Fan interest officially dies

[TTown]

What a splendid way to celebrate the 2001 team.

Back-to-back shutouts coming out of the Break, neither of which coming from a pitcher who should really be throwing shutouts at all. Lewis, in particular, has been struggling for awhile now, but that was a pretty effortless 8.2 innings.

0, 0, 2, 3, 3, 1, 0, 4, 2, 3, 0, 6. Our offense production since July 1. That 6-run effort on the first of the month can be excused because it was against the Padres.

Last night's lineup was especially fun:

Our $20 mil leadoff hitter is hitting .264 with an OBP just over .300.

Our 2-hole hitter is hiting under .250, again with an OBP just over .300. He's cheap and we weren't expecting much from him, but the fact that he's our 2-hole hitter...

Our DH is hitting 6th, batting .207 with 3 HRs. He takes walks, which would be great if we were talking about one of our light-hitting infielders or our leadoff guy. But this is our theoretical power bat.

Our 7-9 hitters are hitting .187, .096, and .196. Literally, three ginormous black holes at the end of our lineup. If we don't score by the time Kennedy is up to bat (he hit 5th last night), we're simply not going to score. Unless the bases are loaded and Cust can draw a walk, of course.

[jumanji]

I thought all you guys were on vacation. Having seen the last week and a half of zero offense (thursday night live and in person) it is obviously time to semi-blow this thing up. I think you pointed out a few untouchables like Pineda, Ackley and Felix, after that let's make a big deal here. I think there are enough teams out there that would want a Bedard or a Vargas or a Fister and i'd also throw in the likes of Halman, Ichiro and Smoak if the right pieces came back. I know i'm all over the map here but it's frustrating. This is the worst offense i've ever seen.

[Sweezo]

I thought all you guys were on vacation. Having seen the last week and a half of zero offense (thursday night live and in person) it is obviously time to semi-blow this thing up. I think you pointed out a few untouchables like Pineda, Ackley and Felix, after that let's make a big deal here. I think there are enough teams out there that would want a Bedard or a Vargas or a Fister and i'd also throw in the likes of Halman, Ichiro and Smoak if the right pieces came back. I know i'm all over the map here but it's frustrating. This is the worst offense i've ever seen.

But much of what we have isn't really worth anything. Ichiro's 37 years old, doesn't get on base anymore, and is owed $18 million next year. What's that going to fetch you in a trade?

Same with Halman, Carp, Peguero, Saunders...a bunch of flawed AAAA outfielders. Halman's the only one who's done anything, but that's in a limited sample and every other team in the league can look at his history and see that he's probably not going to keep getting hits or be able to maintain his contact rate.

I don't think we can afford to trade guys like Vargas or Fister because they're cheap SP who are the lone bright spots on the team. I can't imagine Vargas or Fister would get an above average bat for the M's, and if you trade either of them you then have to replace them with what from AAA...Nate Robertson?

I'm frustrated. Which makes me far from unique, I imagine. As much as I like things Jack Z does, for two years he's given us the worst offense in baseball. I don't give a **** if he's stocking up the farm...this offense is unexcuseable.

[jumanji]

Can't disagree. The only two guys that probably will be on the move would be League and Bedard and with the Aardsma situation maybe not even League. I'm pretty high on Paxton and Hultzen being up there by mid season next year so i'd probably be more inclined to move the aforementioned Vargas and Fitser.

[TTown]

I'm torn over a lot of things. The PCL often pisses me off because it's such a hitter's league. Some of those parks are ridiculous. I've noticed a very disturbing trend of PCL alums (from a variety of major league clubs) underachieve drastically with the bat when they're called up, whereas the pitchers seem to do extraordinarily well. For the Mariners, look at every single outfielder we've got; they tore up Tacoma. Now they can't hit beans. Then look at Beavan: very mediocre statistically against PCL hitters. Looked like a fringe back-of-the-order guy at this level. Obviously his ML sample size is quite small, but early returns would indicate he's aced the projections. Look at fringe Major Leaguers like Luke French: hardly excelled here, but he wasn't awful. He's getting shelled in AAA.

Obviously there are great talents like Ackley that defy what level they're at, but I guess what I'm getting at with that diatribe above is that I don't even know what to do with some of our fringe prospects. Send Peguero down? Might be nice to get rid of him for awhile, but what's he going to do? He's going to mash PCL pitching again, he'll look like the next big thing, and he'll undoubtedly get called back up and annoy the hell out of us again. Hey, look at what Mike Carp's been up to since we sent him down: he again looks like the best hitter in AAA. Worth another call-up? Probably not.

I almost want to send Smoak down for a week so he can feel what it's like to a hit a home run again, even if it won't translate to any success when he comes back. But hitting 5 of them in 7 games down there, which he undoubtedly would in that league might be just what he needs, like a struggling shooter going to the foul line to rediscover his stroke.

/Tacoma rant

I wouldn't mind trading away Vargas or Fister. Not both. Depending on the offer, of course. But this season is done, if we can get something worthwhile from a contender who is desperate for starting pitching, I could live with Pauley starting the remainder of the year. If at this point next year we've got Felix, Pineda, Hultzen, Beavan, and one of Fister/Vargas, obviously we can live without one of them.

Taijuan Walker, last year's #1, is developing into a nice little prospect.

[TTown]

I'm actually going to keep on ranting, if that's okay.

But much of what we have isn't really worth anything.

That's really the frustrating part. Our two biggest trade chips going into the year were Aardsma and Bedard. Aardsma's done, Bedard's stock is sinking. What is it, the 16th today? It appears Bedard is going to throw a bullpen session soon, then another next week. The 'newest' projections have him starting in Boston, who we play 22-24. The old projections swore he'd start here against Texas. IF everything goes according to plan, which it never does with this guy, if we're really, really, really lucky we can get two starts out of him. Likely, we'll get one. Perhaps even likelier, we'll get none, and he won't be back before the deadline.

But the lack of trade chips really does sting for a franchise that seems unwilling to open the purse strings much anymore. Our best bet, sadly, is probably to openly pray that what we've got improves. Guti was pretty bad last year, and he's downright unwatchable this year. Is he still sick? Will the 2009 Guti ever come back? We might need him to, not sure how we upgrade without it. Smoak needs to get his stuff together, which he certainly can... he just needs to do it. Which, though possible, isn't a guarantee. Ichiro needs to defy his age, because even if he was hitting well there's a 0% chance he'd be traded. I'm actually afraid of when his deal expires our ownership would try to extend it, at the detriment of the team. With Figgins bleeding us dry at 3B, we're going to have to probably put all our eggs in the Seager/Liddi basket and hope one of them can hit a ML breaking ball.

If we DO drop some cash on a FA this year, how much would you overpay for Fielder? Trade Smoak for an up-and-coming LF or 3B/SS and a reliever?

[sharkz]

I think that a lot of public perception of Fister and Vargas are that they are products of Safeco and that they aren't as good as they look, which obviously drives their value down a bit. That's not exactly true because Vargas is actually even better away and Fister is only a bit worse. Either way I would be happy if we could get a B prospect and maybe another lower level prospect for them, although knowing Jack Z he would probably demand a top guy like Jesus Montero.

To be honest I wasnt sure what were people talking about when they kept saying stuff about Bedard's reemergence this year, because this year is turning out almost the same as 08 and 09. Starts off well, injured somewhere in mid-late June and doesnt come back. At least it's not the shoulder again, although yeah this basically drives his value back down to the point where we might have to settle for C level prospects. To think that Adam Jones could be out in the outfield instead of Peguero right now.......

Oh hey right as I type this Ichiro drives in Guti. 31 innings without scoring. Franchise record. Wow.

[Sweezo]

I think that a lot of public perception of Fister and Vargas are that they are products of Safeco and that they aren't as good as they look, which obviously drives their value down a bit. That's not exactly true because Vargas is actually even better away and Fister is only a bit worse.

Yeah...just looked up Vargas' and Fister's splits; with the exception of Fister's SLG% they're both putting the same numbers regardless of where they're pitching. Remarkable.

[Bay_Areas_Finest]

We have the most boring team in the history of baseball. Our offense is beyond pathetic and I have zero desire to watch any games the rest of the season. And when I do watch a game, nothing from our offense/defense affects me. Thats how much I couldn't care less about the rest of this year.

Get us an offense, FO.

[TTown]

To be honest I wasnt sure what were people talking about when they kept saying stuff about Bedard's reemergence this year, because this year is turning out almost the same as 08 and 09. Starts off well, injured somewhere in mid-late June and doesnt come back. At least it's not the shoulder again, although yeah this basically drives his value back down to the point where we might have to settle for C level prospects. To think that Adam Jones could be out in the outfield instead of Peguero right now.......

Well, for awhile Bedard was pitching as well as anyone in baseball, and since we had no real need for him he could have legitimately brought back a decent haul had he stayed healthy.

[TTown]

Andrus on third.

Hamilton at the plate.

Felix on the mound.

Hamilton hits a quick chopper back to Felix. He snags it easily. He stares down Andrus at third, keeping him on the bag. Looks at first, looks back to third. Andrus isn't going anywhere.

Felix lobs a high arching, slow moon throw to first, which Andrus immediately recognizes is going to take about a week and a half to reach Smoak's glove. He takes off from third. He's more than halfway home before the ball even gets to Smoak. Smoak throws a dart to Olivo, but of course it's too late. Andrus scores.

That one play upsets me more than our 31 inning scoreless streak. Felix, what the hell?

[jumanji]

Andrus on third.

Hamilton at the plate.

Felix on the mound.

Hamilton hits a quick chopper back to Felix. He snags it easily. He stares down Andrus at third, keeping him on the bag. Looks at first, looks back to third. Andrus isn't going anywhere.

Felix lobs a high arching, slow moon throw to first, which Andrus immediately recognizes is going to take about a week and a half to reach Smoak's glove. He takes off from third. He's more than halfway home before the ball even gets to Smoak. Smoak throws a dart to Olivo, but of course it's too late. Andrus scores.

That one play upsets me more than our 31 inning scoreless streak. Felix, what the hell?

At that point it's what 4 or 5 to 1. I can't blame Felix for being dejected although he isnt quite as dominant as last year.

Is it safe to say that the orginazation has a better eye for pitching than it does for hitters. This outfit is absolutely atrocius as far as the long ball or putting an inning together. On a sidenote i'd bring up Langerhans and send Peguero down at least Ryan can give you a professional atbat.

[TTown]

It's a weird feeling knowing that you have a legitimate shot at getting no-hit every single time you take the field. Broke up today's attempt in the 5th.

[Sweezo]

It's a weird feeling knowing that you have a legitimate shot at getting no-hit every single time you take the field. Broke up today's attempt in the 5th.

I'm also at the point where, if we give up two runs to the other team, I know the game is over.

And the pitchers seem to be feeling it, too. Look at Felix's reaction to that home run he gave up yesterday, or Bedard's reaction to the home run he gave up in his last start. They know as well as we do what a 2 run deficit means.

[Bulltalk]

This is why not drafting Rendon befuddled me at the time, as good as Hultzen may turn out to be. It was obvious what the top priority we had to address in the draft was.

I think we need to (considering next year):

1) Hold onto Ackley (obviously)
2) Hold onto Smoak (it would help to have better hitters around him)
3) Pay whatever it takes to sign Prince Fielder
4) I like the idea of acquiring Pence
5) Hope one other player from our farm steps up (Halman, Carp, etc...) before season's end
6) Pray that Guti becomes a respectable hitter again
7) I hardly know what else to do?

[Sweezo]

2) Hold onto Smoak (it would help to have better hitters around him)
3) Pay whatever it takes to sign Prince Fielder

But those two may be at odds with each other. The market for Fielder could be pretty intense; if the Yankees get involved and we offered equal contracts, I'd imagine Fielder would go to the good team where he would have a chance at being in the playoffs every year.

Fielder's indicated he prefers to play in the field, so what do you do? Do you put Fielder at 1B and DH Smoak? Or do you try to move Smoak for a different offensive piece?

Personally I'm not sure what Smoak's trade value is anyway. He hit well during one month this year, and all the others have been absolute crap. His batting average since April is .181. His OBP has remained respectable but he just isn't hitting.

Go figure that Beavan might end up being the best player we get out of the Cliff Lee deal.

[Bulltalk]

2) Hold onto Smoak (it would help to have better hitters around him)
3) Pay whatever it takes to sign Prince Fielder

But those two may be at odds with each other. The market for Fielder could be pretty intense; if the Yankees get involved and we offered equal contracts, I'd imagine Fielder would go to the good team where he would have a chance at being in the playoffs every year.

Fielder's indicated he prefers to play in the field, so what do you do? Do you put Fielder at 1B and DH Smoak? Or do you try to move Smoak for a different offensive piece?

Personally I'm not sure what Smoak's trade value is anyway. He hit well during one month this year, and all the others have been absolute crap. His batting average since April is .181. His OBP has remained respectable but he just isn't hitting.

Go figure that Beavan might end up being the best player we get out of the Cliff Lee deal.

Could Smoak play left field? Hide him there? He could DH. I'm just not ready to give up on the guy, especially when he still remains our best power hitter.

When you think of Fielder, there are only a few teams that have the money to go after him. Maybe 5 or 6. We are one of those. Perhaps 7 years and 160 million will do it for us. I'm not sure the Yanks or Boston will even go after him. You'd think it would be the Angels, Milwaukee (home team), Cubs, possibly the Yanks or Red Sox, and us. Fielder has said it is about the money. We simply outbid everyone else. We've got to do something. And Z and him have a good relationship.

[TTown]

That's exactly the thing about Fielder; the competition to sign him. Yanks have Tex at first base, and he's a Gold Glove first basemen, so he's not going to be moved. So if Prince is willing to DH, and both NY and Seattle throw mountains of money at him, where's he going to go? It'd take him a half second of consideration before putting on the pinstripes.

I would promise him first base and trade Smoak, personally. I like the kid and all, but this is an easy choice. I could see a team like Colorado, looking for Todd Helton's replacement, offering up something pretty decent for him. Good hitter's park + good hitters around him. Smoak has neither of those things here. I think his value is still relatively high, he's still young and has several factories going against him in Seattle.

On the other hand, signing Prince Fielder to a crazy payday is not going to fix this offense by itself. Left, 3B, SS, and CF are giant black holes. Instead of dropping $25 mil a year (not unrealistic for Fielder, especially if you're bidding against a couple New York teams), do you go after Michael Cuddyer, Wilson Bettimet, Laynce Nix? Cheaper guys who could upgrade multiple holes, and keep Smoak in place and hope he improves (same with Guti)?

[Bulltalk]

I'd outbid everyone for Fielder and keep Smoak. I don't see that as a big problem. We can always move Smoak a little later down the road if we wish. He could DH. Play left field. Would he be any worse than Ibanez out there with Guti covering him?

[TTown]

On the other hand, signing Prince Fielder to a crazy payday is not going to fix this offense by itself. Left, 3B, SS, and CF are giant black holes. Instead of dropping $25 mil a year (not unrealistic for Fielder, especially if you're bidding against a couple New York teams), do you go after Michael Cuddyer, Wilson Bettimet, Laynce Nix? Cheaper guys who could upgrade multiple holes, and keep Smoak in place and hope he improves (same with Guti)?

I wrote this walking out the door, planning to come back later and comb over a longer list of 2012 free agents.

Having done so... yikes. Not a strong crop. Overpaying for Fielder might actually be the best bet here, and hopefully swinging some sort of trade or two to bring in bats around him.