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The Yankees are now dealing out of Fear..
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 3:18 pm
by TKF
In my life time, I have found that when you deal from a position of fear, you always lose.
The yanks did it with Posada, and gave into an extra year, and now they are doing it with johan. Including Hughes in this deal, in which santana has a no trade clause, and will be a free agent soon, is just stupid. The yanks have to be confident in what they have, not in what the red sox can get. If the sox want to pony up and get santana, then good, we will play them on the field, not on paper!!!
The twins after seeing the yankees cave in and include hughes, went right back to the sox and asked for clay buckholz and the sox told them to go kick rocks in so many words. Wow the sox are now dealing like the yankees of the 90's used to deal. From a position of power! We are dealing from a position of fear....
The indians had two aces who both had a better year than santana this year, and they lost to the red sox.... again, you play the game on the field. I would go to fight with Hughes, joba, kennedy and wang, and let the chips fall where they may. I enjoyed all the championships we won over the last 10 years, and I want to see another run just like that, but it requires patience, and not cashing in all of your future chips.. I mean why get a young coach is girardi and then make a when now move with santana, hell they just should have kept torre. I thought they were looking to the future and building another dynasty. when santana is 33 and on the decline with all those innings on that shoulder, hughes will be 25 and dominating the AL most likely..
I hope they don't make this trade...
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:43 pm
by nykgeneralmanager
I feel betrayed by the front office
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 4:55 pm
by LamboNYK
I agree 100%. I know Johan is the best, but this is a desperation move. Johan is not gonna be as much the best the next 3 years, and after that he will decline and just be another overpaid vet.
The real question is: Does he put us over the top for a WS in the next few years??? I dont see it...a WS would be more likely if we develop the 1-2 punch of hughes and joba.
By the time Joba and Hughes are ready to REALLY dominate, Johan will be like 33 and will be declining, so the point is Johan and Joba will not be peaking at the same time and thats what we need to win, thats what Hughes and Joba offer, Johan and Joba do not.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 5:20 pm
by Jitpal
nykgeneralmanager wrote:I feel betrayed by the front office
Don't. Everything I have read suggests Cashman is against dealing Hughes. This move is a Steinbrenner special. -Jitpal
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 5:58 pm
by horaceworthy
All this talk is eerily reminiscent of Celtic fans crowing about how they'd be so moronic to deal Al Jefferson for KG, and wouldn't touch a deal like that with a twenty foot pole.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:00 pm
by Fury
The Twins like the Red Sox offer better if we don't include Hughes. I don't want to include Hughes but it's not a bad trade. We keep Jackson and Tabata and get Santana.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:05 pm
by Pugsley_2491
why did they turn their back on hughes like that? i mean they made it THIS far without trading him for like anybody and NOW they decide to do it right when he's fully ready to pitch a full season and contribute to the team. it really doesn't make much sense to me.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:10 pm
by nykgeneralmanager
Pugsley_2491 wrote:why did they turn their back on hughes like that? i mean they made it THIS far without trading him for like anybody and NOW they decide to do it right when he's fully ready to pitch a full season and contribute to the team. it really doesn't make much sense to me.
Well to be fair, the best pitcher in baseball was never available for trade until now.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:20 pm
by Pugsley_2491
nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Well to be fair, the best pitcher in baseball was never available for trade until now.
haha this is true but still i don't like it because we held on to him sooo long and right when he can contribute we deal him but o well nothings official yet, a lot of crazy things can happen and still when you think about it. at the end of the day if we win a WS in the next 1-2 years, will this trade reallyyy have mattered, people will just say that we made a great move and quite frankly i'm warming up to the idea of this trade i mean our rotation will still be santana, wang, chamberlain, kennedy, and either moose/petitte/horne after all. btw i think if this deal does happen it will push petitte more towards retirement.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:22 pm
by VinnyTheMick
Pugsley_2491 wrote:why did they turn their back on hughes like that? i mean they made it THIS far without trading him for like anybody and NOW they decide to do it right when he's fully ready to pitch a full season and contribute to the team. it really doesn't make much sense to me.
1-Santana was never within reach until now.
2-Joba exploded onto the scene.
3-Phil's 1st season wasn't what everyone expected.
I don't like the idea of dealing Phil but these are the reasons. I think Phil has shown that he is legit but the FO (at least, the contingent that would deal Phil) can't overlook his poor performances & his injuries.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:23 pm
by VinnyTheMick
Pugsley_2491 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
btw i think if this deal does happen it will push petitte more towards retirement.
Really? I think its the opposite. The trade will signify that the Yankees are in a "win now" mindset which would be appealing to Andy since he'd only be pitching for 1 more year.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:26 pm
by Pugsley_2491
VinnyTheMick wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Really? I think its the opposite. The trade will signify that the Yankees are in a "win now" mindset which would be appealing to Andy since he'd only be pitching for 1 more year.
no i think the only reasons why he considered going back were that they needed him and that he would have a big role with the young staff as he'd be the best/most experienced there. but now he see's that we won't really need him. idk we'll see what happens but those are my thoughts.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:27 pm
by TKF
VinnyTheMick wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
1-Santana was never within reach until now.
2-Joba exploded onto the scene.
3-Phil's 1st season wasn't what everyone expected.
I don't like the idea of dealing Phil but these are the reasons. I think Phil has shown that he is legit but the FO (at least, the contingent that would deal Phil) can't overlook his poor performances & his injuries.
did the FO notice how he shut down the indians hot lineup in the playoffs and got us the only win in the playoffs?
the kid was 20 years old for christ sakes.. This move just smells of panic. Boston by just entering the trade talks defeated the yankees. They have an ace already, an ace younger than johan and by all accounts just as good in their eyes... Now they will watch the yankees give up their best pitching prospect and one of the best in baseball to get a pitcher who: A) has a no trade clause B) will soon be a Free Agent and C) has peaked and will be close to 30 by the end of next year.... wow!!!
good going yanks...
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:32 pm
by VinnyTheMick
Pugsley_2491 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
no i think the only reasons why he considered going back were that they needed him and that he would have a big role with the young staff as he'd be the best/most experienced there. but now he see's that we won't really need him. idk we'll see what happens but those are my thoughts.
I don't see how acquiring Santana dimishes Andy's importance to the Yankees. I don't think Andy would come back because he wanted to "teach". & if thats the case, he still would teach. Santana isnt even 30 yet, Andy could mention all of them.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:33 pm
by Starksfor3
TKF wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
did the FO notice how he shut down the indians hot lineup in the playoffs and got us the only win in the playoffs?
the kid was 20 years old for christ sakes.. This move just smells of panic. Boston by just entering the trade talks defeated the yankees. They have an ace already, an ace younger than johan and by all accounts just as good in their eyes... Now they will watch the yankees give up their best pitching prospect and one of the best in baseball to get a pitcher who: A) has a no trade clause B) will soon be a Free Agent and C) has peaked and will be close to 30 by the end of next year.... wow!!!
good going yanks...
Let's wait until it's official. A lot of things can go wrong.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:55 pm
by a-rod
TKF wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
did the FO notice how he shut down the indians hot lineup in the playoffs and got us the only win in the playoffs?
the kid was 20 years old for christ sakes.. This move just smells of panic. Boston by just entering the trade talks defeated the yankees. They have an ace already, an ace younger than johan and by all accounts just as good in their eyes... Now they will watch the yankees give up their best pitching prospect and one of the best in baseball to get a pitcher who: A) has a no trade clause B) will soon be a Free Agent and C) has peaked and will be close to 30 by the end of next year.... wow!!!
good going yanks...
im not sure about this trade, but i know this Phil Hughes is never going to be as good as johan Santana.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 6:59 pm
by nykgeneralmanager
VinnyTheMick wrote:3-Phil's 1st season wasn't what everyone expected.
His 2007 season was supposed to take place in Scranton, at least until July/August. Injuries to 3 starters, and 2 replacements, pushed that up by 3 or 4 months. Anything Hughes did this season was a bonus, he was a 20 year old...the youngest pitcher in all of baseball pitching in a pennant race, and he was still our best pitcher in the month of September. Please tell me, what were YOUR expectations for him? Youngest pitcher in baseball, rushed to the majors ahead of schedule, two major injuries, and he STILL was able to pitch us into the playoffs with an ERA below 3 in September, and he STILL won our only game in the postseason.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 7:01 pm
by nykgeneralmanager
a-rod wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
im not sure about this trade, but i know this Phil Hughes is never going to be as good as johan Santana.
Hughes can be as good as Santana. Not as good as Santana WAS (2003-2006), but Santana will never be that good again either. Tell me why in 2-3 years, Hughes and Santana can't BOTH have a 3.40 ERA? Or why both can't be 18 game winners? The gap will be closing between these two quickly.
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:57 pm
by 34Celtic
horaceworthy wrote:All this talk is eerily reminiscent of Celtic fans crowing about how they'd be so moronic to deal Al Jefferson for KG, and wouldn't touch a deal like that with a twenty foot pole.
I was one of them, Santana is 3 years younger than KG now, he will make the Yankees THAT much better...
Posted: Sat Dec 1, 2007 8:59 pm
by 34Celtic
nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
His 2007 season was supposed to take place in Scranton, at least until July/August. Injuries to 3 starters, and 2 replacements, pushed that up by 3 or 4 months. Anything Hughes did this season was a bonus, he was a 20 year old...the youngest pitcher in all of baseball pitching in a pennant race, and he was still our best pitcher in the month of September. Please tell me, what were YOUR expectations for him? Youngest pitcher in baseball, rushed to the majors ahead of schedule, two major injuries, and he STILL was able to pitch us into the playoffs with an ERA below 3 in September, and he STILL won our only game in the postseason.