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On the wiretap. Right after Shelton was called up. Is he the plan for shortstop? Because Cedeno obviously isn't the answer.

I'll take Cedeno over Yuni...Cedeno's defense is decent, while Yuni was argubaly the worst defensive SS in baseball. Kudos to the organization for getting rid of a player who didn't really like to try hard.

Even if you didn't get any valuable prospect in return (and you did with Cortes and Saito has a chance to be a decent reliever as well), the trade was worth it because Betancourt hurts a team more than he helps it.

I'm about ready to canonize Z.

Yeah...got rid of a lazy player who won't realize his talent, saved some salary, and picked up one of the highest regarded prospects in the Royals organization. What's not to like?

How the hell did we land Danny Cortes? From the articles I read, he was the 2008 Royals minor league pitcher of the year and was rated as their second best prospect.

And we got HIM for Yuni? Are you kidding me?

Our front office is amazing.

Sweezo wrote:I'll take Cedeno over Yuni...Cedeno's defense is decent, while Yuni was argubaly the worst defensive SS in baseball. Kudos to the organization for getting rid of a player who didn't really like to try hard.

Cedeno, whose heart i like by the way, is not going to be the answer hitting a buck fifty. If someone can point to someone in the history of baseball that lasted hitting below the Mendoza line let me know.

I'd still be up for Jack Wilson, he's young enough he could be part of the future and doubt they'd have to break the bank to get him.

In agreement with Z being a freaking genius so far. Has to be exec of the year.

Let's make this unanimous, that's a hell of a deal. Good show.

jumanji wrote:I'd still be up for Jack Wilson, he's young enough he could be part of the future

He's going to be 32. He's not that young, but he's a good stopgap.

trwi7 wrote:

jumanji wrote:I'd still be up for Jack Wilson, he's young enough he could be part of the future

He's going to be 32. He's not that young, but he's a good stopgap.

He's 31 right now, to me that's young.

Ronny Cedeno is beyond garbage. I woul have preferred Yuni out there instead of him. Atleast Betancourt can hit above .200. But now that this trade has happened, we should call someone up from the minors and start him at SS so Cedeno never plays again. But I'm sure we'd hear some lame excuse like "Well Cedeno is a veteran" or somethin.

Bay_Areas_Finest wrote:Ronny Cedeno is beyond garbage. I woul have preferred Yuni out there instead of him. Atleast Betancourt can hit above .200. But now that this trade has happened, we should call someone up from the minors and start him at SS so Cedeno never plays again. But I'm sure we'd hear some lame excuse like "Well Cedeno is a veteran" or somethin.

Cedeno isnt the answer and i chuckle at the announcers who say "it's his job for the rest of the season", come on guys dont insult our intelligence. I could live with .250 for Ronny but he isnt going to survive at sub .200. Why cant we find a Michael Young to play SS, is it that hard?

jumanji wrote:Cedeno, whose heart i like by the way, is not going to be the answer hitting a buck fifty. If someone can point to someone in the history of baseball that lasted hitting below the Mendoza line let me know.

Never suggested he WAS the answer...I just hated Yuni. His lack of willingness to be a better player and get in shape was embarrassing, and I'm glad we're not stuck paying him a full salary any more. It sounds like Yuni didn't really have anyone defending him in the clubhouse anymore, and I'm glad the club showed that kind of thing wasn't going to be accepted.

Cedeno's not much of a hitter but he's an average defender. Yuni is/was the worst defensive SS in baseball, and for a pitching staff like ours that could cost us games. Who knows, it may have already done so...for a team with a penchant for playing in close games, having a SS who constantly shades towards 3B [where a 3B with fantastic range was playing at the time] and seeing dribblers bounce up the middle meant baserunners and sometimes runs.

While Yuni had a higher batting average, it was a hollow thing. While the team emphasized taking pitches and exercising discipline, Yuni still swung like a madman. Which lead to pop-ups and weak grounders when the team needed something to advance a runner.

At this point in time, if you weight defense and offense properly Cedeno's a better player than Betancourt. If you believe in WAR, both Cedeno and Betancourt project as worse than replacement level players...with Betancourt being the worse of the two. That's shameful...here Cedeno's struggling to bat .200, and he's still better than the one time future cornerstone SS for the franchise.

Given that, I'll take Cedeno over Yuni any day of the week until a better option comes along.

Bay_Areas_Finest wrote:Ronny Cedeno is beyond garbage. I woul have preferred Yuni out there instead of him. Atleast Betancourt can hit above .200. But now that this trade has happened, we should call someone up from the minors and start him at SS so Cedeno never plays again. But I'm sure we'd hear some lame excuse like "Well Cedeno is a veteran" or somethin.

Because that's the type of thing we've been hearing from our GM? C'mon...don't hold prior organizational philosophies against a regime that's shown nothing in terms of following that status quo.

What has anyone seen out of our GM that would lead them to believe he's content with the way things are at SS? I'm completely confident the problem will be addressed, and I'm glad he was able to add two arms to the system that may lessen the blow a bit when a trade is made to add a proper SS.

jumanji wrote:Cedeno isnt the answer and i chuckle at the announcers who say "it's his job for the rest of the season", come on guys dont insult our intelligence. I could live with .250 for Ronny but he isnt going to survive at sub .200. Why cant we find a Michael Young to play SS, is it that hard?

Again, the argument isn't 'who gets more base hits', it's about who is the better overall baseball player. That means who's the better defender, who hits for more power, who gets on base better, who knows how to work a count better, etc. If you add all those things up, Cedeno's not good. And yet, still comes out well ahead of the newest Royal...

Cedeno makes plays in the field that Betancourt didn't, and he does it with enough regularity that he contributes more to this team than Betancourt did.

Washburn, Felix, Olson, Vargas, Aardsma, and Bedard aren't having better years because of some mechanical tweak Rick Adair suggested...they look better because they play in a big park with a vastly improved defense behind them.

Take Washburn, for example. Washburn's still a flyball pitcher...his LD% this year [23%] is nearly the same as last year's [22%]. His HR rate is nearly identical as last year's. Granted his K% is a bit higher, but that doesn't explain why his XBH% is the lowest it's ever been in his career. Washburn's an established quantity...you know what to expect from him on a year to year basis. If he's giving up the same amount as line drives as last year, and knowing he has no control over where those LD go, why is his ERA the lowest it's ever been in his career?

Because he has guys behind him who can get to balls put in play that most players can't. That's it. He hasn't reinvented himself. He's still, by and large, the same player he's been for the last decade.

Defense is hugely important to why this year's team is fighting for a playoff spot, and Cedeno's defense is superior to Yuni's. Who hits .200 and who hits .250 is largely irrelevant to me...it's one stat that takes a narrow view of what it means to help a team win games. There's a lot more things to consider when determining who's the better player.

Sweezo wrote:

jumanji wrote:Cedeno isnt the answer and i chuckle at the announcers who say "it's his job for the rest of the season", come on guys dont insult our intelligence. I could live with .250 for Ronny but he isnt going to survive at sub .200. Why cant we find a Michael Young to play SS, is it that hard?

Again, the argument isn't 'who gets more base hits', it's about who is the better overall baseball player. That means who's the better defender, who hits for more power, who gets on base better, who knows how to work a count better, etc. If you add all those things up, Cedeno's not good. And yet, still comes out well ahead of the newest Royal...

Cedeno makes plays in the field that Betancourt didn't, and he does it with enough regularity that he contributes more to this team than Betancourt did.

Washburn, Felix, Olson, Vargas, Aardsma, and Bedard aren't having better years because of some mechanical tweak Rick Adair suggested...they look better because they play in a big park with a vastly improved defense behind them.

Take Washburn, for example. Washburn's still a flyball pitcher...his LD% this year [23%] is nearly the same as last year's [22%]. His HR rate is nearly identical as last year's. Granted his K% is a bit higher, but that doesn't explain why his XBH% is the lowest it's ever been in his career. Washburn's an established quantity...you know what to expect from him on a year to year basis. If he's giving up the same amount as line drives as last year, and knowing he has no control over where those LD go, why is his ERA the lowest it's ever been in his career?

Because he has guys behind him who can get to balls put in play that most players can't. That's it. He hasn't reinvented himself. He's still, by and large, the same player he's been for the last decade.

Defense is hugely important to why this year's team is fighting for a playoff spot, and Cedeno's defense is superior to Yuni's. Who hits .200 and who hits .250 is largely irrelevant to me...it's one stat that takes a narrow view of what it means to help a team win games. There's a lot more things to consider when determining who's the better player.

Nice response there but my point is it's not a given that Cedeno, with his paultry batting average, is going to be any permanent solution. Him being a better option than Yuni really isnt saying much.

To quote the long-time Royals observer and all-around awesome baseball writer Joe Posnanski:

In three hundred years kids will be sitting around a campfire and singing songs about how bad a shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt was.

Also, the best-known Royals blogger, Rany Jazayerli, now threatens to find a new team to root for because of this trade (warning: long rant).

^^^

I'm just happy he's gone, that we're not paying his whole salary anymore. That we supposedly got one of their better pitching prospects in the deal is beyond comprehension to me. I swear I just saw the face of Jesus in my cup when I poured cream in my coffee.

Sweezo pretty much summed up my thoughts about Yuni. It's addition by subtraction. Yeah, Cedeno's not the answer, as in DUH! I don't think we have to remind Waku or Z about this. We're running out of fig leaves for our batting order. But that's our equation for the year. We've just got to hope that Branyan doesn't drop off too much, that Gutierrez keeps getting better, that Lopez shows a little more consistency with the bat, that Griffey can put together a hot streak or two before season's end, etc...

Let's face it. Finishing ahead of the Angels this year is going to take a perfectly targeted pitch of a stone from a slingshot. But they're keeping it interesting a lot longer than most of us ever imagined, and we certainly have a future to look forward to in the post Bavasi era.