RealGM

Joba Chamberlain is a big, tough, badass pitcher. Babying him and treating him like a little girl is not the right strategy because quite frankly, thats just not Joba. Don't rest him for 10 days, or only pitch him for 3 innings.. just let the man pitch like any ordinary pitcher, and he will perform well. Clearly his stats don't translate well when Girardi pulls this little experiment. In Joba's mind he most likely just to pitch, instead of being treated like a robot. THey can't control his body, if he gets hurt, he gets hurt it happens, Resting him and not testing him is not going to stop that.

Appleshampoo wrote:Joba Chamberlain is a big, tough, badass pitcher. Babying him and treating him like a little girl is not the right strategy because quite frankly, thats just not Joba. Don't rest him for 10 days, or only pitch him for 3 innings.. just let the man pitch like any ordinary pitcher, and he will perform well. Clearly his stats don't translate well when Girardi pulls this little experiment. In Joba's mind he most likely just to pitch, instead of being treated like a robot. THey can't control his body, if he gets hurt, he gets hurt it happens, Resting him and not testing him is not going to stop that.

Agreed, but Joba is not good enough to be in our rotation and would have to go to AAA to accomplish this (which should happen). Right now he is a 4.5 ERA ineffective pitcher, who with work, might be effective next year or the year after, if we keep him.

young pitchers take time to develop. I wonder what happened to that 98-99mph fast ball. I understand as a starter your mph comming out of the pen goes down, since you have to manage innings, but I wonder if it is mechanics which him. He will throw mostly in the 90-93 range, sometimes 94-95, but what happened to that high 90's stuff as an out pitch?

it sucks but they need to do this look at what happend to lirano when over pitched he wasn't looked the same since...next year he can go all out its worth it in the long run..

Appleshampoo wrote:Joba Chamberlain WAS a big, tough, badass pitcher

fixed

4.45 era 1.53 whip 27starts and only 139ip (~5ip/start).. and this isnt only because they were careful, the man was throwing 90pitches into the 4th-5th regularly

boy did they handle him well

joba=damaged goods

Guys he's like 23 and he barely had a minor league experience. This is how we save his arm and train him to become an Ace someday. Yes, we're babying him but that's better than him needing Tommy John Surgery in a year. Right now he's a number 4 starter, and I'd take him over a large majority of the 4's out there. He was effective for 8 straight starts out of the allstar break and then we wrecked his rhythm with the Joba rules but it's a necessary evil. Next year he'll be an effective starter at even the 3 hole (if Andy's not back) and we'll be having the same issues with Hughes (asking can he start for a full season and worrying about his effectiveness). It's growing pains, and I'd have it no other way. If Hughes and Joba reach their potential by the end of next year or the middle of the season after...we have 4 front line starters in our rotation.

what can you do, pitchers are babied to death now.

the rangers have a 18 year old in AA and their fans are excited ... why??

he won't be anything until he pitches 150 innings for they can work that up to 170 and then 190 until his arm can handle the load.

it's the way baseball is now, starters are babied and closers are considered a big deal when they're nothing but pitchers who failed at starting, which means they're all overrated.

blueNorange wrote:what can you do, pitchers are babied to death now.

the rangers have a 18 year old in AA and their fans are excited ... why??

he won't be anything until he pitches 150 innings for they can work that up to 170 and then 190 until his arm can handle the load.

it's the way baseball is now, starters are babied and closers are considered a big deal when they're nothing but pitchers who failed at starting, which means they're all overrated.

i was with you until here...thats not true at all

BelieveTheDream wrote:

blueNorange wrote:what can you do, pitchers are babied to death now.

the rangers have a 18 year old in AA and their fans are excited ... why??

he won't be anything until he pitches 150 innings for they can work that up to 170 and then 190 until his arm can handle the load.

it's the way baseball is now, starters are babied and closers are considered a big deal when they're nothing but pitchers who failed at starting, which means they're all overrated.

i was with you until here...thats not true at all

closers are the most overrated position in baseball.

OH NOES, 10+ MILL FOR 1 INNING!!!!11

back then starters would finish their games, if not then a relief pitcher who pitched 150 innings would finish it.

j4remi wrote:Guys he's like 23 and he barely had a minor league experience. This is how we save his arm and train him to become an Ace someday. Yes, we're babying him but that's better than him needing Tommy John Surgery in a year. Right now he's a number 4 starter, and I'd take him over a large majority of the 4's out there. He was effective for 8 straight starts out of the allstar break and then we wrecked his rhythm with the Joba rules but it's a necessary evil. Next year he'll be an effective starter at even the 3 hole (if Andy's not back) and we'll be having the same issues with Hughes (asking can he start for a full season and worrying about his effectiveness). It's growing pains, and I'd have it no other way. If Hughes and Joba reach their potential by the end of next year or the middle of the season after...we have 4 front line starters in our rotation.

Hughes will probably stay in the pen if Joba continues to start. I could even see Hughes moving to closer in the future. Joba is NOT a #4 starter, he's not even really in our rotation. If Wang is healthy (not this year, obviously), I take Wang and Gaudin over Joba any day of the week. Joba is 1-2 yrs away from being effective, and he wants to play. Don't be surprised if the Yanks deal him for an experienced starting pitcher.

Agreed, I guess thats just the way it now. Its frustrating though.. i mean he was 8-2 and now he's around 8-5 or 8-6. I think he could've went maybe 12-4, 11-5, Solid and completely acceptable from a number 4 pitcher in the rotation. Clemons went 24-4 when he was 23 haha but i dont think Joba is that good.. not that good yet hopefully

rickbrunson wrote:

j4remi wrote:Guys he's like 23 and he barely had a minor league experience. This is how we save his arm and train him to become an Ace someday. Yes, we're babying him but that's better than him needing Tommy John Surgery in a year. Right now he's a number 4 starter, and I'd take him over a large majority of the 4's out there. He was effective for 8 straight starts out of the allstar break and then we wrecked his rhythm with the Joba rules but it's a necessary evil. Next year he'll be an effective starter at even the 3 hole (if Andy's not back) and we'll be having the same issues with Hughes (asking can he start for a full season and worrying about his effectiveness). It's growing pains, and I'd have it no other way. If Hughes and Joba reach their potential by the end of next year or the middle of the season after...we have 4 front line starters in our rotation.

Hughes will probably stay in the pen if Joba continues to start. I could even see Hughes moving to closer in the future. Joba is NOT a #4 starter, he's not even really in our rotation. If Wang is healthy (not this year, obviously), I take Wang and Gaudin over Joba any day of the week. Joba is 1-2 yrs away from being effective, and he wants to play. Don't be surprised if the Yanks deal him for an experienced starting pitcher.

This is standard NY "What have you done for me lately" fair. Gaudin was another team's trash and you'd start him over Joba!? Take a look at what Joba did before we wrecked his rhythm after the allstar break. Take a look at every start after the ASB and before we made him sit on long rest and than gave him a surprise start next. The Yankees AREN'T dealing Joba and Hughes will be a starter. Hughes is better suited to start than Joba imho even if he's behind right now. Hughes isn't the future closer, I'm hoping Melancon becomes that.

Appleshampoo wrote:Agreed, I guess thats just the way it now. Its frustrating though.. i mean he was 8-2 and now he's around 8-5 or 8-6. I think he could've went maybe 12-4, 11-5, Solid and completely acceptable from a number 4 pitcher in the rotation. Clemons went 24-4 when he was 23 haha but i dont think Joba is that good.. not that good yet hopefully

He could have gone 12-4 I think, maybe even better. He was rolling! But, his arm is too important, and you don't want a guy to throw his arm out when he's your future.

j4remi wrote:

Appleshampoo wrote:Agreed, I guess thats just the way it now. Its frustrating though.. i mean he was 8-2 and now he's around 8-5 or 8-6. I think he could've went maybe 12-4, 11-5, Solid and completely acceptable from a number 4 pitcher in the rotation. Clemons went 24-4 when he was 23 haha but i dont think Joba is that good.. not that good yet hopefully

He could have gone 12-4 I think, maybe even better. He was rolling! But, his arm is too important, and you don't want a guy to throw his arm out when he's your future.

I don't mind limiting his innings, the games we're playing now aren't that meaningful so it's better not to risk him getting overworked and or hurt. What do you guys think we should do in the playoffs, start Joba or put him in the pen?

Crazyknicks wrote:

j4remi wrote:

Appleshampoo wrote:Agreed, I guess thats just the way it now. Its frustrating though.. i mean he was 8-2 and now he's around 8-5 or 8-6. I think he could've went maybe 12-4, 11-5, Solid and completely acceptable from a number 4 pitcher in the rotation. Clemons went 24-4 when he was 23 haha but i dont think Joba is that good.. not that good yet hopefully

He could have gone 12-4 I think, maybe even better. He was rolling! But, his arm is too important, and you don't want a guy to throw his arm out when he's your future.

I don't mind limiting his innings, the games we're playing now aren't that meaningful so it's better not to risk him getting overworked and or hurt. What do you guys think we should do in the playoffs, start Joba or put him in the pen?

Start him in the 7 game series'. If anyone really says they'd start Gaudin or Mitre over Joba in a playoff situation, I'm revoking their fan pass.

If they go with a 3 man rotation we have CC-Pettite-Burnett.. which is all i can ask for and more for a playoff ROTation. THen unleash Joba in the pen again while we already have the pen out there.. Thats one hell of a pitching staff all the way through. And whoever says a closer isn't important, Tell Joe Torre that and he'll tell you a little story about a man named Mariano Rivera in the '96 '98 '99 and '00 playoffs, let alone the guys entire career.

If they go with a 3 man rotation we have CC-Pettite-Burnett.. which is all i can ask for and more for a playoff ROTation. THen unleash Joba in the pen again while we already have the pen out there.. Thats one hell of a pitching staff all the way through. And whoever says a closer isn't important, Tell Joe Torre that and he'll tell you a little story about a man named Mariano Rivera in the '96 '98 '99 and '00 playoffs, let alone the guys entire career.

TKF wrote:young pitchers take time to develop. I wonder what happened to that 98-99mph fast ball. I understand as a starter your mph comming out of the pen goes down, since you have to manage innings, but I wonder if it is mechanics which him. He will throw mostly in the 90-93 range, sometimes 94-95, but what happened to that high 90's stuff as an out pitch?

There's so much speculation regarding that. Obviously the reliever to starter thing but in the minors he was hitting 97-98 in the late innings on a regular basis. Some people also thought that he wasn't letting it loose based on the shoulder problem he had last year in Texas. Also let's not forget that he is in uncharted territory as far as his innings are concerned, he has pitched more innings this year than he has before. His velocity was up in the 94-96 range from around late June to early August.

Another thing that I had read, was that Joba didn't report to spring training in the same shape as he did last year. There were concerns draft time about Joba's conditioning, which is part of the reason he fell to the Yankees. The article I had read speculated that Joba's rise to stardom and instant dominance went to his head and he relaxed during the winter rather than working hard to be in shape for the start of training camp.

So from there you can surmise that poor conditioning led to lower stamina and poor mechanics. Teams obviously caught on to him throwing sliders off the plate more often than not, which has put him into bad counts. The lack of velocity forced him to pitch backwards and while he has a pretty good curveball, it isn't an AJ Burnett curveball. I wouldn't be too worried about it, as long as he gets his innings in and doesn't get hurt he has probably learned that he needs to be in better shape, which should help him repeat his delivery with proper mechanics. Remember after Verlander's stellar rookie year, he too had a sudden drop in velocity from the 97-99 range to the 91-93 range but this year it is back. Verlander matured and learned what he needed to do to beat major league hitters, I'm sure Joba will too. -Jitpal

rickbrunson wrote:

j4remi wrote:Guys he's like 23 and he barely had a minor league experience. This is how we save his arm and train him to become an Ace someday. Yes, we're babying him but that's better than him needing Tommy John Surgery in a year. Right now he's a number 4 starter, and I'd take him over a large majority of the 4's out there. He was effective for 8 straight starts out of the allstar break and then we wrecked his rhythm with the Joba rules but it's a necessary evil. Next year he'll be an effective starter at even the 3 hole (if Andy's not back) and we'll be having the same issues with Hughes (asking can he start for a full season and worrying about his effectiveness). It's growing pains, and I'd have it no other way. If Hughes and Joba reach their potential by the end of next year or the middle of the season after...we have 4 front line starters in our rotation.

Hughes will probably stay in the pen if Joba continues to start. I could even see Hughes moving to closer in the future. Joba is NOT a #4 starter, he's not even really in our rotation. If Wang is healthy (not this year, obviously), I take Wang and Gaudin over Joba any day of the week. Joba is 1-2 yrs away from being effective, and he wants to play. Don't be surprised if the Yanks deal him for an experienced starting pitcher.

What possible reason would there be to leave Hughes in the bullpen? The 8th inning isn't anything special. You have to make him a starter and until he proves he can't do it. He started 7 games, if you take out that nightmare game against Baltimore, he had a 3.55 ERA and a 1.28 WHIP. That's better than AJ Burnett this year and for his career. That's better than Andy Pettitte this year and for his career. Those numbers are on par with what Josh Beckett has done this year and for his career. Will Hughes be as good as any of those guys? Maybe, maybe not but you won't know until you give it a shot. Hughes has a shot to be an ace starter, there is no way the Yankees make the decision to have him pitch the 8th inning instead of the first 7. -Jitpal

rickbrunson wrote:

Appleshampoo wrote:Joba Chamberlain is a big, tough, badass pitcher. Babying him and treating him like a little girl is not the right strategy because quite frankly, thats just not Joba. Don't rest him for 10 days, or only pitch him for 3 innings.. just let the man pitch like any ordinary pitcher, and he will perform well. Clearly his stats don't translate well when Girardi pulls this little experiment. In Joba's mind he most likely just to pitch, instead of being treated like a robot. THey can't control his body, if he gets hurt, he gets hurt it happens, Resting him and not testing him is not going to stop that.

Agreed, but Joba is not good enough to be in our rotation and would have to go to AAA to accomplish this (which should happen). Right now he is a 4.5 ERA ineffective pitcher, who with work, might be effective next year or the year after, if we keep him.

4.5 is right around the average for an AL pitchers ERA this year, in the past its been 4.36 so to say hes an ineffective pitcher is false, especially as a 4-5 starter in the rotation.

The innings this is silly, I agree, and if they are going to put a cap on him, it shouldnt be innings, but pitches, innings just isnt logical. You do not send Joba back to AAA, you just dont, hes a good pitcher and if you are going to give him an innings cap, you should put him back in the pen where he was lightout last year, and pitch him 3-5 innings per week.