Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:56 pm
wow, great idea. i may have not much clue in many aspects but i will give it my best!!!
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:56 pm
Thanks for putting this on. This is pretty awesome.
Question though: where can we find salary figures/advanced statistics on other players? What are the best resources available to us for sabermetrics and contracts?
Question though: where can we find salary figures/advanced statistics on other players? What are the best resources available to us for sabermetrics and contracts?
Posted: Mon Jun 9, 2008 4:57 pm
I started scratching out my ideas for this thread, but I'm so frustrated and depressed about the M's now I can barely get myself to think about them for more than 5 minutes time.
Posted: Mon Jun 9, 2008 6:02 pm
I have a similar problem. Every time I think about it I become frustrated by being unable to figure out something for 1st base that wouldn't hamstring the team, or what to do with Johjima...
The starting rotation/bullpen would be rather easy IMO. Stick Batista and Washburn in the pen, move Dickey and Morrow into the starting five.
The starting rotation/bullpen would be rather easy IMO. Stick Batista and Washburn in the pen, move Dickey and Morrow into the starting five.
Posted: Mon Jun 9, 2008 8:16 pm
PNF sent in a rather inspired take on how he'd change the team. While not every move is my cup of tea, I do like a few of them. So far he's the frontrunner because, well, he's the only one that has submitted a proposal.
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:03 am
May I recommend an extension on the deadline if submissions are lacking?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:24 pm
yeah, i'm half way through my subission but could use and extension on the deadline, i don't think i would finish it in 5 days...
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:04 pm
Yeah, sounds good. How about July 1?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:12 pm
Basketball Jesus wrote:PNF sent in a rather inspired take on how he'd change the team. While not every move is my cup of tea, I do like a few of them. So far he's the frontrunner because, well, he's the only one that has submitted a proposal.
:HEART:
I won't reveal my entire plan, but here is a little advice:
-Sweezo, I killed two birds with one stone and used Johjima in a trade for a first baseman. I won't say who but I will admit it's a slight stretch, as he currently platoons right now.
-Personally, I'm not big on Morrow as a starter, and that free agent crop actually looks pretty decent. It is tempting to throw big money at Carsten Charles, but the payroll restriction is quite limiting and I had to work around that to get at my final payroll number.
-I had to swallow some personal pride and bring back one particular Mariner FA I didn't want to. It probably made my plan better.
-My priority list: starting pitching (toughest to acquire by a good distance), outfield, first base, designated hitter.
Also, I'm working off the assumption that BBJ wasn't that fond of my managerial hire.
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:16 am
Here's my entry. I might as well post it since who knows if BBJ has any other entries. Comment as you will.
PhilipNelsonFan wrote:So, I'm pulling an all-nighter tonight and decided I'd put my enthusiasm to some good use i.e. this contest. First, a little bit of my opinions on this team.
Pitching: Felix Hernandez is and will be the ace of the Mariners staff for years to come. Erik Bedard is a competent No. 2 who may pitch on level with an ace in some cases. From there, obviously, it's a huge drop-off. Bautista and Silva are fifth starters on good teams, and Jarrod Washburn has, to my disappointment, completely fallen off the map. He must be replaced as soon as possible. Two options in the minor leagues are Robert Rohrbaugh (ETA: 2009) and Philippe Aumont (ETA: 2011). Both have a little ways to go (in Aumont's case, a long ways) but you're looking at a No. 2 in Aumont and a No. 4 in Rohrbaugh should everything break right.
Relief is a totally different story, as the Mariners have a ton of home-grown options ripe for the picking. This is one of the strengths of the team, as a Mariners starter can get to the sixth inning and have the game comfortably wrapped up. That hasn't been the case this year, but this year is an aberration despite how we the board view it.
Catcher: Opinions may vary, but Jeff Clement is the future at this position and he will hold it down. The Mariners currently have a stellar unit of catchers, with Johjima, Burke, Clement and Rob Johnson.
Infield: Richie Sexson might not be let back into the state of Washington anytime soon; he must be replaced. Jose Lopez and Yuniesky Betancourt are near-locks in the middle infield, although both have not played up to their potential this season. Adrian Beltre will never live up to his contract year in 2004 but he has been a good player and the second-best player on the team for most of his tenure. He isn't a superstar by any means but he provides hitting and defense in nice quantities. There aren't many players in the minors to get excited about except for Carlos Triunfel (ETA: 2012), Matt Mangini (ETA: 2009) and Alex Liddi (ETA: 2011). The only player who may hold his position down in four years is Jose Lopez, as he has the most room to grow. Beltre is the best player but his future remains in doubt after his contract expires.
Outfield: Ichiro is a franchise cornerstone, and Wlad Balentien has the potential of being a mainstay and a power bat for the next decade. There are few salient options at the major league level, but the minor league level features such studs as Michael Saunders (ETA: 2009), Greg Halman (ETA: 2011), Carlos Peguero (ETA: 2011), Joe Dunigan (ETA: 2011) and Daniel Carroll (ETA: 2011). Once Ichiro is up for another extension, the outfield will be absolutely crowded with young talent, and the Mariners may have a much easier decision on their hands.
With that said, let's get to the moves.
First, Bill Bavasi and John McLaren will be fired and physically removed from the building. They will be replaced by:
Kim Ng, Assistant GM, Los Angeles Dodgers: $4 million/year
We've known for years that Kim Ng was the brains behind Paul DePodesta's operation in L.A. For goodness' sake, SOMEONE owes it to her to get her a GM spot, and why not a city like Seattle, which is open to new ideas and has a large Asian population?
Larry Bowa, 3rd base coach, Los Angeles Dodgers: $6 million/year
Tough to think of a manager I really covet, but I lure Bowa away from his lover Joe Torre because a) I still think he has the itch for managing a team, b) he has quite a lot of experience and c) this Mariners team will never be confused with a young team. Bowa's not quite on the level of still-beloved Lou Piniella, but damn if he can't stir it up with an umpire.
Second, dealing with the existing players:
Raul Ibanez: Let him walk. It's tough because Ibanez proves every so often that he can still swing a big stick, but his outfield defense really does suck and he's not long for this team after a while.
Willie Bloomquist: Re-sign him, 1 year, $1 million. I absolutely loathe Slick Willie, but he does play a useful utility role and the Mariners just don't have the personnel to fill in the gaps for players like him.
Miguel Cairo: Let him walk.
Jose Vidro: Let him walk.
Richie Sexson: Let him walk.
Jamie Burke: Re-sign him, 1 year, $500,000. Burke's an OK backup catcher who has the ability to pinch-hit. Gotta love it.
Arthur Rhodes: Let him walk.
Third, onto my designated trades:
Jarrod Washburn ($8.3 million in salary eaten), Yuniesky Betancourt, Mark Lowe, Sean Green and Jeremy Reed for Jeremy Bonderman and Ramon Santiago.
Why do the Tigers do this? In a word, relief. Jeremy Reed is exhibiting the ability to be a decent fourth outfielder, while Lowe and Green will help rejuvenate their bullpen. Edgar Renteria was a mistake, but Betancourt is cheaper and will have an opportunity to show Detroit that he can hit.
The Mariners pull the trigger because they get an above-average starter who's being bought low. Bonderman (like the rest of the Tigers) has not had a very good season, and he'll be watching over his shoulder as Rick Porcello and some of the Tigers' other studly pitching prospects work their way up the minors. It also does kinda help that Bonderman is from Washington state, as the Mariners, like the Blazers, love the local kids. Ramon Santiago is Willie Bloomquist-lite and would begin the year in AAA.
Kenji Johjima and a PTBNL for Chad Tracy and Yusmeiro Petit.
The Diamondbacks pull the trigger on this because their farm system will be able to spit out a replacement for Tracy without much hesitation and they get back a great defensive catcher who can still hit .280.
The Mariners do this as more of a temporary solution to the Richie Sexson problem, as well as saving a little green. Tracy can play first base and hit for power, which really helps ease the pain of a system starved for first base talent. Petit wasn't that special on the major league level but he may become special...he's currently in AAA posting a K/BB rate of 44/2. That's right.
Fourth, the Mariners' free agent signings:
Rafael Furcal: 4 years, $40 million ($10M/year). It does hurt to trade Yuniesky Betancourt, but in the end Rafael Furcal plays better defense and can do a lot of things with his bat. Furcal has kinda gone under the radar in L.A., as the young talent has taken over that team. He will be an excellent addition to the infield, turning double plays with Jose Lopez and having a .350 OBP.
Ken Griffey, Jr.: 3 years, $30 million ($10M/year). Impractical? Sure. A little wasteful? Of course. But signing Griffey will make it back up in ticket and merchandising sales alone, and Griffey still has quite a bit of power. Yes, he's been rendered immobile for the most part, but he still does more than Mike Morse on any given day. A lot of the athleticism may be gone now, but Junior can still do great things. His contract is set to expire the year before Ichiro's, at which time the outfield should be fully transformed as the young talent comes in. Griffey would still add value as a DH in that regard.
Russell Branyan: 1 year, $750,000. I know, I know. But Branyan can play 3B, 1B and corner outfielder, making him pretty valuable as a depth piece. And he can hit a little bit.
Fifth, some players need to be called up:
Jeff Clement, C ($400K)
Rob Johnson, C ($400K)
Ryan Feierabend, RP ($400K)
Eric O'Flaherty, RP ($400K)
YOUR 2009 SEATTLE MARINERS
Jeff Clement ($400K) C
Ichiro $17M OF
Wlad Balentien ($400K) OF
Adrian Beltre $12M 3B
Jose Lopez $1.6M 2B
Chad Tracy $4M 1B
Jamie Burke ($500k) C
Mike Morse ($400k) OF/1B
Rob Johnson ($400k) C
Rafael Furcal $10M SS
Willie Bloomquist $1M UTIL
Ken Griffey Jr. $10M OF
Russell Branyan ($750K) UTIL
Felix Hernandez ($540K) SP
Erik Bedard $7M SP
Carlos Silva $11M SP
Miguel Batista $9M SP
Jeremy Bonderman $8.5M SP
JJ Putz $5M RP
Brandon Morrow ($400K) RP
Ryan Rowland-Smith ($400K) RP
R.A. Dickey ($400K) RP
Ryan Feierabend ($400K) RP
Eric O’Flaherty ($400K) RP
Yusmeiro Petit ($400K) RP
PROJECTED BATTING ORDER:
1. Ichiro CF
2. Furcal SS
3. Beltre 3B
4. Clement C
5. Balentien LF
6. Tracy 1B
7. Griffey Jr. RF
8. Morse DH
9. Lopez 2B
BENCH:
Jamie Burke (C, PH)
Rob Johnson (C, PH)
Willie Bloomquist (2B, SS, OF, PR)
Russell Branyan (3B, 1B, OF, PH)
Mike Morse (1B, OF)
STARTING ROTATION:
Felix Hernandez
Erik Bedard
Jeremy Bonderman
Carlos Silva
Miguel Batista
RELIEF PITCHING:
Long relief: Ryan Feierabend
Long relief: R.A. Dickey
Middle relief: Eric O'Flaherty
7th-inning: Ryan Rowland-Smith
7th-inning: Yusmeiro Petit
Setup: Brandon Morrow
Closer: J.J. Putz
TOTAL PAYROLL: $109,790,000
This team is deep in relief pitching and has solid starters at every position, allowing it to compete for a playoff spot while allowing the young talent in the organization a cushion with which to develop and move up in the ranks. As the farm system builds, the team will have assets at its disposal to replace the older existing talent at more tolerable prices. This Mariners team may not be as ideally deep at the skill positions as we'd want, but the bench players are all pretty versatile and have OK bats (except Bloomquist).[/b]
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Sat Jul 5, 2008 12:48 am
well, i wanted to do mine but i didn't have enough time for the last 2 weeks.
but i like PNF's plan. i like a lot the furcal signing but not so much the bonderman trade. with félix and bedard the M's could have enough pitching, but i don't think that bonderman would be a good balance between the 1st 2 and the last 2. the good thing is that the M's bullpen looks really good.
i also like getting griffey jr. back more for sentimental reasons but it also helps with the lack of identity the team has and that besides ichiro the fans need more players to look up to.
can beltré, clement and balentin carry the offense? and why lópez all the way to the 9th?
the move that i'm most intrigued of is getting kim ng as the GM, that would be pretty nice and make a statement.
but i like PNF's plan. i like a lot the furcal signing but not so much the bonderman trade. with félix and bedard the M's could have enough pitching, but i don't think that bonderman would be a good balance between the 1st 2 and the last 2. the good thing is that the M's bullpen looks really good.
i also like getting griffey jr. back more for sentimental reasons but it also helps with the lack of identity the team has and that besides ichiro the fans need more players to look up to.
can beltré, clement and balentin carry the offense? and why lópez all the way to the 9th?
the move that i'm most intrigued of is getting kim ng as the GM, that would be pretty nice and make a statement.
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Sun Jul 6, 2008 3:03 am
Okay, I'll run through PNF's proposals. I think overall this is well-done, but let's see what kind of commentary I can add.
Another player who is shooting up the ranks with an ETA of 2009, or even September 2008, is Justin Thomas. He's another lefty with somewhat better stuff than Rohrbaugh or Ryan Feierabend, and his last few starts at West Tenn have been excellent. He could fit in as a very good #4 starter. Lower down there's also Juan Ramirez, who may yet turn out to be as good or better than Aumont. For next year, let's hope for a rotation of Felix, Bedard, Morrow, Thomas, Silva, leaving Washburn as trade bait (he's been better the last couple of starts) and hoping to reclaim Batista in the bullpen.
This still seems true, even after they've pissed away some of their better bullpen talent over the years. I would pencil in Josh Fields as the closer as early as next year, with Lowe, Batista, Green, Rowland-Smith and Jimenez filling out the pen. Key trade bait: J.J. Putz.
There's Adam Moore as well, and he might turn out to be the best of the bunch. Burke should be designated for assignment ASAP, Johjima should be dangled on the trade market (he's overpriced but decent catchers are hard to find, so he may fetch some value). I'll be okay with Johnson as the backup next year with Moore waiting in the wings.
This is true, although it's unfair to lay all of the blame for their troubles at his feet.
Unfortunately this is true. I can live with Lopez, who has settled in as a league-average player, which isn't terrible. Luis Valbuena might take his job eventually. On the other hand, Betancourt is horrible, and it's one of the great tragedies of this team's recent mismanagement that Adam Jones was pushed aside for this guy. Triunfel remains the great hope, but he's not going to be ready this year or next.
Agree with all this, and Matt Tuiasosopo remains in the third base mix as well.
Yep, and Jeremy Reed has quietly been one of the team's better players since his call-up. I remain a fan and would definitely consider him a candidate for the lineup in 2009.
Damn, that's a lot of money for a first-time GM! But it's bold. Cleveland assistant Chris Antonetti would make a decent choice as well.
Wow, you're spending some serious coin here. But I don't know if Bowa is the guy I would choose. I think I'm more into player-friendly managers. I don't think we need a whip-cracking guy like this.
I'd still sign him on a year-to-year basis. He genuinely wants to play in Seattle and consistently signs reasonably-priced contracts, and is a solid character guy as well. Really no downside, if only to have him as a bat off the bench.
Ugh. No. He's now over 100 plate appearances for the season with ZERO extra-base hits. You have to try to be that bad. He plays lots of positions, but none of them brilliantly. They can do better with Oswaldo Navarro and Mike Morse off the bench.
I'll get the door.
He should be designated for assignment any day now.
Yes, but I think he can play out the season. It's not like they have better options.
Nah, I'd cut him today and let Clement and Johjhima be the only two catchers on the roster, with Rob Johnson looking to earn a spot in 2009.
Buh-bye.
Interesting. Bonderman's stock is probably down and now might be the time to snag him. But does Detroit do this? Renteria might not be panning out for them, but he's not as bad as Betancourt. Detroit probably can shore up their bullpen depth; this was supposed to be a team strength as recently as last year; but with Zumaya gimpy, Rodney not working out, Grilli only so-so and Todd Freakin' Jones as closer, I would think they could improve there.
I like this. Tracy is a guy I've always liked and he's a versatile player with a lefty bat. Nice. But with Chris Snyder being a more than serviceable catcher and (I think) some hopes still being pegged on Miguel Montero, is this the right deal for the Snakes?
Wow, is he a free agent yet again? That went fast. I'd want to give it a stab. With the season he was having before he got hurt, he may well command more than that.
This is sentimental, but you didn't need me to tell you that. I'd take a pass, to tell you the truth. Maybe for one year at $10 million. He's been a marginal hitter this year, and that's in a favorable park in the inferior league. He could well be done. And after the "second honeymoon" wears off (read: a year or so), I don't think he'll help that much with merchandising and ticket sales if he's not producing.
Now, his teammate, Adam Dunn... drooooool. Cincy fans, normally a smart bunch, never knew what they had there. I'd jump at him.
Not a bad pickup. Other names around the same caliber would be Wes Helms and Kevin Mench.
Just one potential trading chip I would use: J.J. Putz. One team that I have identified that considers itself a contender but has an awful bullpen: Milwaukee. Their top prospect is outfielder Matt Laporta. He's probably too much of an elite prospect for Putz, but if they're desperate, you never know. And Laporta's defense is supposed to be shaky enough to result in an eventual move to first base, where Prince Fielder is holding down the job indefinitely. Will we have a vacancy at first base next year? Why yes, yes we will. And if Putz comes back strong off the DL, and shows the stuff that made him the league's most dominating closer last year, then maybe we're in business. There are two players named "J.J." who have been all-stars in major league history. One already plays for the Brew Crew; could the other one join him? I'd explore it.
Overall: a job well-done by PNF.
Pitching: Felix Hernandez is and will be the ace of the Mariners staff for years to come. Erik Bedard is a competent No. 2 who may pitch on level with an ace in some cases. From there, obviously, it's a huge drop-off. Bautista and Silva are fifth starters on good teams, and Jarrod Washburn has, to my disappointment, completely fallen off the map. He must be replaced as soon as possible. Two options in the minor leagues are Robert Rohrbaugh (ETA: 2009) and Philippe Aumont (ETA: 2011). Both have a little ways to go (in Aumont's case, a long ways) but you're looking at a No. 2 in Aumont and a No. 4 in Rohrbaugh should everything break right.
Another player who is shooting up the ranks with an ETA of 2009, or even September 2008, is Justin Thomas. He's another lefty with somewhat better stuff than Rohrbaugh or Ryan Feierabend, and his last few starts at West Tenn have been excellent. He could fit in as a very good #4 starter. Lower down there's also Juan Ramirez, who may yet turn out to be as good or better than Aumont. For next year, let's hope for a rotation of Felix, Bedard, Morrow, Thomas, Silva, leaving Washburn as trade bait (he's been better the last couple of starts) and hoping to reclaim Batista in the bullpen.
Relief is a totally different story, as the Mariners have a ton of home-grown options ripe for the picking. This is one of the strengths of the team, as a Mariners starter can get to the sixth inning and have the game comfortably wrapped up. That hasn't been the case this year, but this year is an aberration despite how we the board view it.
This still seems true, even after they've pissed away some of their better bullpen talent over the years. I would pencil in Josh Fields as the closer as early as next year, with Lowe, Batista, Green, Rowland-Smith and Jimenez filling out the pen. Key trade bait: J.J. Putz.
Catcher: Opinions may vary, but Jeff Clement is the future at this position and he will hold it down. The Mariners currently have a stellar unit of catchers, with Johjima, Burke, Clement and Rob Johnson.
There's Adam Moore as well, and he might turn out to be the best of the bunch. Burke should be designated for assignment ASAP, Johjima should be dangled on the trade market (he's overpriced but decent catchers are hard to find, so he may fetch some value). I'll be okay with Johnson as the backup next year with Moore waiting in the wings.
Infield: Richie Sexson might not be let back into the state of Washington anytime soon; he must be replaced.
This is true, although it's unfair to lay all of the blame for their troubles at his feet.
Jose Lopez and Yuniesky Betancourt are near-locks in the middle infield, although both have not played up to their potential this season.
Unfortunately this is true. I can live with Lopez, who has settled in as a league-average player, which isn't terrible. Luis Valbuena might take his job eventually. On the other hand, Betancourt is horrible, and it's one of the great tragedies of this team's recent mismanagement that Adam Jones was pushed aside for this guy. Triunfel remains the great hope, but he's not going to be ready this year or next.
Adrian Beltre will never live up to his contract year in 2004 but he has been a good player and the second-best player on the team for most of his tenure. He isn't a superstar by any means but he provides hitting and defense in nice quantities. There aren't many players in the minors to get excited about except for Carlos Triunfel (ETA: 2012), Matt Mangini (ETA: 2009) and Alex Liddi (ETA: 2011). The only player who may hold his position down in four years is Jose Lopez, as he has the most room to grow. Beltre is the best player but his future remains in doubt after his contract expires.
Agree with all this, and Matt Tuiasosopo remains in the third base mix as well.
Outfield: Ichiro is a franchise cornerstone, and Wlad Balentien has the potential of being a mainstay and a power bat for the next decade. There are few salient options at the major league level, but the minor league level features such studs as Michael Saunders (ETA: 2009), Greg Halman (ETA: 2011), Carlos Peguero (ETA: 2011), Joe Dunigan (ETA: 2011) and Daniel Carroll (ETA: 2011). Once Ichiro is up for another extension, the outfield will be absolutely crowded with young talent, and the Mariners may have a much easier decision on their hands.
Yep, and Jeremy Reed has quietly been one of the team's better players since his call-up. I remain a fan and would definitely consider him a candidate for the lineup in 2009.
With that said, let's get to the moves.
First, Bill Bavasi and John McLaren will be fired and physically removed from the building. They will be replaced by:
Kim Ng, Assistant GM, Los Angeles Dodgers: $4 million/year
Damn, that's a lot of money for a first-time GM! But it's bold. Cleveland assistant Chris Antonetti would make a decent choice as well.
Larry Bowa, 3rd base coach, Los Angeles Dodgers: $6 million/year
Wow, you're spending some serious coin here. But I don't know if Bowa is the guy I would choose. I think I'm more into player-friendly managers. I don't think we need a whip-cracking guy like this.
Raul Ibanez: Let him walk. It's tough because Ibanez proves every so often that he can still swing a big stick, but his outfield defense really does suck and he's not long for this team after a while.
I'd still sign him on a year-to-year basis. He genuinely wants to play in Seattle and consistently signs reasonably-priced contracts, and is a solid character guy as well. Really no downside, if only to have him as a bat off the bench.
Willie Bloomquist: Re-sign him, 1 year, $1 million. I absolutely loathe Slick Willie, but he does play a useful utility role and the Mariners just don't have the personnel to fill in the gaps for players like him.
Ugh. No. He's now over 100 plate appearances for the season with ZERO extra-base hits. You have to try to be that bad. He plays lots of positions, but none of them brilliantly. They can do better with Oswaldo Navarro and Mike Morse off the bench.
Miguel Cairo: Let him walk.
I'll get the door.
Jose Vidro: Let him walk.
He should be designated for assignment any day now.
Richie Sexson: Let him walk.
Yes, but I think he can play out the season. It's not like they have better options.
Jamie Burke: Re-sign him, 1 year, $500,000. Burke's an OK backup catcher who has the ability to pinch-hit. Gotta love it.
Nah, I'd cut him today and let Clement and Johjhima be the only two catchers on the roster, with Rob Johnson looking to earn a spot in 2009.
Arthur Rhodes: Let him walk.
Buh-bye.
Third, onto my designated trades:
Jarrod Washburn ($8.3 million in salary eaten), Yuniesky Betancourt, Mark Lowe, Sean Green and Jeremy Reed for Jeremy Bonderman and Ramon Santiago.
Why do the Tigers do this? In a word, relief. Jeremy Reed is exhibiting the ability to be a decent fourth outfielder, while Lowe and Green will help rejuvenate their bullpen. Edgar Renteria was a mistake, but Betancourt is cheaper and will have an opportunity to show Detroit that he can hit.
Interesting. Bonderman's stock is probably down and now might be the time to snag him. But does Detroit do this? Renteria might not be panning out for them, but he's not as bad as Betancourt. Detroit probably can shore up their bullpen depth; this was supposed to be a team strength as recently as last year; but with Zumaya gimpy, Rodney not working out, Grilli only so-so and Todd Freakin' Jones as closer, I would think they could improve there.
Kenji Johjima and a PTBNL for Chad Tracy and Yusmeiro Petit.
I like this. Tracy is a guy I've always liked and he's a versatile player with a lefty bat. Nice. But with Chris Snyder being a more than serviceable catcher and (I think) some hopes still being pegged on Miguel Montero, is this the right deal for the Snakes?
Fourth, the Mariners' free agent signings:
Rafael Furcal: 4 years, $40 million ($10M/year). It does hurt to trade Yuniesky Betancourt, but in the end Rafael Furcal plays better defense and can do a lot of things with his bat. Furcal has kinda gone under the radar in L.A., as the young talent has taken over that team. He will be an excellent addition to the infield, turning double plays with Jose Lopez and having a .350 OBP.
Wow, is he a free agent yet again? That went fast. I'd want to give it a stab. With the season he was having before he got hurt, he may well command more than that.
Ken Griffey, Jr.: 3 years, $30 million ($10M/year). Impractical? Sure. A little wasteful? Of course. But signing Griffey will make it back up in ticket and merchandising sales alone, and Griffey still has quite a bit of power. Yes, he's been rendered immobile for the most part, but he still does more than Mike Morse on any given day. A lot of the athleticism may be gone now, but Junior can still do great things. His contract is set to expire the year before Ichiro's, at which time the outfield should be fully transformed as the young talent comes in. Griffey would still add value as a DH in that regard.
This is sentimental, but you didn't need me to tell you that. I'd take a pass, to tell you the truth. Maybe for one year at $10 million. He's been a marginal hitter this year, and that's in a favorable park in the inferior league. He could well be done. And after the "second honeymoon" wears off (read: a year or so), I don't think he'll help that much with merchandising and ticket sales if he's not producing.
Now, his teammate, Adam Dunn... drooooool. Cincy fans, normally a smart bunch, never knew what they had there. I'd jump at him.
Russell Branyan: 1 year, $750,000. I know, I know. But Branyan can play 3B, 1B and corner outfielder, making him pretty valuable as a depth piece. And he can hit a little bit.
Not a bad pickup. Other names around the same caliber would be Wes Helms and Kevin Mench.
Just one potential trading chip I would use: J.J. Putz. One team that I have identified that considers itself a contender but has an awful bullpen: Milwaukee. Their top prospect is outfielder Matt Laporta. He's probably too much of an elite prospect for Putz, but if they're desperate, you never know. And Laporta's defense is supposed to be shaky enough to result in an eventual move to first base, where Prince Fielder is holding down the job indefinitely. Will we have a vacancy at first base next year? Why yes, yes we will. And if Putz comes back strong off the DL, and shows the stuff that made him the league's most dominating closer last year, then maybe we're in business. There are two players named "J.J." who have been all-stars in major league history. One already plays for the Brew Crew; could the other one join him? I'd explore it.
Overall: a job well-done by PNF.
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Sun Jul 6, 2008 11:23 pm
I don't really have that much to add to what's been put out there.
1) Get the best GM and manager that we can
2) Dump Sexson and Washburn at the least
3) Lopez is okay to keep
4) Betancourt? Hmm....keep him around unless we get something better
5) Ibanez? He's like a porcupine thrown in your lap...I don't quite know what to do with him
6) Beltre? It depends on what kind of FA bat(s) we can come up with
7) JJ Putz? I sort of agree with hippie that he may be our best trade bait not named Bedard
8) Make Morrow a starter...pretty much a dunk
9) Not much choice but to keep Silva and hope he performs as a #4 or #5 starter
10) Bedard? I can't BEAR the idea of trading him for much less than we gave up for him LOL
11) As for our minor league position/hitting talent, I have to see it at the major league level
12) Jojhima equals trade bait
13) I hope our #1 pick is ready to produce at least as a set up guy soon
14) Lord I'm hoping that we have ONE good to very good starter out of the minors for 2010 season
15) Ichiro? He's an icon...though I get tempted to trade him for young talent at times
16) Reed? Wouldn't it be nice if this guy actually came around like he was supposed to?
17) Griffey? I'll pass on him, but 2 years at the most if we do
I don't know. Our middle of the order (3-4-5-6) just SUCKS in total. It's almost unbearable to me.
1) Get the best GM and manager that we can
2) Dump Sexson and Washburn at the least
3) Lopez is okay to keep
4) Betancourt? Hmm....keep him around unless we get something better
5) Ibanez? He's like a porcupine thrown in your lap...I don't quite know what to do with him
6) Beltre? It depends on what kind of FA bat(s) we can come up with
7) JJ Putz? I sort of agree with hippie that he may be our best trade bait not named Bedard
8) Make Morrow a starter...pretty much a dunk
9) Not much choice but to keep Silva and hope he performs as a #4 or #5 starter
10) Bedard? I can't BEAR the idea of trading him for much less than we gave up for him LOL
11) As for our minor league position/hitting talent, I have to see it at the major league level
12) Jojhima equals trade bait
13) I hope our #1 pick is ready to produce at least as a set up guy soon
14) Lord I'm hoping that we have ONE good to very good starter out of the minors for 2010 season
15) Ichiro? He's an icon...though I get tempted to trade him for young talent at times
16) Reed? Wouldn't it be nice if this guy actually came around like he was supposed to?
17) Griffey? I'll pass on him, but 2 years at the most if we do
I don't know. Our middle of the order (3-4-5-6) just SUCKS in total. It's almost unbearable to me.
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Mon Jul 7, 2008 6:49 am
A couple things in response...
Putz as tradebait? I think Ex-Hippie might be on to something as the Brewers have just demonstrated they're willing to move pieces to contend by trading Laporta + for C.C. Sabathia. Is there anything left in their farm system for a closer?
I disagree about letting Sexson finishing out the season. Every at bat has gotten to the point of being painful, and every one at the park boos him regardless of what the outcome of his at bat is. The situation seems tense and I think, for the benefit of the team, Richie, and the fanbase, he needs to continue his career elsewhere. I don't think he's a complete lost cause, but there's no chance things turnaround here. While he is struggling, I do give Sexson credit for not leaving the playing field after every at bat with both middle fingers extended high in the air...I'd be sick of the fans' collective s*** by this point.
Vidro and Cairo are the same player, and as such should be given the same boot to the curb. Cairo plays at first b/c of his defense? Nonsense. His defense sucks, and much like the new Sexson he has zero power. Go away.
Agreed on the need to upgrade Betancourt. He's gotten fat, his defense is horribly overrated, he's a hacker, and besides the occassionally hot streak he's a liability at the plate. Move him while other GMs still think he has value...
Griffey at DH? Yeah, I'd prefer Dunn (who could be a bargain in this free agent market), but Griffey would be fun. If the team's around .500 or better and Griffey's doing well as a 4th OF/DH, I'd consider that a positive step and a season worth watching. As opposed to this season's abortion, anyway...
Keep stretching our RRS (I like what he's shown the law couple starts) and give Morrow a shot in the rotation. A rotation of Felix/Bedard/RRS/Dickey/Morrow could be both cheaper AND more effective than what we have this year. Seriously. I know we're stuck with Silva but you can't just run a guy out there because of his contract...play the players who give you the best chance to win. Get what you can for Washburn/Batista and move on. Change the thinking about what this team needs in its SP rotation...
Putz as tradebait? I think Ex-Hippie might be on to something as the Brewers have just demonstrated they're willing to move pieces to contend by trading Laporta + for C.C. Sabathia. Is there anything left in their farm system for a closer?
I disagree about letting Sexson finishing out the season. Every at bat has gotten to the point of being painful, and every one at the park boos him regardless of what the outcome of his at bat is. The situation seems tense and I think, for the benefit of the team, Richie, and the fanbase, he needs to continue his career elsewhere. I don't think he's a complete lost cause, but there's no chance things turnaround here. While he is struggling, I do give Sexson credit for not leaving the playing field after every at bat with both middle fingers extended high in the air...I'd be sick of the fans' collective s*** by this point.
Vidro and Cairo are the same player, and as such should be given the same boot to the curb. Cairo plays at first b/c of his defense? Nonsense. His defense sucks, and much like the new Sexson he has zero power. Go away.
Agreed on the need to upgrade Betancourt. He's gotten fat, his defense is horribly overrated, he's a hacker, and besides the occassionally hot streak he's a liability at the plate. Move him while other GMs still think he has value...
Griffey at DH? Yeah, I'd prefer Dunn (who could be a bargain in this free agent market), but Griffey would be fun. If the team's around .500 or better and Griffey's doing well as a 4th OF/DH, I'd consider that a positive step and a season worth watching. As opposed to this season's abortion, anyway...
Keep stretching our RRS (I like what he's shown the law couple starts) and give Morrow a shot in the rotation. A rotation of Felix/Bedard/RRS/Dickey/Morrow could be both cheaper AND more effective than what we have this year. Seriously. I know we're stuck with Silva but you can't just run a guy out there because of his contract...play the players who give you the best chance to win. Get what you can for Washburn/Batista and move on. Change the thinking about what this team needs in its SP rotation...
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Mon Jul 7, 2008 6:50 am
Another thought: Are there any albatross contracts out there that we could potentially take on in exchange for Silva? Someone who might be a good fit here without being any more crippling financially than Silva already is?
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Mon Jul 7, 2008 8:46 am
Hippie and Mamba: 
Thank you both for commenting on my proposal. To answer some of the criticism:
1. Our AAA team sucks outside of its relievers/spot starters. I saw some joke on Lookout Landing about how Tacoma may field an all-outfield team next year...it's pretty much true. We have no infield depth in the org, and I don't really trust Luis Valbuena. So retaining a guy like Bloomquist is a necessary evil IMO. There's no cheaper option out there. Might as well stick with one familiar to the Mariners. And I know Willie can hit for extra bases; for Christ's sake, I've seen him hit a grand slam in a game. It's worrisome that he's literally a singles hitter right now, but he'll probably snap out of it in some epic spot start.
2. I never liked Jeremy Reed. I thought he sucked royally when we got him, and wanted to trade him ever since he arrived. Now, trade him while his value's high. I'm not waiting for the other shoe to drop, and I think it will. Reed still sucks, he's just having a bit of good luck and I don't believe he can sustain it. He needs to go anyway.
3. Regarding the Griffey question, we know there are far better and cheaper options out there, but that kind of show of good faith goes a long way in building the franchise. Northwest fans in general are highly susceptible and responsive to these kinds of actions.
3. We have a lot of our problems centered on three starting pitchers: Washburn, Silva, and Bautista. The hope is that you can trade one of them in the offseason (eating salary all the while) and one of them will play better. We have to swallow the crap Bavasi filled us with. It sucks, but if we take a year to digest everything rebuilding will go better because of it.
Thank you both for commenting on my proposal. To answer some of the criticism:
1. Our AAA team sucks outside of its relievers/spot starters. I saw some joke on Lookout Landing about how Tacoma may field an all-outfield team next year...it's pretty much true. We have no infield depth in the org, and I don't really trust Luis Valbuena. So retaining a guy like Bloomquist is a necessary evil IMO. There's no cheaper option out there. Might as well stick with one familiar to the Mariners. And I know Willie can hit for extra bases; for Christ's sake, I've seen him hit a grand slam in a game. It's worrisome that he's literally a singles hitter right now, but he'll probably snap out of it in some epic spot start.
2. I never liked Jeremy Reed. I thought he sucked royally when we got him, and wanted to trade him ever since he arrived. Now, trade him while his value's high. I'm not waiting for the other shoe to drop, and I think it will. Reed still sucks, he's just having a bit of good luck and I don't believe he can sustain it. He needs to go anyway.
3. Regarding the Griffey question, we know there are far better and cheaper options out there, but that kind of show of good faith goes a long way in building the franchise. Northwest fans in general are highly susceptible and responsive to these kinds of actions.
3. We have a lot of our problems centered on three starting pitchers: Washburn, Silva, and Bautista. The hope is that you can trade one of them in the offseason (eating salary all the while) and one of them will play better. We have to swallow the crap Bavasi filled us with. It sucks, but if we take a year to digest everything rebuilding will go better because of it.
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Mon Jul 7, 2008 2:19 pm
Anyway, since none of the rest of us came up with detailed proposals of our own, it seems to me that PNF wins the internet.
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Mon Jul 7, 2008 4:44 pm
Thanks for posting yours PNF; when the new RealGM came out, I lost all my previous PMs.
Re: Contest Time! How to Build a Better Mariners
Posted: Mon Jul 7, 2008 5:25 pm
Ex-hippie did a good job breaking it down. Just a few things to add to his comments:
Apparently Moore’s defense has progressed considerably and he’s now a very good option to take over as a full-time catcher for the Mariners if he continues to hit like he has at Double-A (.300/.373/.468). While the Mariners seem intent on keeping Clement behind the plate as long as possible, the Mariners could have a potential Jeff Mathis/Mike Napoli time share to consider…which is never a bad thing.
Keep an eye on Mario Martinez. He was the other big-money SS international FA signing in 2006. Like Triunfel he’s a potential five-tooler but, also like Triunfel, there’s talk that he may have to move down the defensive spectrum, although some still think he has the potential to be an average defensive SS with an above-average bat. I think that we may end up seeing a bit more of Valbuena or Navarro next season, especially with WFB and Cairo out the door.
Of all the propositions PNF made, I think trading for Bonderman was the best one. Mind you this was before he suffered some kind of blot clot thingie but the point you made still stands: his stock has never been lower.
I don’t think either team would sign off on PNF’s deal, however: Detroit would be getting redundant parts (Washburn, Reed) without much else. I think that Yuni would be the basis of any deal, though. Maybe something like:
Yuni Betancourt
Sean Green
Jarrod Washburn (with the M’s eating 50% of the contract)
Carlos Peguero
for
Jeremy Bonderman
Minor prospect
I could see the Diamondbacks needing a guy like Johjima but not at the expense of Tracy. Johjima’s got very little value anymore thanks to that ridiculous extension. At best you could hope to unload him on a desperate team for meh prospects.
The upcoming FA market for SS is going to be absurd: I wholly expect Furcal to land a 5-year/$75-85MM deal or something similar. There just aren’t many good veteran SS anymore. That said, I’d rather the M’s dedicate money to staffing more necessary positions, like 1B and the corner outfield. Or like…
Free Adam Dunn!
Putz is having a terrible season. But, then again, teams go ga-ga batsh*t over “proven closers”. I’d move him at this trading deadline instead of in the offseason.
There's Adam Moore as well, and he might turn out to be the best of the bunch. Burke should be designated for assignment ASAP, Johjima should be dangled on the trade market (he's overpriced but decent catchers are hard to find, so he may fetch some value). I'll be okay with Johnson as the backup next year with Moore waiting in the wings.
Apparently Moore’s defense has progressed considerably and he’s now a very good option to take over as a full-time catcher for the Mariners if he continues to hit like he has at Double-A (.300/.373/.468). While the Mariners seem intent on keeping Clement behind the plate as long as possible, the Mariners could have a potential Jeff Mathis/Mike Napoli time share to consider…which is never a bad thing.
Unfortunately this is true. I can live with Lopez, who has settled in as a league-average player, which isn't terrible. Luis Valbuena might take his job eventually. On the other hand, Betancourt is horrible, and it's one of the great tragedies of this team's recent mismanagement that Adam Jones was pushed aside for this guy. Triunfel remains the great hope, but he's not going to be ready this year or next.
Keep an eye on Mario Martinez. He was the other big-money SS international FA signing in 2006. Like Triunfel he’s a potential five-tooler but, also like Triunfel, there’s talk that he may have to move down the defensive spectrum, although some still think he has the potential to be an average defensive SS with an above-average bat. I think that we may end up seeing a bit more of Valbuena or Navarro next season, especially with WFB and Cairo out the door.
Interesting. Bonderman's stock is probably down and now might be the time to snag him. But does Detroit do this? Renteria might not be panning out for them, but he's not as bad as Betancourt. Detroit probably can shore up their bullpen depth; this was supposed to be a team strength as recently as last year; but with Zumaya gimpy, Rodney not working out, Grilli only so-so and Todd Freakin' Jones as closer, I would think they could improve there
Of all the propositions PNF made, I think trading for Bonderman was the best one. Mind you this was before he suffered some kind of blot clot thingie but the point you made still stands: his stock has never been lower.
I don’t think either team would sign off on PNF’s deal, however: Detroit would be getting redundant parts (Washburn, Reed) without much else. I think that Yuni would be the basis of any deal, though. Maybe something like:
Yuni Betancourt
Sean Green
Jarrod Washburn (with the M’s eating 50% of the contract)
Carlos Peguero
for
Jeremy Bonderman
Minor prospect
I like this. Tracy is a guy I've always liked and he's a versatile player with a lefty bat. Nice. But with Chris Snyder being a more than serviceable catcher and (I think) some hopes still being pegged on Miguel Montero, is this the right deal for the Snakes?
I could see the Diamondbacks needing a guy like Johjima but not at the expense of Tracy. Johjima’s got very little value anymore thanks to that ridiculous extension. At best you could hope to unload him on a desperate team for meh prospects.
Wow, is he a free agent yet again? That went fast. I'd want to give it a stab. With the season he was having before he got hurt, he may well command more than that.
The upcoming FA market for SS is going to be absurd: I wholly expect Furcal to land a 5-year/$75-85MM deal or something similar. There just aren’t many good veteran SS anymore. That said, I’d rather the M’s dedicate money to staffing more necessary positions, like 1B and the corner outfield. Or like…
Now, his teammate, Adam Dunn... drooooool. Cincy fans, normally a smart bunch, never knew what they had there. I'd jump at him.
Free Adam Dunn!
Just one potential trading chip I would use: J.J. Putz.
Putz is having a terrible season. But, then again, teams go ga-ga batsh*t over “proven closers”. I’d move him at this trading deadline instead of in the offseason.