Official Minor League News Thread - 2007

[cmaff051]

Brett Gardner to AAA

[nykgeneralmanager]

Jackson homers
Tabata singles

Kennedy strikes out the side in the 1st inning

This has become an absolute dream season for our farm system

[34Celtic]

This has become an absolute dream season for our farm system

Its too bad it hasn't bee a dream season for our major leage team as well.

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-



Its too bad it hasn't bee a dream season for our major leage team as well.

That's what happens when you lock up players to long-term deals and they are no longer effective towards the end of the deals. Which is why we shouldn't extend Arod until he is 45.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



That's what happens when you lock up players to long-term deals and they are no longer effective towards the end of the deals. Which is why we shouldn't extend Arod until he is 45.

Players always have security blankets. If you want guys in their prime, you have to suck it up and have them towards the back end of their career. If a guy is a star at 29, you never see him sign a 3 year deal through him prime and become a free agent at 32. That is all sports, not just baseball. That is why Soriano got an 8 year deal (which will end at age 39), Ichiro got a 5 year extension, Pedro turned down Boston's 3 year deal for the Mets' 4 year offer, similarly to Damon, and the list goes on. There is no way around that. Unfortunately, we can't just pick and choose what ages we get to keep these players for. And IMO (as you already know), I think it is foolish to do so with an all-time great like ARod. You can't throw away 3-4 more MVP type seasons just because you're afraid he will drop off in the final 2 years of his contract.

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-


Players always have security blankets. If you want guys in their prime, you have to suck it up and have them towards the back end of their career. If a guy is a star at 29, you never see him sign a 3 year deal through him prime and become a free agent at 32. That is all sports, not just baseball. That is why Soriano got an 8 year deal (which will end at age 39), Ichiro got a 5 year extension, Pedro turned down Boston's 3 year deal for the Mets' 4 year offer, similarly to Damon, and the list goes on. There is no way around that. Unfortunately, we can't just pick and choose what ages we get to keep these players for. And IMO (as you already know), I think it is foolish to do so with an all-time great like ARod. You can't throw away 3-4 more MVP type seasons just because you're afraid he will drop off in the final 2 years of his contract.

I have doubts about Arod's production towards the end of his proposed contract, particularly years 7&8, but I have no doubts about what he will do during the meat of his contract. He will be a run producer, an elite one at that. But what I worry about is allocating $30 million to one player when it has been shown that even when he has a career year, he just isn't that much of an impact unless he has other players around him producing at a high level. Such is the fallacy of a position player, and it's why I do not feel why we should invest so much money in a position player, no matter how good he is. I would be willing to give Santana that kind of money because he could have a legit impact on this team and almost singlehandedly win us 20 games. He's one piece that could lead us to a championship. If you add a top of the rotation pitcher next year instead of Arod, that type of the rotation pitcher is going to have more impact. That's just the way it is.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



I have doubts about Arod's production towards the end of his proposed contract, particularly years 7&8, but I have no doubts about what he will do during the meat of his contract. He will be a run producer, an elite one at that. But what I worry about is allocating $30 million to one player when it has been shown that even when he has a career year, he just isn't that much of an impact unless he has other players around him producing at a high level. Such is the fallacy of a position player, and it's why I do not feel why we should invest so much money in a position player, no matter how good he is. I would be willing to give Santana that kind of money because he could have a legit impact on this team and almost singlehandedly win us 20 games. He's one piece that could lead us to a championship. If you add a top of the rotation pitcher next year instead of Arod, that type of the rotation pitcher is going to have more impact. That's just the way it is.

The debata between a pitcher and hitter is always a tough one. While Santana will single handedly win you 20 and keep you in another 5 or 6, whose to say that ARod hasn't already won us 20? And whose to say he won't win us another 9 or 10 while keeping us in another 15 throughout the season? I personally would take the ace over the hitter, but not when the hitter is as good as ARod. Like I've said, there aren't any other power threats in this lineup, and none coming from the farm system in the foreseeable future. We need ARod way too much right now, it's just a fact. I'd be willing to accept two years at the end of his contract if it means he can lead us to a couple of rings in the other 6 years of it.

You could argue that he doesn't win rings himself, which is true. But there is no arguing that without him, we would be 18 games behind Boston and 15 games behind Detroit. Baseball is a game where 25 things have to go right every night...9 guys have to hit, 9 guys have to field, anywhere from 1 to 5 guys have to pitch, the manager has to make the right decisions, etc. To say that ARod alone doesn't make an impact isn't fair, he can only take us as far as the guys around him. The same goes for a starting pitcher. Roger Clemens had a 1.9 ERA in Houston and won what, 11 games? That doesn't mean he wasn't good enough to make an impact on that team, it just means the team around him has to improve. With the right players around him, ARod could win/won 6 rings in his career, just like Jeter had the right guys around him all those years.

[nykgeneralmanager]

Lets not do this in the minor league thread

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-


The debata between a pitcher and hitter is always a tough one. While Santana will single handedly win you 20 and keep you in another 5 or 6, whose to say that ARod hasn't already won us 20? And whose to say he won't win us another 9 or 10 while keeping us in another 15 throughout the season? I personally would take the ace over the hitter, but not when the hitter is as good as ARod. Like I've said, there aren't any other power threats in this lineup, and none coming from the farm system in the foreseeable future. We need ARod way too much right now, it's just a fact. I'd be willing to accept two years at the end of his contract if it means he can lead us to a couple of rings in the other 6 years of it.

You could argue that he doesn't win rings himself, which is true. But there is no arguing that without him, we would be 18 games behind Boston and 15 games behind Detroit. Baseball is a game where 25 things have to go right every night...9 guys have to hit, 9 guys have to field, anywhere from 1 to 5 guys have to pitch, the manager has to make the right decisions, etc. To say that ARod alone doesn't make an impact isn't fair, he can only take us as far as the guys around him. The same goes for a starting pitcher. Roger Clemens had a 1.9 ERA in Houston and won what, 11 games? That doesn't mean he wasn't good enough to make an impact on that team, it just means the team around him has to improve. With the right players around him, ARod could win/won 6 rings in his career, just like Jeter had the right guys around him all those years.

With a better pitching staff, or a healthy pitching staff, we wouldn't be 15 games behind Detroit, so I disagree.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



With a better pitching staff, or a healthy pitching staff, we wouldn't be 15 games behind Detroit, so I disagree.

Well I'm talking about how valueable ARod has been to this team this season, so it has to include the injuries. Everything has to go right to have a winning team, and a player like ARod only helps a team win. But as you said, the pitchers still have to be healthy, the guys ahead him still have to get on base, the bullpen has to be effective, etc., but ARod can only make a team better.

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-


Well I'm talking about how valueable ARod has been to this team this season, so it has to include the injuries. Everything has to go right to have a winning team, and a player like ARod only helps a team win. But as you said, the pitchers still have to be healthy, the guys ahead him still have to get on base, the bullpen has to be effective, etc., but ARod can only make a team better.

But when you spend $30 mil on Arod and have no money left over to spend on any pitchers, then Arod cannot only make the team better. He can actually make the team worse. Which is the crux of my point: why spend $30 million on one player when the rest of our roster is so flawed.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



But when you spend $30 mil on Arod and have no money left over to spend on any pitchers, then Arod cannot only make the team better. He can actually make the team worse. Which is the crux of my point: why spend $30 million on one player when the rest of our roster is so flawed.

When has this ever been a problem for the Yankees? I know people usually hate the "Yankees can do anything" stories but they are practically true. Sure they have a limit, but ARod's $30 million won't bring them to that limit. Not when Clemens' $18 million, Giambi's $21 million, Pettitte's $17 million, Abreu's $17 million, Mussina's $11 million, Pavano's $11 million are ALL coming off the books between 2007 and 2008. I'm just pointing out that there are other ways to ''save money'' other than letting Alex Rodriguez walk from this ball club and getting nothing in return other than a draft pick.

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-


When has this ever been a problem for the Yankees? I know people usually hate the "Yankees can do anything" stories but they are practically true. Sure they have a limit, but ARod's $30 million won't bring them to that limit. Not when Clemens' $18 million, Giambi's $21 million, Pettitte's $17 million, Abreu's $17 million, Mussina's $11 million, Pavano's $11 million are ALL coming off the books between 2007 and 2008. I'm just pointing out that there are other ways to ''save money'' other than letting Alex Rodriguez walk from this ball club and getting nothing in return other than a draft pick.

Even the Yankees have a limit. If the Yankees give Arod a $30 million dollar a year contract, roughly $42 million is going to have to come out of their pockets due to the luxury tax. Apparently I am not the only one who has reservations about spending $42 mil on one player; it looks like the Yankees feel the same way. I don't see the Yankees getting under the luxury tax anytime soon, and I also don't see the Yankees spending $42 mil a year on the player, especially for the next decade and then some.

[nykgeneralmanager]

-= original quote snipped =-



Even the Yankees have a limit. If the Yankees give Arod a $30 million dollar a year contract, roughly $42 million is going to have to come out of their pockets due to the luxury tax. Apparently I am not the only one who has reservations about spending $42 mil on one player; it looks like the Yankees feel the same way. I don't see the Yankees getting under the luxury tax anytime soon, and I also don't see the Yankees spending $42 mil a year on the player, especially for the next decade and then some.

ARod's contract nearly pays for itself. The Yankees never reached 4 million fans until the 2004 season. It isn't about just adding payroll, it is about adding revenue.

He bring in lets say an extra 5,000 fans into YS on a nightly basis at an average ticket price of $40. That is already $16 million in ticket revenue. Now how about all of those people who will pay $12 parking, buy a few $6 beers and $3 hot dogs. And you know they're buying Alex Rodriguez jerseys and other memorabilia. And of course you know they will draw more fans on the road because of him. Also, I can't even begin to imagine how much money the Yankees will make as he hits his 500th, 550th, 600th, 650th and possibly more home runs. Trust me, as much as ARod could cost the Yankees, I'd be willing to bet they will STILL make a profit from him. The same goes for other teams who may sign him, which is why we need to lock him up now.

[cmaff051]

-= original quote snipped =-


ARod's contract nearly pays for itself. The Yankees never reached 4 million fans until the 2004 season. It isn't about just adding payroll, it is about adding revenue.

He bring in lets say an extra 5,000 fans into YS on a nightly basis at an average ticket price of $40. That is already $16 million in ticket revenue. Now how about all of those people who will pay $12 parking, buy a few $6 beers and $3 hot dogs. And you know they're buying Alex Rodriguez jerseys and other memorabilia. And of course you know they will draw more fans on the road because of him. Also, I can't even begin to imagine how much money the Yankees will make as he hits his 500th, 550th, 600th, 650th and possibly more home runs. Trust me, as much as ARod could cost the Yankees, I'd be willing to bet they will STILL make a profit from him. The same goes for other teams who may sign him, which is why we need to lock him up now.

I think it's a logical fallacy to assume that the reason the Yanks brought more people to Yankee Stadium in 2004 was because of Arod. As you can see from this list, attendance from year to year since 2000 has followed a steady increase. Our attendance figures did not jump any significantly than any other years when Arod was acquired in 2004.

2000: 3,055,435
2001: 3,264,907
2002: 3,465,807
2003: 3,465,600
2004: 3,775,292
2005: 4,090,696
2006: 4,248,067

I think Arod has had some impact on bringing new fans to Yankee Stadium, but it isn't as big as you say it is and I think the influx of new fans that have came to Yankee Stadium recently has more to do with the healthy state of baseball as compared to the late 1990s more than it has to do with Arod.

The Yankees will draw 4 million next year, with or without Arod. I think the Yankees make more money in the long run by putting out a balanced World Series caliber team than paying Arod $30 million and then neglecting every other part of this team.

[PR07]

Just because we are paying AROD 30 million doesn't mean we'll neglect the rest of the team. When we were paying Bernie 16 million in the last year of his deal (which he wasn't even close to being worth), and Pavano 10 million during the same season did we neglect the rest of the whole team? That was a lot of stupid money we had tied up, and we still won the divison. The difference is with AROD, he'd be worth most of it.

[cmaff051]

Just because we are paying AROD 30 million doesn't mean we'll neglect the rest of the team. When we were paying Bernie 16 million in the last year of his deal (which he wasn't even close to being worth), and Pavano 10 million during the same season did we neglect the rest of the whole team? That was a lot of stupid money we had tied up, and we still won the divison. The difference is with AROD, he'd be worth most of it.

This is the same team that passed up on Beltran due to payroll limitations. Contrary to popular belief, the Yankees do have a limit on what they spend, as hard as this is to believe.

[PR07]

We passed on Beltran for the same reason we passed on Vlad...Steinbrenner didn't like the player enough to dish over the big bucks. How much of Arod's salary are we paying now? An extra 12 million or so shouldn't be that big of a deal for us. If we're willing to pay Clemens 26 million for half a season (who's not even the staff ace), money isn't that big of a issue...we do have a limit but we still have quite a bit of ceiling left until we get there.

For those of you who are balking at signing ARod to 30 million+ a year, you must have hated the Clemens signing. AROD is the best in the game, Clemens isn't even the best pitcher on the team.

[cmaff051]

We passed on Beltran for the same reason we passed on Vlad...Steinbrenner didn't like the player enough to dish over the big bucks. How much of Arod's salary are we paying now? An extra 12 million or so shouldn't be that big of a deal for us. If we're willing to pay Clemens 26 million for half a season (who's not even the staff ace), money isn't that big of a issue...we do have a limit but we still have quite a bit of ceiling left until we get there.

No, that's not true at all. Cashman didn't want Beltran. George did. Cashman didn't want the payroll to escalate up to insane depths.

So we do have a limit.

[PR07]

How can you say we are pushing our limit when we just paid Clemens essentially 26 million for half a season? A guy who is not even the best starter on this team nor an ace. That makes absolutely no sense.