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Rumors..

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:17 pm
by b_roy7
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post ... =mlb,46661

Zito? Let's give them Sexson. Zito sucked this year, so has Richie, pretty fair. :D

Speaking of the Giants', what's with the ESPN rumors that we want Bonds?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post ... =mlb,46567
Catcher? We have catchers, Kenji could be moved..Seattle did have interest in D-Train before the trade deadline..


BUT, Bavasi isn't too bright.

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:07 pm
by PhilipNelsonFan
The Marlins will want Clement, and the more I think about a Clement/Johjima/Burke C rotation next year, the more I like it. So screw that. But I'd definitely listen if they want someone like Wlad Balentien.

Of course, most teams want young pitching, which the Mariners don't have enough of. The best-case scenario is to try and swing a trade in which the Mariners will take on all of Dontrelle's salary AND pay for some of the pieces sent to Florida to compensate for the obvious lack of talent we'll give up.

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:26 pm
by b_roy7
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post ... =mlb,46147

This was what I was missing from before..OH DEAR GOD...

Re: Rumors..

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:05 pm
by Ex-hippie
b_roy7 wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Is-Zito-Seattle-s-best-option-?urn=mlb,46661

Zito? Let's give them Sexson. Zito sucked this year, so has Richie, pretty fair. :D


Actually, Zito has sucked for a few years now. Or maybe he hasn't "sucked," exactly; after all, he's been extremely durable. But he's established in recent years that he's only a #3 starter at best. Sexson only has one more year on his oversized deal but Zito has five left. (EDIT: make that six. I hadn't RTFA before I responded; my bad.) I also find Zito's persona rather annoying. I wouldn't touch him unless San Fran agreed to eat a lot of his salary.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:26 am
by Basketball Jesus
Please, for the love of god, leave Willis for another sucker to take.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:09 pm
by Ex-hippie
Basketball Jesus wrote:Please, for the love of god, leave Willis for another sucker to take.


^ I kind of agree with that. I was a proponent of going after Willis at the deadline, on the theory that he would turn it back around. But since that time, he's gotten worse, not better. He's thrown a hell of a lot of innings at a very young age. I'd trade for him if Florida would take a liability off our hands, but I suspect they're still expecting to get players who are cheap, young and good. I don't want to trade any such players for him.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:01 pm
by Bulltalk
The Mariners might well have to take a gamble to get the starting pitching help they need.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:59 pm
by Ex-hippie
Anyone interested in acquiring a local guy?

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:04 pm
by BlackMamba
if there can be some sort of deal for zito's salary i would think he's a good option for the M's rotation.

on the other hand, i don't feel the same with willis.

i hope the M's change the actual GM & coach situation. that would be the 1st step to a proper offseason.

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:46 pm
by Basketball Jesus
Bay would be a nice pick-up but where would he go in the (crowded) outfield? Although, I'd assume that it'd take either Jones or Balentein to get him, so maybe it could work.

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:19 am
by Sweezo
BlackMamba wrote:i hope the M's change the actual GM & coach situation. that would be the 1st step to a proper offseason.


...and they just announced Bavasi and McLaren are being retained for next year. God. Damn. It. What the hell has McLaren done to deserve to stick around? Manage over a team while it pissed away a playoff spot? Yeah, great job. Give him a raise too while you're at it.

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:25 pm
by Ex-hippie
I've said before that the one silver lining to the late collapse was that Howard Lincoln and the ownership group would realize Bavasi and McLaren aren't adequate for this job. Now, this whole season was in vain. :banghead:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:33 pm
by Bulltalk
Sweezo wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



...and they just announced Bavasi and McLaren are being retained for next year. God. Damn. It. What the hell has McLaren done to deserve to stick around? Manage over a team while it pissed away a playoff spot? Yeah, great job. Give him a raise too while you're at it.


This is a bit depressing. I'm not sure who might have been a good fit for the Mariners at either of these two positions, but McClaren just comes across as lame to me, and Bavasi has proven to be bad at spending money a lot more often than not.

The thing is, this year may well have been a bit of an aberration. With the exception of Sexson, we hit very well for average as a team, and our bullpen was about as good as you could want or expect it to be. We simply lacked starting pitching and big time hitters. What has Bavasi done to shore up these areas, how has he spent our money? Sexson, Beltre, Weaver, Ramirez, Batista.....

Why didn't we just spend the damn money of Guerrero and gotten a sure thing a few years back?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:05 pm
by Basketball Jesus
This confirmation of Bavasi and McLaren makes me feel like the owners aren

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 pm
by Sweezo
Yeah, that confuses me as well. If I were an up and coming GM candidate, I'd see Seattle as a great destination. I'd see a decent farm, good fan support, a great facility, owners that are willing to pay $100 million+ to put a decent product on the field, and a roster full of players that managed to stay in contention for a playoff spot most of the year with some bad contracts that will come off the books in a year or two. Who want that job?

The M's just seem content to sell the fans short. Maintain the status quo, put a product on the field that the fans will pay to watch, and make little to no effort to actually win anything. So long as they make a profit and remain competitive, they're happy. And this has always been their downfall...

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:30 pm
by Bulltalk
Basketball Jesus wrote:This confirmation of Bavasi and McLaren makes me feel like the owners aren

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:28 pm
by Ex-hippie
Basketball Jesus wrote:*This has doubly hurt the team by not only not developing any kind of cost-efficient frontline talent to help the parent club but also by not developing the kind of secondary prospect that would enable to make them a player on the trade market.


Are things that bad on the farm? Seems like a good time to review the future of the franchise. Going position by position:

P - There is some front-line talent here, but most of those players are at least a few years away: Tillman, Butler, Aumont. The system has recently sent some good second-tier bullpen prospects, and one potential front-line starting prospect (Morrow), to the majors. There are some more secondary prospects in the pipeline who are probably ready for the Show now or will be very soon: Kameron Mickolio, Justin Thomas, Travis Chick, Andy Barb, Andrew Baldwin, Robert Rorbaugh. Of course, what we'd like most is top-tier starters who are close to the majors, and that's what we lack, unless you put Morrow in that category.

C - Clement is going to be on the roster in '08 and looks like the catcher of the future after being virtually written off early this season. Adam Moore also is impressive. Rob Johnson's star has dimmed considrably; he could still make it, but as a career backup.

1B - Not much here, except maybe future pinch-hitter Bryan Lahair. Or one of our 3B prospects could eventually move there.

2B - Yung-Chi Chen isn't healthy and is probably only a second-tier prospect even at 100%. He'll hit better than Lopez, at least.

SS - Here's where the jewel of the farm system sits: Carlos Triunfel. Could he be ready by 2009? Oswaldo Navarro is a good-glove, no-hit utility player, but I see that role going to Jose Lopez. Mike Morse is probably out of our plans.

3B - I really like Matt Mangini. He's my kind of player, a lefty hitter who already has more plate discipline than most players on the major league roster, and has the kind of line drive power that will enable him to do some damage in Safeco field. At the other end of the spectrum is Mario Martinez, a toolsy kid who hasn't done much of anything yet, but is still 18 and has lots of upside. People also seem to like Alex Liddi, though I can't figure out why; he strikes out at a frightening rate, doesn't walk much and has shown little power. Maybe Liddi's tall, lanky frame has room to put on some muscle and turn him into a legit power hitter, but it hasn't happened yet. Finally, Matt Tuiasosopo is still alive, and at just 21 still has a chance to turn into a role player, especially if he can play multiple positions.

OF - Jones is here and he's a starting outfielder. Balentien is here and if he's not a starting outfielder, then he's trade bait for someone like Jason Bay. The other outfielder of the future is Ichiro, now that he's signed for another half a decade. Greg Halman could be in the mix as well, although he struggled badly in High-A.

So, is the farm system in such bad shape? You can pencil in a potentially outstanding pitching staff and pretty solid lineup in two or three years. And once the team gets a little focus in the front office, it will be able to spend the big bucks to fill holes at 1B and DH... big boppers in the middle of the lineup, the kind who are worth the $15 million salaries we'll be able to shell out once we get rid of excess contractual baggage. Maybe a top starting pitcher as well, or a better second baseman, and we'll be good.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:19 am
by Basketball Jesus
Eh, I'm not as big on the pitchers as you are. Aside from Tillman, who's the jewel of the pitching prospects, there isn't anybody that could conceivably be a front-end starter in the majors. Butler's season, even when you account for the park factors, was downright awful and Aumont's too far away to project (especially in this system). Morrow's not really minor league depth anymore: he should have a role with the parent here on out. What that role is exactly, is another question for another time.) The rest grade out to be nothing more than (hopefully) back-end starters or competent relievers with Feierabend leading the charge. That's not exactly too encouraging, especially as the only very good starter this team has is King Felix. As for tradable assets: Butler's probably the only one they could move to get a good MLB player, and the M's would probably have to throw someone else in as well...

C is interesting given Johjima's contract status and the way Clement and Moore tore it up this year. Johnson's regressed to the point where he's more of an emergency call-up for a non-contender.

The IF is weak, outside of Truinfel. I really like Young Chicken but his injury has set him back a full year of development. Unless he comes out of the gate swinging next season, he's destined to be a Shin-Soo Choo type reserve.

The OF is somewhat stacked, in terms of potential but, outside of Jones and Balentien, very little of it is top- or second-tier. Not yet at least. I have hope for Kalian Sams turning into something of value.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:46 pm
by Ex-hippie
Even so, it's not really necessary to have enough prospects to fill out an entire Major League roster. They just need enough to form a young, cheap nucleus, where the holes are easily identifiable and able to be plugged with quality free agents. It will be enough if the team, in a few years, has enough homegrown players for 3/5 of a starting rotation, most of a bullpen, a catcher, a shortstop, a third baseman, and three outfielders. That leaves the team with a need for 2 starting pitchers, a first baseman, a second baseman and a DH -- 5 regular starters, and a budget of probably $70-75 million to go after them, as long as the youngsters are on their rookie contracts. Spend the money wisely and you'll have yourself a contender. Bonus if one or two more starting pitchers (Butler, Aumont, Feierabend?) and a second baseman (Chen?) become even decent regulars; that will just leave them with more to spend on the remaining needs.

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:01 am
by PhilipNelsonFan
This organization is not committed to winning. Period. Otherwise, Bavasi and MacLaren would have been sent packing.

LOL at the mention of Kalian Sams; he did really poorly in Everett this year and I barely saw him as much of a project. But what about Joe Dunigan?