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ccvle wrote:True or False? Sturtze sucks with or without torre?
True or False Villone always sucks in the second half?

Villone usually sucks in the second half but he went through an ungodly workload in August. I think he pitched 22 innings that month. That is inexcusable.

yeah ok, torre turned villone from a 6.00ERA pitcher in the second half to a 8.00era pitcher. So what.

managing a bullpen is overrated. You pitch what you have. And what other choices did Torre have beside over using his bullpen ?The division race has been so tight in recent years with the red sox chasing our asses and the bluejays getting stronger each year, tampa is no longer a team we can just roll over. A wild card seed is also hard to get with the teams in the al central in the mix.

ccvle wrote:managing a bullpen is overrated. You pitch what you have. And what other choices did Torre have beside over using his bullpen ?The division race has been so tight in recent years with the red sox chasing our asses and the bluejays getting stronger each year, tampa is no longer a team we can just roll over. A wild card seed is also hard to get with the teams in the al central in the mix.

Stop defending Torre like he's your lapdog. He pitched 22 innings that month, many in blowouts. His workload that month was criminal.

ccvle wrote:managing a bullpen is overrated. You pitch what you have. And what other choices did Torre have beside over using his bullpen ?The division race has been so tight in recent years with the red sox chasing our asses and the bluejays getting stronger each year, tampa is no longer a team we can just roll over. A wild card seed is also hard to get with the teams in the al central in the mix.

Stop defending Torre like he's your lapdog. He pitched 22 innings that month, many in blowouts. His workload that month was criminal.

where is NYKGM to put the shovel on Torre already

P.S. I love Philip Hughes but I'd most like to throw up before I see him handled by Joe Torre and the soft clicker atleast Girardi would manage w/ his cojones not sleeping on the job like Torre is, think this the last damn win we have came off the bat of Alex Rodriguez. It has got to the point he needs to be Big Papi for us to make the playoffs because somehow someway Torre is giving games away like it''s christmas

cmaff051 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Stop defending Torre like he's your lapdog. He pitched 22 innings that month, many in blowouts. His workload that month was criminal.

many blowouts? Nope. We didn't blow people out everday or get blowed.

out of the 17games that villone pitched in august, 15games were less than 3pts when villone came in.

ccvle wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



many blowouts? Nope. We didn't blow people out everday or get blowed.

out of the 16 games that villone pitched in august, the points difference in 13-14 games were less than 3pts.

what ?

he was pitching in 8 - 1 games in 7 - 2 games , if they had a 6 R lead call Villone, if it was a 2 R lead call Villone, if it was a tie game runners on corners call Villone that was last year. Did you forget last season ?

ccvle wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



many blowouts? Nope. We didn't blow people out everday or get blowed.

out of the 16 games that villone pitched in august, the points difference in 13-14 games were less than 3pts.

Try 12 out of 17. Not to mention pitching 2.0 innings of a blowout RIGHT before our 5 game series.

I can't believe that I am arguing about Villone and his usage in August. He was downright abused that month. How many relievers in the last 10 years have pitch 22+ innings in a month? Not many. Villone was unfortunately in a very select group. Joe showed carelessness with him that month, and his career is in jeopardy because of it.

cmaff051 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Try 12 out of 17. Not to mention pitching 2.0 innings of a blowout RIGHT before our 5 game series.

I can't believe that I am arguing about Villone and his usage in August. He was downright abused that month. How many relievers in the last 10 years have pitch 22+ innings in a month? Not many. Villone was unfortunately in a very select group. Joe showed carelessness with him that month, and his career is in jeopardy because of it.

exactly I don't even know why we have to argue this , Villone was completely abused that month , more so after the AS break. Heck the Yankees still have to send Ron's wife an I'm sorry card.

from what I have seen, this kid has good stuff. Live fastball and a nasty curve.....

TKF wrote:from what I have seen, this kid has good stuff. Live fastball and a nasty curve.....

TKF you know under Torre he'll never see the 7th inning this season, I was impressed I think Hughes's hype is for real but dammit when will the Yankee brass understand Torre is not the guy for him and take the kid gloves off before he starts believing he's Moose and not pass the 5 - 7th IP role.

NYKnSTILL! wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



TKF you know under Torre he'll never see the 7th inning this season, I was impressed I think Hughes's hype is for real but dammit when will the Yankee brass understand Torre is not the guy for him and take the kid gloves off before he starts believing he's Moose and not pass the 5 - 7th IP role.

NYKStill, he's on a pitch count and an innings limit because it's the best thing for him. That order came from above, not from Torre.

He pitched 152 innings last year. Ideally, we would want him to pitch about 190 innings this entire year, which would include the minor leagues + major leagues + major league postseason innings he accumulates. Right now he's at 20 innings. He'll probably make about 25 starts from now until the rest of the year. You do the math.

You just can't let him loose and ask him to go 7 innings every 5th day... he'll turn into the next Mark Prior.

Putting him on an innings limit is a really good move by the organization. It's the best thing for him and his future.

Next year we'll let him loose... not this year though. His arm is too valuable.

cmaff051 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Try 12 out of 17. Not to mention pitching 2.0 innings of a blowout RIGHT before our 5 game series.

I can't believe that I am arguing about Villone and his usage in August. He was downright abused that month. How many relievers in the last 10 years have pitch 22+ innings in a month? Not many. Villone was unfortunately in a very select group. Joe showed carelessness with him that month, and his career is in jeopardy because of it.

i Counted 14,but I will give you 12. And how many of those 12 games could we have afforded to give up?

Scores when villone came in.

8/1/2006 4-1
8/2/2006 x
8/4/2006 4-4
8/5/2006 0-3
8/8/2006 4-4
8/9/2006 x
8/11/2006 4-6
8/13/2006 x
8/15/2006 1-3
8/16/2006 1-3
8/17/2006 2-4
8/18/2006 7-4
8/20/2006 3-3
8/22/2006 5-5
8/25/2006 2-3
8/26/2006 7-9
8/30/2006 3-2

NYKnSTILL! wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



TKF you know under Torre he'll never see the 7th inning this season, I was impressed I think Hughes's hype is for real but dammit when will the Yankee brass understand Torre is not the guy for him and take the kid gloves off before he starts believing he's Moose and not pass the 5 - 7th IP role.

Yea, torre is not good at managing pitchers, this is why i wanted the yanks to get leo Mazzoni this past season. Anyway watching burnett, he has great stuff but the problem with him is that he doesn't always have command of his breaking ball and when he does, you get what you get tonight and when he doesn't, he gets hit. I think hughes lived up to the hype, he can throw that curve and has great command of that and his fastball, I think that kid can be special... We are down now, but a win tomorrow and taking the series vs boston can change the atmosphere around here quick...

ccvle wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



i Counted 13,but I will give you 12. And how many of those 12 games could we have afforded to give up?

Why did Villone have to pitch in all 17 of those games? Why couldn't anybody else? Why couldn't somebody pitch his 5 blowout games? Why not Myers? Why did Villone pitch in the 9th innings of blowouts occasionally?

what 5 blowout games? even when we were losing by more than 3pints, villone helped the team to stay in the game. In those games we ended coming back within 2-3pts.

I dont even think villone ever even pitched in a blowout game(point differene of +5pts) in last august.