John Maine

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-



Have you seen the command and poise Hughes and Clippard have shown in their starts? I don't know, I just think if the Mets had Karstens or Rasner instead of Maine nobody would really see a difference. Both of them have proven that when given the chance they have the ability to equal John Maine.

Pitching in the National League is a lot easier. I'm not saying the talent isn't there. But when you have a DH there are a lot less holes to pitch around. In the NL you can work around a lineup and go after the pitchers spot a few times a game.

I think that Maine > Rasner & Karstens, but your general point stands. Is there a single lineup as good as the Mets in the NL (other than the Mets, of course)?

I have said this many times... if the mets had a quality 1-5 and not a patchwork rotation, they would be National League World Series favorites this year by a wide wide margin.

The Mets are the class of that league regardless though.

[Lord Commander]

-= original quote snipped =-



Have you seen the command and poise Hughes and Clippard have shown in their starts? I don't know, I just think if the Mets had Karstens or Rasner instead of Maine nobody would really see a difference. Both of them have proven that when given the chance they have the ability to equal John Maine.

Pitching in the National League is a lot easier. I'm not saying the talent isn't there. But when you have a DH there are a lot less holes to pitch around. In the NL you can work around a lineup and go after the pitchers spot a few times a game.

I need to see more...I'm not a Yankee fan so I guess I don't have to drink the Kool-Aid..

[34Celtic]

-= original quote snipped =-



I think that Maine > Rasner & Karstens, but your general point stands. Is there a single lineup as good as the Mets in the NL (other than the Mets, of course)?

I have said this many times... if the mets had a quality 1-5 and not a patchwork rotation, they would be National League World Series favorites this year by a wide wide margin.

The Mets are the class of that league regardless though.

Exactly, the only team in the NL that compares to the Mets is Atlanta. They aren't as good because their lineup isn't as good. All this being said, if the Mets were in the AL, I don't know if they compete with Boston for the EAST division, and I don't know if they compete with the Central teams. Its not knocking them, I mean look at us, we cant compete either.

[nykgeneralmanager]

Nobody in their right mind would even CONSIDER taking Maine over Hughes. Not right now, and not in the future. Hughes is going to be an ace very quickly. As for Clippard, he is going to be better than Maine but has some time to get there. He won't be as good as Hughes, and he won't reach his potential as quickly. Both are going to have better careers than Maine IMO.

[Lord Commander]

Nobody in their right mind would even CONSIDER taking Maine over Hughes. Not right now, and not in the future. Hughes is going to be an ace very quickly. As for Clippard, he is going to be better than Maine but has some time to get there. He won't be as good as Hughes, and he won't reach his potential as quickly. Both are going to have better careers than Maine IMO.

You're probably right - who knows. Hughes and Clippard should prove themselves more before they are anointed "aces." Also, Maine has yet to reach his potential - he's still only 25 so it's not like he's maxed-out. I was just trying to calm down that rhetoric that Maine is "garbage" when the fact is that he's probably a better option than 3/5ths of the Yankee rotation. After Pettitte and Hughes, who are you that sure about? Maine is a young, promising, innings eating prospect with huge potential that we stole from Baltimore.l

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-



You're probably right - who knows. Hughes and Clippard should prove themselves more before they are anointed "aces." Also, Maine has yet to reach his potential - he's still only 25 so it's not like he's maxed-out. I was just trying to calm down that rhetoric that Maine is "garbage" when the fact is that he's probably a better option than 3/5ths of the Yankee rotation. After Pettitte and Hughes, who are you that sure about? Maine is a young, promising, innings eating prospect with huge potential that we stole from Baltimore.l

Innings eating prospect? Last year he averaged 6 innings per start. That's decent, but nothing exceptional.

And I really don't think he's a better option than 3/5ths of our starting rotation..

Is he better than Mussina? No. Mussina had a 3.51 ERA last year, can Maine do that in the AL East. No.
Is he better than Pettitte? No way.
Is he better than Clemens? HAHA.
Is he better than Hughes? Hughes will be better in the long run
Is he better than Wang?

[Jose7]

Mainebo will step it up next start.

[34Celtic]

And I really don't think he's a better option than 3/5ths of our starting rotation..

Is he better than Mussina? No. Mussina had a 3.51 ERA last year, can Maine do that in the AL East. No.
Is he better than Pettitte? No way.
Is he better than Clemens? HAHA.
Is he better than Hughes? Hughes will be better in the long run
Is he better than Wang?

In case you have forgotten Wang was second in the AL Cy Young Voting last year. So until Maine wins 19 games, hes not better than any of our starters.

[Lord Commander]

-= original quote snipped =-



Innings eating prospect? Last year he averaged 6 innings per start. That's decent, but nothing exceptional.

And I really don't think he's a better option than 3/5ths of our starting rotation..

Is he better than Mussina? No. Mussina had a 3.51 ERA last year, can Maine do that in the AL East. No.
Is he better than Pettitte? No way.
Is he better than Clemens? HAHA.
Is he better than Hughes? Hughes will be better in the long run
Is he better than Wang?

This is all conjecture. We'll see.

I predict:

-Pettitte will get hurt, as he has in recent history, and spend time on the DL
-Mussina has regressed and is more like his 5.00 ERA would suggest
-Clemens will implode and show his 45 years of age
-Hughes will open eyes and pitch well. Not quite Cy Young as you would argue and not enough to pitch the Yanks to the post season
-Wang, barring injury, is probably your only sure bet
-The other rookies, i.e., Clippard, will make or break your season

[cmaff051]

-Pettitte will get hurt, as he has in recent history, and spend time on the DL

Pettitte has been one of the most durable arms of the last 10 years. It's crazy to say that he will get hurt "as he has in recent history". You know what he got injured by in 2004? A HBP when he was batting. He sure is injury prone.

-Mussina has regressed and is more like his 5.00 ERA would suggest

Why don't you give him 100 innings before saying that?

-Clemens will implode and show his 45 years of age

After 44 years of age he was still worlds better than John Maine in the NL.

[Lord Commander]

-= original quote snipped =-



After 44 years of age he was still worlds better than John Maine in the NL.

I hope you're right because the minute he gets rocked I'll be in here looking for you...

[34Celtic]

Pettitte will get hurt, as he has in recent history, and spend time on the DL

Pettitte is the only pitcher to win 12 or more games in the first 9 years of his career. In 9 of the last 11 seasons he has thrown over 190 innings. He will probably win his 200th game this year (He has 12 left to get there) and his career ERA is 3.79, so talk to me about John Maine in about 10 years, he may be close to Pettitte, though I doubt it.

-Mussina has regressed and is more like his 5.00 ERA would suggest

Mussina has won 12 games or more in 14 of the last 15 seasons. His ERA last year was 3.51. He has been injured this season and let him get healthy before you write him off

-Clemens will implode and show his 45 years of age

2.98
1.87
2.30
Those numbers are Rober Clemens ERA the last three years. Oh now hes in the AL. Well John Maine's career ERA in the NL is 3.60, 2.77. He also averages just over 6 IP a start this year.

-Hughes will open eyes and pitch well. Not quite Cy Young as you would argue and not enough to pitch the Yanks to the post season

None of us ever said Hughes would be Cy Young, but he will definitly help us get to the postseason.

-Wang, barring injury, is probably your only sure bet

Not our only sure bet, but probably our best.

-The other rookies, i.e., Clippard, will make or break your season

Once everyone gets healthy, Scranton will by far and away be the best AAA team this side of the Mississippi

[ReggieFULLeffect]

This is all conjecture. We'll see.

I predict:

-Pettitte will get hurt, as he has in recent history, and spend time on the DL
-Mussina has regressed and is more like his 5.00 ERA would suggest
-Clemens will implode and show his 45 years of age
-Hughes will open eyes and pitch well. Not quite Cy Young as you would argue and not enough to pitch the Yanks to the post season

These predictions are so unbelievably biased. As a Mets fan, most of your predictions regarding Yankees will foresee a negative outcome.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



This is all conjecture. We'll see.

I predict:

-Pettitte will get hurt, as he has in recent history, and spend time on the DL
-Mussina has regressed and is more like his 5.00 ERA would suggest
-Clemens will implode and show his 45 years of age
-Hughes will open eyes and pitch well. Not quite Cy Young as you would argue and not enough to pitch the Yanks to the post season
-Wang, barring injury, is probably your only sure bet
-The other rookies, i.e., Clippard, will make or break your season

Come on man, be serious. Maine has nothing on Pettitte, Clemens, Wang, and probably not Hughes (but it will take more than 2 starts to see that). Moose has only pitched 2 or 3 times since missing a month on the DL without any rehab starts, so he really isn't anything like his 5.00 ERA. Maine wouldn't be in the Yankees rotation once Clemens and Hughes are back.

EDIT: Predicting injuries is kind of foolish, especially considering that the guy has one of the healthiest track records of any MLB pitcher.

Also, how can you call Maine an innings eater? In his ML career, he hasn't even thrown over 90 innings in a season yet. And if you back to his minor league career, he hasn't even thrown much of 150 innings in a year. That is far from an innings eater.

[34Celtic]

Its ok Met fans, at least you have something to show for the Chris/anna Benson soap opera....alls well that ends well

[Lord Commander]

-= original quote snipped =-


Come on man, be serious. Maine has nothing on Pettitte, Clemens, Wang, and probably not Hughes (but it will take more than 2 starts to see that). Moose has only pitched 2 or 3 times since missing a month on the DL without any rehab starts, so he really isn't anything like his 5.00 ERA. Maine wouldn't be in the Yankees rotation once Clemens and Hughes are back.

Age has a funny way of catching up with everyone. It's unreasonable to think that Pettitte, Clemens and Mussina will continue to dominate at their ages and in Mussina's case, after injuries. Sooner or later you reach a point of diminishing returns. It's not ridiculous to think that Maine outperforms those guys this year.

[Lord Commander]

Its ok Met fans, at least you have something to show for the Chris/anna Benson soap opera....alls well that ends well

Damn right, although I do miss Anna

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



Age has a funny way of catching up with everyone. It's unreasonable to think that Pettitte, Clemens and Mussina will continue to dominate at their ages and in Mussina's case, after injuries. Sooner or later you reach a point of diminishing returns. It's not ridiculous to think that Maine outperforms those guys this year.

They don't have to be dominant, just better than Maine. And while age does catch up to guys, it hasn't happened yet. You're just hoping it will.

[nykgeneralmanager]

Maine's peripherals just aren't that good to convince anyone that he can sustain this low of an ERA. First of all, he is largely a flyball pitchers. While it helps being in a pitcher's park, it is more likely that his ERA will rise as a flyball pitcher, especially as it gets warmer out and balls really begin to fly out of ballparks. His WHIP is currently 1.337, I'd have to do some research, but you'd be hard pressed to find a number of guys with that high of a WHIP and this low of an ERA after a full season. He doesn't strike out a great amount of batters, and obviously he walks a lot. With those peripherals, his ERA will probably finish a little lower than 4.

[Lord Commander]

This is all conjecture. We'll see.

I predict:

-Pettitte will get hurt, as he has in recent history, and spend time on the DL
-Mussina has regressed and is more like his 5.00 ERA would suggest
-Clemens will implode and show his 45 years of age
-Hughes will open eyes and pitch well. Not quite Cy Young as you would argue and not enough to pitch the Yanks to the post season

These predictions are so unbelievably biased. As a Mets fan, most of your predictions regarding Yankees will foresee a negative outcome.

How are my predictions as a Mets fan any more biased than the ones being made in this thread about Maine?