We Suck--We're Out Of It Already--What's The Plan Now?

[Bulltalk]

Wow! It's before Memorial Day, and we're toast already. I thought with a little luck (hitting) that we'd be in it until at least the All Star break. No dice.

There is possibly one bright spot to this. Possibly. Bavasi probably won't make any real stupid move to act like we're in the race because we're not. Also, if this was Bavasi's last chance in the minds of upper management, then he's toast as well. Possibly McClaren, too.

Who's the next GM? What is the endgame for the rest of the season?

Inquiring minds want to know?

[Ex-hippie]

Who's the next GM?

I'll write you a recommendation letter if you write me one. Let's put the "real" in realgm.

[b_roy7]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'll write you a recommendation letter if you write me one. Let's put the "real" in realgm.

Please, don't be kidding.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

I'll write one for you, Bull, as soon as I get done with BlackMamba's letter of recommendation.

[BlackMamba]

I'll write one for you, Bull, as soon as I get done with BlackMamba's letter of recommendation.

it wouldn't be a bad choice, i've watched what, 15-20 games of the M's in the last 2-3 seasons, and i'm pretty sure i'd do a better job than bavasi



well, at least this means a high pick in the draft? the M's desperetally need some young blood almost ready to contribute. and a new GM, and a new coach?

i don't know who are out there that could be an option for both jobs.

[Basketball Jesus]

Oh man, how awesome would a joint committee of message board GMs living the part be?


In all seriousness, I

[Basketball Jesus]

As for the team: Bavasi has brought a bit of value to the farm, or at least there

[Bulltalk]

You all have my undivided support for GM.

What's the poop on Triunfel, Aumont, and Saunders down on the farm now? Haven't dug around on the outskirts in awhile. Somebody tell me something good who's been keeping up-to-date with such things.

Questions for me:

1) What is it going to take to get the Mariners to admit that we're sunk this year, and to make a commitment to our youth for the rest of the season?

2) What veterans on our team *might* some contender be interested in on our roster for the stretch run that *might* yield us some salary relief, and a decent prospect or two? Ibanez? Beltre? Jojhima? Washburn? Battista? God willing, Sexson?

3) Are there any REALISTIC FA targets for us this winter....hitters, of course?

4) Is Morrow going to be a starter for us next year?

5) Who should be gone next year?

6) What REALISTIC moves would it take to contend for the playoffs next year?

7) Who should be on the radar screen for us in the draft this year?

I'm with you on your perspective, BBJ. Outside of these future concerns, I'm already entering football mode and it's not even June yet.

Go Seahawks!

[Ex-hippie]

As for the team: Bavasi has brought a bit of value to the farm, or at least there

[Ex-hippie]

2) What veterans on our team *might* some contender be interested in on our roster for the stretch run that *might* yield us some salary relief, and a decent prospect or two? Ibanez? Beltre? Jojhima? Washburn? Battista? God willing, Sexson?

Ibanez - could be dangled as a rental/bat at the deadline, but his expiring contract is probably not worth any more than a couple of low-level prospects, like what we got for Moyer a couple years ago.

Beltre - under contract for another year and at full price, so probably not worth a valuable prospect, but you never know with GMs. Someone could bite and give up some value.

Johjima - I think definitely tradeable, since there is a shortage of decent catchers. See my idea above re possible Philly trade.

Washburn/Batista - maybe if we assume some of the salary obligation, say half, we can trade one of them for a low-level minor leaguer.

Sexson - no. I've been his #1 apologist on this board and still don't think he is as bad as others have made him out to be, but he's just a few months away from shopping for a minor league contract and spring training invite. Book it.

3) Are there any REALISTIC FA targets for us this winter....hitters, of course?

There are two I want, and they both bat lefty and play for Cincinnati right now.

4) Is Morrow going to be a starter for us next year?

He really should. If New York can put Joba in its rotation, we can put Morrow in ours. Just do it.

5) Who should be gone next year?

"Should"? Ideally: Bavasi, McLaren, Washburn, Batista, Johjima, Sexson, Lopez, Betancourt, Beltre and Vidro.

6) What REALISTIC moves would it take to contend for the playoffs next year?

Let Sexson ($15m) and Vidro ($8m) expire; trade Johjima ($8m); trade Washburn while agreeing to pick up half his salary ($4.5m); spend the $35.5m savings on two or three free agents who are actually worth it, not back-of-the-rotation starters.

[BlackMamba]

as i'm watching the game vs the yakees (losing 2-13 ) i was thinking about what "veterans" could be of value to start changing the teams face and the only one that came to mind is iba

[Argyle]

I'll tell you what the plan should be.

Give OKC the Mariners and have the Sonics play in a roof-enclosed Safeco.

[bennith13]

OKC gets nothing.

I think Mark Teixeira is a FA this off season. He is still pretty young and would be a good option at 1B.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

I'll tell you what the plan should be.

Give OKC the Mariners and have the Sonics play in a roof-enclosed Safeco.

Nice.

My two cents on this team's direction:

Catcher: I want Matt Clement to succeed as the future catcher of the Mariners. I don't know why the hell we rewarded Johjima with such a huge contract extension, but that's why our GM is the worst in baseball. Let Clement play his way out of the spot if his defense is so poor.

First Base: The only logical option I can see in the minors is Matt Mangini, who is pretty big for a 3B. Outside of that, we are f**ked at this position.

Second Base: Jose Lopez is a former All-Star. He still has a lot of potential, but he needs to start exercising it.

Shortstop: We can all agree that Betancourt has lost a step. Triunfel, as far as I can tell, is the future at this position and I see little reason why we should assume differently.

Third Base: I think Beltre has performed well in the face of ridiculous expectations created by Bavasi signing him during a contract year. My first move would be to pillage some unsuspecting playoff hopeful's farm system with a deadline deal...I think he still has good value. The problem is, I'm probably on an island with this, and I don't blame you all...but we just don't have any options.

Outfield: We're actually OK here. Ichiro and Wlad are cornerstones, and I have high hopes for Greg Halman as the third outfielder. If both Halman and Saunders prove to be major-league caliber players, then that's awesome.

Designated Hitter: ...Yeah.

Starting Rotation: The more I hear about Aumont, the more I'm convinced he'll be a solid No. 3 in the big show, possibly a good second fiddle to Felix. So I'd stack our rotation as Felix/Aumont/Bedard for right now. Silva is a decent fifth starter, but the issue is that we don't have a fourth. The draft has been relatively kind to us, but this year we have the 20th overall pick thanks to our flukish success. The mock draft sites have us targeting a college reliever, which is about the last thing we need. So we're f**ked here for another few seasons, unless someone in the minors steps up from mediocrity.

Relief Pitching: F**k you, Sean Green. Get off my team.

[Basketball Jesus]

Catcher: I want Matt Clement to succeed as the future catcher of the Mariners. I don't know why the hell we rewarded Johjima with such a huge contract extension, but that's why our GM is the worst in baseball. Let Clement play his way out of the spot if his defense is so poor.

Matt Clement can't even succeed at pitcher any more. I don't think a position change at age 33 is going to revive his major league career at this point.

First Base: The only logical option I can see in the minors is Matt Mangini, who is pretty big for a 3B. Outside of that, we are f**ked at this position.

Wha ha ha? Mangini? Mangini's one of the least logical options for first. He's got all of like 300 AB in the minors, not to mention a position shift down the defensive spectrum just puts more emphasis on his bat, which doesn't carry the power to be viable at 1B. Plus, Chuckie Peguero? He's no great shakes and 1B is definitely something that will need to be outside the org.

Second Base: Jose Lopez is a former All-Star. He still has a lot of potential, but he needs to start exercising it.

Agreed; at least he can hit an empty-calorie .300. If he's the weakest bat in the lineup, that's not really that bad...

Shortstop: We can all agree that Betancourt has lost a step. Triunfel, as far as I can tell, is the future at this position and I see little reason why we should assume differently.

Triunfel's destined for third or second...if he can ever live up to the hype. Getting suspended hasn't helped. But he's most definitely off short; he's pretty stiff in motion and he's growing. SS is a definite need but, with Oswaldo Navarro finally hitting a bit, why not give him a chance?

Third Base: I think Beltre has performed well in the face of ridiculous expectations created by Bavasi signing him during a contract year. My first move would be to pillage some unsuspecting playoff hopeful's farm system with a deadline deal...I think he still has good value. The problem is, I'm probably on an island with this, and I don't blame you all...but we just don't have any options.

Like Manny Ramirez, Beltre grew into his contract. Now it's not as much of an albatross as originally thought. Still, I don't see him as a long-term solution to 3B. I think this is Triunfel's spot to lose.

Outfield: We're actually OK here. Ichiro and Wlad are cornerstones, and I have high hopes for Greg Halman as the third outfielder. If both Halman and Saunders prove to be major-league caliber players, then that's awesome.

Pretty much. Although you have to worry about whether Balentien will ever be able to realize his power potential. If not, that puts a lot of undue pressure on lesser prospects like Saunders, Halman, and Daniel Carroll.

Starting Rotation: The more I hear about Aumont, the more I'm convinced he'll be a solid No. 3 in the big show, possibly a good second fiddle to Felix.

A lot of scouts are pretty impressed with Aumont; they think his potential is that of a front-end power pitcher. He's been neutering hitters at Wisconsin this season, which is a good sign, given the defense behind him.

On a side note, Chris Tillman has pretty much pitched his way into the Top-25 of all prospects of 2009. He is absolutely dominating at Double-A Bowie so far. Oh, and he's still not old enough to buy booze.

So I'd stack our rotation as Felix/Aumont/Bedard for right now. Silva is a decent fifth starter, but the issue is that we don't have a fourth.

Silva's an OK fourth if you put a good defense behind him but, in any regard, the Mariners need a back-end starter.

The draft has been relatively kind to us, but this year we have the 20th overall pick thanks to our flukish success. The mock draft sites have us targeting a college reliever, which is about the last thing we need. So we're f**ked here for another few seasons, unless someone in the minors steps up from mediocrity.

This year's draft is pretty thin for impact talent. And with very few teams abiding by the slot money this year, there'll be no Porcello-like drop in the late first. I'd be happy with a decent role player at #20.

Relief Pitching: F**k you, Sean Green. Get off my team.

??? Sean Green's been one of the most valuable relievers this season. It's not his fault McLaren puts him out there every night.

[PhilipNelsonFan]

Jesus, feel free to get my head examined re: Clement.

As far as Green goes, it's true that McLaren's throwing him out there every game, but he's never impressed me very much in middle relief anyway. I think we could do better, especially given a farm system built for producing no-name relief.

[Bulltalk]

Good reading. Thanks for the input. Some smart and knowledgeable baseball guys here. I appreciate.

[Argyle]

btw, not to be a naggy nit-picker, but Clement's first name is Jeff

[PhilipNelsonFan]

btw, not to be a naggy nit-picker, but Clement's first name is Jeff

I GET IT ALREADY. JESUS F**KING CHRIST! LET A MAN HAVE A SENIOR MOMENT, OK!

[b_roy7]

Wow, the season must really be bad inf PNF is forgetting people's names.