Annoying logic from the 'Joba should stay a reliever' crowd

[34Celtic]

NY Times link

Good luck to Yankees opponents this fall, once the game gets to Chamberlain, setting up for the still-formidable Mariano Rivera. And good grief to the plan to terminate this tandem of contrasting personalities by inserting Chamberlain into the starting rotation next season rather than have him continue in his current role and groom him as the closer for when Rivera retires.

That

[34Celtic]

He's a potential ace as a starter, and a potential lights out closer along the lines of Mariano. I'll keep him as a reliever for next year but only because we go Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Moose, Kennedy, etc (FA signings) deep in our rotation....hell if we can put together a formidable rotation you seriously have to consider leaving Joba out there

[HCYanks]

But it's a waste to use him as a closer if he could be a #1 or even a #2 starter. Plenty of top starters would look great if they came out of the bullpen on a regular basis, but it'd be absolutely pointless to do that.

I'm also not a fan of keeping him stuck in the bullpen for any extended period because we're trying to develop him carefully, with inning increases each year. Joba has to get starter's innings for most of the year to keep on the right track. Besides, Pettitte isn't guaranteed to be in the cards and who knows what we'll get out of Moose next year.

[cmaff051]

There is definitely a chance that he won't be a #1 or #2 starter. I can see the logic of keeping him as a reliever. He's already shown he can dominate in that role.

[HCYanks]

It's possible that he won't be one. And if that's the case, by all means, move him back to the bullpen. But there's no sense in not giving him a chance to start when the potential is there for him to be a great starter.

[cmaff051]

It's possible that he won't be one. And if that's the case, by all means, move him back to the bullpen. But there's no sense in not giving him a chance to start when the potential is there for him to be a great starter.

Fair enough, but to poo-poo the suggestion is stupid, IMO. Let him start next year, but if he is only average you move him to the bullpen.

[nykgeneralmanager]

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Fair enough, but to poo-poo the suggestion is stupid, IMO. Let him start next year, but if he is only average you move him to the bullpen.

So now we give potential stars only a year to reach their star status? If Joba's ERA is anything close to 4.5 or lower, he will have earned another year as a starter. It will take an ERA of 6 over 180 innings to convince me otherwise. The guy's future is as a starter, a closer can be had. Joe Borowski has almost twice the amount of saves than Mo for the team with the best record in baseball.

How likely is it that Joba is anything more than "average" in his first major league season as a starter, and just his 2nd season as a professional baseball player?

[cmaff051]

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So now we give potential stars only a year to reach their star status? If Joba's ERA is anything close to 4.5 or lower, he will have earned another year as a starter. It will take an ERA of 6 over 180 innings to convince me otherwise. The guy's future is as a starter, a closer can be had. Joe Borowski has almost twice the amount of saves than Mo for the team with the best record in baseball.

How likely is it that Joba is anything more than "average" in his first major league season as a starter, and just his 2nd season as a professional baseball player?

Well, I think Joba will only pitch 140-150 innings next year. I expect him to be average, his ERA around 4.00-4.25. There isn't much value in that.

Of course I'd give him more than a year to prove that he is a good starter but if he isn't a top of the rotation pitcher I move him to the bullpen when Mo retires.

[HCYanks]

I just think it's stupid to consider putting him in the bullpen permanently as anything more than a backup plan. Remember, the only reason he's there in the first place is this was a way for him to contribute to the big league team while keeping his innings workload limited. He's still a starter first and foremost.

[Bleeding Green]

How many pitches does he have? Maybe he's in the Papelbon mold where if they stretched him out he wouldn't be as effective as you'd think as a starter. Looking at Papelbon's stuff as a reliever you'd think, "Hey, this guy would be awesome in the rotation--a surefire #1," but he's not.

[cmaff051]

How many pitches does he have? Maybe he's in the Papelbon mold where if they stretched him out he wouldn't be as effective as you'd think as a starter. Looking at Papelbon's stuff as a reliever you'd think, "Hey, this guy would be awesome in the rotation--a surefire #1," but he's not.

He's got two good pitches - his fastball and his slider. His curve is pretty unknown at this point, but he did get Pedroia and Drew looking with that pitch. I'd consider it an average pitch and it could get better with time. His changeup is a decent pitch, nothing special though.

[nykgeneralmanager]

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Well, I think Joba will only pitch 140-150 innings next year. I expect him to be average, his ERA around 4.00-4.25. There isn't much value in that.

Of course I'd give him more than a year to prove that he is a good starter but if he isn't a top of the rotation pitcher I move him to the bullpen when Mo retires.

If a pitcher puts up an ERA of 4 in his rookie season for the Yankees in the AL east, that would eliminate any consideration of moving him to the pen. Now if he is doing the same thing in 2011, we can talk. But Joba will need to put up a 6 ERA next year as a starter for me to even discuss this topic. And based on his track record in the minors, I'm willing to bet he won't be putting up an ERA of anything close to 6 next season.

Hughes has an ERA of nearly 5 this year and has merely been ''average'' (although his injury screwed him up) and nobody (well, some fools are) is second guessing his potential to be an ace. Pitchers take years to develop, not months. To give up one season, maybe 2 to prove his worth as a future ace is downright foolish and unfair to him. If he has a 4 ERA next season and a 4.2 ERA the year after, you'd move him? Doesn't make much sense to me.

[cmaff051]

I'd give Mo a 2 year contract after this year. After 2009, if Chamberlain isn't anything special as a starter I'd move him to the bullpen and make him our closer.

[TKF]

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If a pitcher puts up an ERA of 4 in his rookie season for the Yankees in the AL east, that would eliminate any consideration of moving him to the pen. Now if he is doing the same thing in 2011, we can talk. But Joba will need to put up a 6 ERA next year as a starter for me to even discuss this topic. And based on his track record in the minors, I'm willing to bet he won't be putting up an ERA of anything close to 6 next season.

Hughes has an ERA of nearly 5 this year and has merely been ''average'' (although his injury screwed him up) and nobody (well, some fools are) is second guessing his potential to be an ace. Pitchers take years to develop, not months. To give up one season, maybe 2 to prove his worth as a future ace is downright foolish and unfair to him. If he has a 4 ERA next season and a 4.2 ERA the year after, you'd move him? Doesn't make much sense to me.

yea, guys like peavy, cc sebathia, ben sheets, took a few years, Sebathia is having his best year and how long has he been in the league?