupid W/L records are as a pitching metric.

True but I remember reading an article where his "production" has declined in each of the past 3 or 4 seasons. I wish I remember the specifics or the article but I don't know that Santana is a guaranteed sure thing even if he gives the Yankees a window to give him a 5 year $125-150 million extension (which appears to be what he's after).

Post #14 » by **moocow007** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:11 pm

Dan Haren IMHO would be a better alternative both in terms of likely costing less from a trade standpoint as well as not being in any position to really be looking at a ARod sized per anum contract (Haren's signed for 3 more years at around $5-6 million per).

Post #15 » by **HCYanks** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:42 pm

moocow007 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

True but I remember reading an article where his "production" has declined in each of the past 3 or 4 seasons. I wish I remember the specifics or the article but I don't know that Santana is a guaranteed sure thing even if he gives the Yankees a window to give him a 5 year $125-150 million extension (which appears to be what he's after).

His K/BB ratio has dropped some over the past couple seasons and his opponents' numbers have gone up (.564 OPS against in 2004 up to .678 this year). It's a concern, but on the other hand he's still pitching outstanding overall and seems like he's in good shape health-wise. I think he's still the best pitcher in the league until someone else (Sabathia?) starts to match his production on a yearly basis. Throw in the fact that he's still only 28 and i'd have no problem gambling big money on him being the best or one of the best hurlers in the league for another 5 years. If nothing else it's more sensible than locking ARod up until he's in his 40s.

I'm not buying that Haren would cost a lot less than Santana.

1)He's locked up for a few more years, as you said, so the A's don't have the immediate pressure to get something done that the Twins do.
2)Because he's cheaper, a lot more teams would probably bid for Haren as opposed to the five or so teams that could actually afford Johan.

I think Beane would push for Hughes or Joba as a centerpiece, just like the Twins would.

Post #16 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:32 am

Here is how Santana's peripherals have trended in recent years.

H/9:
2004 - 6.16; 2005 - 6.99; 2006 - 7.16; 2007 - 7.52

HR/9:
2005 - 0.85; 2006 - 0.92; 2007 - 1.36

BB/9:
2005 - 1.75; 2006 - 1.81; 2007 - 2.14

WHIP:
2004 - 0.92; 2005 - 0.97; 2006 - 1.00; 2007 - 1.07

BAA:
2004 - .192; 2005 - .210; 2006 - .216; 2007 - .225

OBP:
2004 - .249; 2005 - .248; 2006 - .257; 2007 - .272

SLG:
2004 - .315; 2005 - .346; 2006 - .360; 2007 - .405

OPS:
2004 - .564; 2005 - .594; 2006 - .616; 2007 - .678

The only thing that hasn't gotten worse is his K/9 rate. Nobody is denying the fact that his numbers are still amazing, but you also cannot deny the fact that they are getting worse.

He has thrown 931 innings in the last 4 years (including postseason) after throwing 458.2 innings the previous 4 years (including postseason and minor leagues). That is an incredible difference, and the fact that he has shown that trending decline from ages 25-28 worries me about what decline he will show from ages 29-32 (as he ages and has hundreds of more innings on his arm) and even beyond. I'm not giving up Hughes or Joba for him.