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according to Buster Olney...

Heard this: If all goes well in spring training for the Yankees, Joba Chamberlain is likely to start next season in the Yankees' bullpen, as part of the team's effort to limit his innings. Chamberlain will go to spring training and, at the outset, prepare to pitch out of the rotation, along with five other rotation candidates: Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte, Phil Hughes, Mike Mussina and Ian Kennedy. Assuming that none of the other five has a physical or performance breakdown, Chamberlain would then open 2008 in the bullpen, as a set-up man, for at least the start of the season -- under the Joba Rules.

The Yankees want to restrict the number of innings Chamberlain throws, and working him out of the bullpen for at least a couple of months will allow them to do that. Chamberlain may return to the rotation sometime in the middle of the season, depending on the Yankees' needs.

Face it, we're either throwing Joba out there or Latroy Hawkins. I know Joba has the potential to be a great starter but this essentiallly makes those close one run games over after 6 innings.

I disagree with this move because I am afraid that it will keep Joba in the pen for a long time. We don't need a guy with 3-4 plus plus pitches in the pen when he could be winning us 16-20 games a season potentially.

I think we have a lot of young arms in the minors that should at least be given the chance to show they can be effective in the pen.

Ross Ohlendorf
Kevin Whelan
Edwar Rameirez
Scott Patterson
Jonathan Albaladejo
Mark Melancon
Humberto Sanchez
David Robertson
Chris Britton
Brian Bruney
Jose Veras


Every one of these pitchers has either demonstrated significant success at the minor league level, or possesses remarkable "stuff". With a pool this deep to choose from, the smarter bet would be that at least two could contribute in some valuable manner in 2008, rather than that no legitimate major-league-caliber reliever will come from that crop this year. I don't recall any time in my years of Yankee fandom that there were so many high-upside power arms in the system.

Just grab a name off the top of the list - Ross Ohlendorff, c'mon down! Looking at his AAA statistics from 2007 wouldn't make him seem like a big-league relief prospect, but of course if you've seen him actually pitch in his late-season callup to the Bronx you couldn't be blamed for thinking otherwise - his mid-to-high 90s fastball with movement and good control sure looked major-league caliber to me.

But if Ohlendorf isn't up to the task, you move on to Kevin Whelan and his mid-90s fastball and impressive splitter and slider. Or Edwar Rameirez, with his outstanding changeup and otherworldly record of minor-league success. And so forth. Surely at least ONE of these talented pitchers will put things together in 2007, and given both the quantity and quality of the selection, I'd bet on more than one.

Robertson is a great example of just how stacked the Yankees' collection of pitchers is. Look at the numbers he put up last year as he blazed through Low-A Charleston, High-A Tampa, and AA-Trenton in his first professional season: 84 IP, 45 hits (no, that isn't a typo. Robertson gave up less than 5 H/9 IP while dominating three levels of minor league ball) and 113 K's (more than 12 per 9 innings). He has a mid-90s fastball and an explosive slider, just the kind of dominant "stuff" you want to see in your relief candidates.

And despite all of this, David Robertson arguably doesn't even crack a top-10 list of Yankees pitching prospects. I mean, forget about Jose Tabata and Austin Jackson! You can make a credible list of 10 Yankee pitching prospects without including David Robertson, even after his amazing 2007:

1) Joba Chamberlain
2) Alan Horne
3) Ian Kennedy
4) Mark Melancon
5) Humberto Sanchez
6) Kevin Whelan
7) Dellin Betances
George Kontos
9) Jeff Marquez
10) Dan McCutchen

Some people might argue to include Zach McAllister and Jairo Heredia on the list too, or even Andrew Brackman. Hey, did I forget JB Cox? You get the idea. This wealth of talent didn't wind up in the organization by accident and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised when someone (or several someones) emerges and boosts the Yankees pen.

i like the move. always been a fan of it. joba essentially gives us more wins pitching every other day for 2 innings then once a week for 6 innings.


but regardless this goes to show that the yankees are planning on watching teh Innings that joba pitches/ and prob the same thing with hughes, prob not so much with kennedy

This could end bad. I'm worried Mussina or somebody is going to go down with an injury early in the season and they're going to try to jump Joba from restricted relief pitching to starting instantly and get him hurt too. I'm all for being careful with him, but it's something the Yankees have to stick with on all fronts.

And they better be working him into the rotation by June. I'll say it again: if he stays in the pen for too long, he's never coming out.

Whats one more full season in the pen? Mussina will be gone after this year and you stick Joba in the rotation full time in 2009. We don't have a viable set up man in Vinny's list above, yeah trial and error may work but by the time we find someone it could be September. Our two choices to set up have to be either Joba or Kennedy, with Joba being the obvious choice.

34Celtic wrote:Whats one more full season in the pen? Mussina will be gone after this year and you stick Joba in the rotation full time in 2009. We don't have a viable set up man in Vinny's list above, yeah trial and error may work but by the time we find someone it could be September. Our two choices to set up have to be either Joba or Kennedy, with Joba being the obvious choice.

I think many of the listed will be in spring training, if they impress, they will be in the bullpen.

I don't mind the move for this year. We need bullpen help and we need to keep Joba's innings in check. I could see Joba being sent down and transitioned into being a starter for the stretch run around August or so when Melancon, Horne, Cox, Sanchez, Whelan and the like are ready to contribute on this level. -Jitpal

Jitpal wrote:I don't mind the move for this year. We need bullpen help and we need to keep Joba's innings in check. I could see Joba being sent down and transitioned into being a starter for the stretch run around August or so when Melancon, Horne, Cox, Sanchez, Whelan and the like are ready to contribute on this level. -Jitpal

that's probably what the yankees are thinking too. it's a smart move

It's just to limit his innings. He'll start before the season is over.

I don't think this is much of a surprise. Unless the Yankees planned on flat out sitting him for 2 months, this is the only other way to limit his innings to about 150 next season. It's not necessarily "Joba to the pen" its more like "Joba's innings to be limited" which everybody knew was going to be done.

I hope not, hes already been rushed to the majors, imagine if he have unsuccessful season at the pen, thats really going damage his psyche, and we all know pitching is all about psyche.


i say let the kid develop.

How is he being rushed to the majors when he dominated all 3 levels of the minors, only to dominate the big leagues? What else does he have to prove?

a-rod wrote:I hope not, hes already been rushed to the majors, imagine if he have unsuccessful season at the pen, thats really going damage his psyche, and we all know pitching is all about psyche.


i say let the kid develop.

Joba was going to be in the majors this season regardless whether or not he was a starter or a reliever, so what is your point?

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Joba was going to be in the majors this season regardless whether or not he was a starter or a reliever, so what is your point?

I didn't know that, but if that the case than I'm ok with him being a reliever.

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

[b]
so what is your point?

Study have showed that players whos has been rushed to major leagues
in any sport at young age are ineffective in the clutch .

This move makes sense, but I'd like to see him starting at some point during the 2008 season.

a-rod wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Study have showed that players whos has been rushed to major leagues
in any sport at young age are ineffective in the clutch .

What are these studies? You can't compare a young basketball player or hockey player to a young pitcher. Pitching is a different beast than anything else in all of sports, there are durability concerns, getting innings up, developing stuff, etc. Joba's stuff is developed and he dominated every level of the minors, to me that constitutes him as ML ready. And he isn't exactly 18 years old either, he went to junior college, college and a year in the minors/majors, so he has a decent amount of innings under his belt as well.

Considering that our best pitchers in the month of September were Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba, there goes your clutch argument. Miguel Cabrera and Josh Beckett were pretty good in the 2003 WS, and Andrew Jones was pretty filthy in the 1996 WS, so who says a young guy can't be clutch. Should we keep guys in the minors until they are 27 years old so that they are no longer considered young, therefore they may be clutch?

a-rod wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Study have showed that players whos has been rushed to major leagues
in any sport at young age are ineffective in the clutch .

There's no reason to keep him down in the minors if he can help the Yanks while continuing to work towards a full-time starter's workload. He did well in his first brief stint in the majors and his repertoire's obviously already there.

That said, he needs to be starting for the majority of 2008 if he wants to keep on the right developmental track. That's the only way he'll get enough innings.

a-rod wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Study have showed that players whos has been rushed to major leagues
in any sport at young age are ineffective in the clutch .

Like Francisco Rodriguez when he helped the Angels win the 2002 World Series? Or Miguel Cabrera when he helped the Marlin win the 2003 World Series? How about Livan Hernandez with the Marlins in '97? These guys were in their waaaay early 20s in high pressure situations. There's no clear cut definition for who's clutch and it's incredibly tough to prove something like that.

Who cares about his innings (I know the brass does), we are a better team with him in the bullpen right now...end of story.

34Celtic wrote:Who cares about his innings (I know the brass does), we are a better team with him in the bullpen right now...end of story.

Right now, sure maybe you're right. But we can't sacrafice 2008/2009 and make him a reliever and ruin his career as a starter. There is simply too much upside with him as a starter from the next 12 years to throw that all away for a year or two as a reliever. If this is for 2 months or so just to limit his innings then fine, but anything more is unacceptable.