official trade deadline thread

[Pharmcat]

i have a simple question for cash supporters

why wasnt mitchell/warren/phelps/noesi/etc given the 2 spot starts instead of journeyman gordon?

this way they get to get a taste of the big league and know what they have to improve on once they go back

cash has become over protected of prospects: he wont trade them, nor use them to help this team...seems like he wants to make a point ever since people said he just bought the 09 WS ring

[rappa]

The Indians started off hot, 31-10, and whats their record now? Right.......

They beat us with a rotation of Sabathia and a filthy Carmona.

Sorry if your worried about the tribe, you need to realize they had a weak schedule in the beginning and were playing over their heads. Adding Jimenez is a good move for them but other then him, are you worried about facing Justin Masterson or Carlos Carrasco? If so, please come to reality.

As for you crying about playing or trading them, it's probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The prospects will get their shot when they are ready. The reason Brian Gordon was given 2 spot starts is because 1) Phelps was hurt, 2) Warren wasn't pitching well and 3) Mitchell isn't ready.

I love how you refer to my pitching, as if you even know me, but let me set you straight. You don't know anything about baseball and it's because of people like you that give us actual baseball fans a bad rep.

You will see some of the prospects come up in due time...Banuelos just got promoted to AAA, Montero is getting called up before end of this month, Romine and Betances will also be called to AAA. It's a process that takes time and unfortunatley due to people like you (steinbrenner), prospects are mishandled in NY. I'm not a cashman fan or hater but there is no SP out there that is going to make us significantly better in October. The rangers won last year with Lee, Wilson and Lewis.

I'll take a Sabathia / Colon / Hughes/ Burnett combo as it compares just as favorably to that tandem. Add in if Soriano is healthy, we now have a 6 inning game on our hands.

I'm not sure how Cashman has become overprotective of prospects. Everyone in the game now adays overvalues prospects as they are cost controlled and the game has changed drastically in the past few years to where 40yr olds are useless. If the yankees traded Montero, Betances or Banuelos yesyterday, they would of been the best prospects traded by a long shot. The phillies gave up guys in A ball and other then that, no other prpsoecpt traded was even remotely as advanced or talented as those 3. But hey lets just trade them because it's taking too long for them to be ready to help the ig league club so lets get a middle reliever. This kind of thinking is why we didn't win a world series for over 5 years.

PS - Detfink, you're like a 50 year old dude who has no idea about baseball, just stop posting, i've shown you to be wrong countless times yet you still post as if you have a clue. Figure it out one time that you don't know jack.

[Pharmcat]

1)cashman mishandled the prospects
joba rules still needed tj surgery
phil hughes: SP to RP to SP, and his velocity is gone

2) ok so those SP were injured or struggling, so there is no one else in the "deep" farm system to make 2 spot starts instead of going and getting a stiff from outside the club? if thats the case, then the farm isnt as hot as cashman makes it out to be

3) colon/hughes/burnett will not get you to the WS, hughes and burnett will get teed off by TEX or BOS, and colons hammy in cold weather is just waiting to get ruptured when he has to field a bunt. Plus other teams have gotten better since last year, see BOS/PHI, so that SP is way too weak to contend for the WS

4)this decade this team has failed to develop even one legit SP, that falls on Cashman (hows brackman doing? another bust)

[Wade2k6]

Some of you guys have no patience at all. Cashman knows a hell of a lot more then you guys about their development and whether they're ready. Just because they don't want to include some of these players in a trade for an overrated "ace" doesn't mean they're ready for the major leagues.

If your talking about Montero, then yes, I agree he should be given a shot (and he will be up within a week or so). But Banuelos? Betances? There command isn't where it should be right now, they still need some work. Why rush them to the majors just to "give them a taste"?

[Pharmcat]

Some of you guys have no patience at all. Cashman knows a hell of a lot more then you guys about their development and whether they're ready. Just because they don't want to include some of these players in a trade for an overrated "ace" doesn't mean they're ready for the major leagues.

If your talking about Montero, then yes, I agree he should be given a shot (and he will be up within a week or so). But Banuelos? Betances? There command isn't where it should be right now, they still need some work. Why rush them to the majors just to "give them a taste"?

i wasnt talking about banelos/betances......there are plenty of back end starters in the farm that shouldve been given the spot starts instead of gordon, whose not even in the country anymore

as for montero, he shouldve been here when posada threw his may temper, and should be taking all of posadas ABs....the DH production yanks get is very weak

and its not about patience, its about getting that #2 to fill your rotation.....roy, lee, haren, etc etc cash has missed the boat on

[Wade2k6]

He didn't miss on Halladay or Lee. They had a deal in place with the Mariners for Lee but they screwed NY over and went with an inferior package. How can you blame Cashman for that? Then the following off-season they did all they could to sign him, and unless you think Cash should've offered him more money and/or years then I don't think there should be any complaints about that either.

The Bluejays were asking for a ridiculous amount for Halladay, the trade wasn't worth it at the time. Joba, Hughes, and Montero? They traded him to Philly for a lesser package then they asked NY for (Drabeck, Taylor), and that's understandable because Toronto is in the same division as NY.

There have been plenty of trades that have backfired and helped us. People seem to forget Cashman refusing to trade for Santana because of the ridiculous amount Minnesota was asking for (Hughes/Joba and Cano), or getting rid of Austin Jackson when his value was at an all-time high (while getting Granderson in return). The one trade I would've liked him to do was the Haren deal, but I can see why he was cautious because of the injury problems he had.

And Pharmcat, my response was mostly directed towards Detfink who said:
"GET IT THROUGH YOUR BRAIN...WE SAID EITHER TRADE OR PLAY THESE ALLEGED TOP PROSPECTS. "
and
"WE SAID EITHER TRADE OR PLAY THESE ALLEGED TOP PROSPECTS. Not 162 games, just give them a taste...."

That is some of the worst logic I've ever heard in my life. That's why I said some people on this forum have no patience whatsoever.

[Pharmcat]

if i recall, SEA wanted nunez since the other guys ankle was not looking good...imo thats a deal you still make as this team was in win now mode

[rappa]

if i recall, SEA wanted nunez since the other guys ankle was not looking good...imo thats a deal you still make as this team was in win now mode

I was in the front office when this went down....yanks and mariners agreed on montero + adams for lee. then jack z came back after agreeing and said, adams ankle is questionable so we want nunez or nova as well.

Cashman did the right thing and said no because 1, if he had agreed to give up more, this tactic would have been used against us countless times and 2, montero was the best prospect he was going to get and giving away 2 prospects that were both very young and mlb ready in addition to a top 5 hitter thats in AAA as a 20 year old? If lee wasn't a free agent to be, the deal would have been made, but since he wasn't allowing contract extensions, it was too big a gamble.

Where would we be without Nunez and Nova this year? How easily you forget how valuable they've been to us so far this year when people have gotten hurt (arod + jeter). How EASILY we forget there 23 years old.

But hey lets just call up the prospects because we aren't trading them and let them fail and ruin their careers. LOVE THIS LOGIC!

[Pharmcat]

if i recall, SEA wanted nunez since the other guys ankle was not looking good...imo thats a deal you still make as this team was in win now mode

I was in the front office when this went down....yanks and mariners agreed on montero + adams for lee. then jack z came back after agreeing and said, adams ankle is questionable so we want nunez or nova as well.

Cashman did the right thing and said no because 1, if he had agreed to give up more, this tactic would have been used against us countless times and 2, montero was the best prospect he was going to get and giving away 2 prospects that were both very young and mlb ready in addition to a top 5 hitter thats in AAA as a 20 year old? If lee wasn't a free agent to be, the deal would have been made, but since he wasn't allowing contract extensions, it was too big a gamble.

Where would we be without Nunez and Nova this year? How easily you forget how valuable they've been to us so far this year when people have gotten hurt (arod + jeter). How EASILY we forget there 23 years old.

But hey lets just call up the prospects because we aren't trading them and let them fail and ruin their careers. LOVE THIS LOGIC!

your first statements that its one or the other, the rest of the post makes it seems like its both , a bit confusing

[rappa]

You're right I apologize. It was one or the other + Adams + Montero. I was just trying to show that if we gave one of them up how much of an effect it would of had on this years team.

Adams himself is a legit prospect, he was batting .320/.400/.490 when he went down and that was in AA. The biggest thing was the Mariners reneging on the trade once word leaked out it was a done deal, as other offers came in and they wanted the Yanks to up theirs due to "questionable" medicals. If cashman went for that move, every team would have used the Yankees as leverage again and again and again.

The point is if Lee wasn't a FA, the deal would have been made. We can play the what-if's and say he could of loved it here, etc, etc but point is Mariners used the Yankees as leverage and Cashman was not having any of it.

[j4remi]

1)cashman mishandled the prospects
joba rules still needed tj surgery
phil hughes: SP to RP to SP, and his velocity is gone

2) ok so those SP were injured or struggling, so there is no one else in the "deep" farm system to make 2 spot starts instead of going and getting a stiff from outside the club? if thats the case, then the farm isnt as hot as cashman makes it out to be

3) colon/hughes/burnett will not get you to the WS, hughes and burnett will get teed off by TEX or BOS, and colons hammy in cold weather is just waiting to get ruptured when he has to field a bunt. Plus other teams have gotten better since last year, see BOS/PHI, so that SP is way too weak to contend for the WS

4)this decade this team has failed to develop even one legit SP, that falls on Cashman (hows brackman doing? another bust)

Great post. I think where the divide is, is that some people are thinking about patience and the future...whereas others see a legitimate chance for the Yanks to make a big run if they can just find a partner for C.C. who has been absolutely dominant. I'm with that second school of though, especially because of number 4 listed. Cashman has mishandled his pitchers in the past, he's had highly tauted prospects go down the drain because he held on to them and watched them fizzle, and there are situations like Cano where he probably wouldn't have been called up if not for certain circumstances. I don't like how Cash has handled our youth over the years, so I see no problem in people questioning his use of the prospects (especially the case with number 2 in Pharmcat's post).

[Pharmcat]

You're right I apologize. It was one or the other + Adams + Montero. I was just trying to show that if we gave one of them up how much of an effect it would of had on this years team.

Adams himself is a legit prospect, he was batting .320/.400/.490 when he went down and that was in AA. The biggest thing was the Mariners reneging on the trade once word leaked out it was a done deal, as other offers came in and they wanted the Yanks to up theirs due to "questionable" medicals. If cashman went for that move, every team would have used the Yankees as leverage again and again and again.

The point is if Lee wasn't a FA, the deal would have been made. We can play the what-if's and say he could of loved it here, etc, etc but point is Mariners used the Yankees as leverage and Cashman was not having any of it.

teams have ALWAYS used NY for leverage
teams ALWAYS ask for the moon from NY (just see this ubaldo thing)

not getting lee cuz of nunez cost this team a pennant

[Wade2k6]

The deal might of cost the team a pennant, but it could of also cost them one of the best hitting prospects this organization has had in years. That might of been fine with you, but without Lee signed to an extension then it isn't fine with me. Lee doesn't guarantee NY a world series, which means they could of lost Montero for a half season rental. That doesn't fly with me.

[Pharmcat]

The deal might of cost the team a pennant, but it could of also cost them one of the best hitting prospects this organization has had in years. That might of been fine with you, but without Lee signed to an extension then it isn't fine with me. Lee doesn't guarantee NY a world series, which means they could of lost Montero for a half season rental. That doesn't fly with me.

see but you are only making our original point here

im fine with NOT doing t he trade as long as the prospects then get to play for the team....which is not happening, and thats my complaint....montero should be up here getting most of posadas at bats and splitting BUC duty (this shouldve happened in may when jorge had his fit, and its easily justifiable since how weak the dh output of NYY is)

[Wade2k6]

I agreed with you guys about Montero being promoted earlier in the season, but you guys are ignoring a few things: One, the Yankees know a hell of a lot more about their players development than fans. Two, the Yankees are promoting some of there best prospects within the next week or 2 (Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Romine).

[Pharmcat]

btw heyman says yanks wouldve offered betances manny nova and montero for felix

imo if Im sea, id make that trade as it would give them a great SP rotation for the future potential wise and one that could help them win in that division

[moocow007]

Well assuming that both Carlos Zambrano and Rafael Soriano will be put on and make it through waivers, anyone willing to swap the 2 bums if the Cubs threw in something?

[Pharmcat]

Well assuming that both Carlos Zambrano and Rafael Soriano will be put on and make it through waivers, anyone willing to swap the 2 bums if the Cubs threw in something?

im not even sure, soriano has shown he can pitch in the AL east

i would say no, and fill that sp spot in the OS