Trade Discussion 22/23

[ozwizard8]

Trade 1:
Mavs gets: #6 Taylor Hendericks, Johnathan Isaac, Bol Bol
Orlando gets: #10 Gradey Dick, Josh Green, Bertan Dust Chip, lottery-protected 1st

Trade 2:
Mavs gets: #21 Dereck Lively II, Ben Simmons
Brooklyn gets: Tim Hardaway, Maxi Kleber, JaVale McGee

C - Dereck Lively II / Mo Bamba (8M) / Boban Marjanovic (MIN)
PF - Taylor Hendericks / Bol Bol / Dwight Powell (MIN)
SF - Johnathan Isaac / Reggie Bullock
SG - Jaden Hardy / Seth Curry (8M)
PG - Luka Doncic / Ben Simmons / Frank Ntilikina (MIN)

Does it work after all? The Mavs gets younger, bigger and more athletic. Keep Luka happy even if Kyrie walks. Stay competitive. Simmons with four shooter should be fine for the 2nd unit. The starters are defense and rebounding heavy while Hardy playing bigger role offensively.

You might trade Luka as well if you plan to play all rookies and sophomores in your starting lineup. I mean this is a rebuilding roster. Having Luka would put you out of top 5 pick range so it doesn't help any causes IMO.

In this league you can always find offensive juggernauts without defense. Or find great athletes with no offense. Jonathan Isaac-Taylor Hendricks-Lively frontcourt is just not going to cut it.
If these trade ever happens, I'd just pry for Ben Simmons making a come back.
Prime Ben Simmons was all-nba first defense team. Great defense, rebounding and transition plays. I think he lost most of it after the back injuries.

Playing defense is an attitude with size, athleticism and smartness. Those rookies have them most. When your comparison is only Powell, Wood and Kleber after serious injury. Things are not really that bad. For sure, this is an upgrade, at least defensively. People in the past dare not to trade Maxi for Markkanen. Most of them regret deeply now. Klesser is a rookie but is already better than all the frontcourt pieces the Mavs has.

You have a point that our current roster is being ****. Defense and athleticism is what Mavs needs to get back to playoffs and make the 2nd round. So that should be the priority.

However, rookies are not good for 35 mpg in regular season or playoffs. Maxi did not become more athletic compared to 2018 but he has more experience now. So you can trust him in playoff time. Silly mistakes, foul trouble, making big shots. Most rookies lack those things.

Josh Green was not bearable for his first 2 years. So if you get rookies, that means Mavs needs 2-3 years to become a playoff team. That was something Mavs should've done before the KP trade. Luka would wait for 2-3 years back then. Now he might ask for a trade.

Btw I always liked Marknanen a lot. I think making impact on offense comes faster for skilled players. Defensive side usually needs some experience to understand how and when REFs call fouls. Also you need to learn and avoid veteran tricks.

[ozwizard8]

Bertans is basically an expires... It's a easy trade.

$17m guaranteed this year and $5m for next year. It is a negative contract. Do you think can we send Bertans to any team with a compensation of 2nd round pick?
I am not sure if a 2nd round pick would be enough for taking $17m+$5m dead salary.
Add THJ on this. That team is already have many offensive guards including Buddy Hield.

What is in it for the Pacers? Are they going to tank properly? They seem to never do that. I'd love this type of deal to bring Myles Turner. Sending out THJ+Bertans for cap space would cost at least 1st round pick. If you get back Turner then you do that in a heartbeat.

Kidd has completely reset Bertans value trade this year, a 40% career 3points shooters has always room in a team with Luka Doncic (at least in RS).
Kidd is a very limited coach.

Duncan freakin Robinson will play the Finals for the second time in his career... Come on

We can only use Bertans for salary match and nothing more right now.
But i think THJ has lesser trade value

I think Bertans is a negative contract. So there is no value in that. Duncan Robinson moves better and probably defends better, he can actually make solid cuts on offense.
THJ is more like Robinson but then again I am not sure if you can send THJ without taking any other bad contract back.

[Mavrelous]

I think Bertans is a negative contract. So there is no value in that. Duncan Robinson moves better and probably defends better, he can actually make solid cuts on offense.
THJ is more like Robinson but then again I am not sure if you can send THJ without taking any other bad contract back.

Davis Bertans is a very similar player to Duncan Robinson, I actually think he's better, but coaching staff is stuck on the no D limitation and aren't playing him.
When Spo was forced to play DRIII, he paid him back with dividends, he did have 3-4 cold shooting nights, but he also won them 3-4 games with lights out shooting.
Regardless, Bertans is and exipirng contrant, and for teams like ATL, Clippers, Warriors or Suns, who may need to reduce payroll, Bertans can be stretched for 5 years instead of 3, which makes him kind of an asset, you can trade 22 million contract for Davis and have cap hit of only 4 millions, that's huge for team who want to drop below the Apron.

[Mavrelous]

BTW, it goes to show the lack of creativity of the coaching staff.
The roster can't defend, and the non Luka minutes were torture, I never seen Kidd try a zone lineup with McGee/DFS/Bertans frontcourt, Spolstra made weirder experiments with less talent.

[Mavrelous]

A TPMLE target if Mavs invest in forwards in draft and trades is Jaxon Hayes, he had a horrible year, but he had 3 pt range, is athletic and can rim run, but he's worse that Wood on defensive awareness...

[41Dirk41]

BTW, it goes to show the lack of creativity of the coaching staff.
The roster can't defend, and the non Luka minutes were torture, I never seen Kidd try a zone lineup with McGee/DFS/Bertans frontcourt, Spolstra made weirder experiments with less talent.

Kidd was awful. No doubt.
I can't understand why he is still on our bench.
This year was one of the biggest failure on Mavs history.

[Mr B]

I saw this trade idea somewhere. Would you trade: THJ+10 for Capela+15?

And if you would do that trade would you still draft Lively at 15? Can Lively play the 4?

[fuller4379]

Wtf are you talking about?
Mavs made WCF with great performance of Brunson. Its your own rookie. You go and ask how much he wants. Mavs never offered $100m or $120-130m.
Mavs are the one who should've gave the extension. They did not. Then in Free Agency, Mavs had every chance to call Jalen and or his agent to offer whatever money. They simply did not. Teams go and offer contract for UFA. Not the other way around.

Do we need to wait 10 years to hear the obvious thing again like S.Nash incident? Jalen and his camp told they're willing to sign extension earlier. They also told they did not get any interest, respect, or offer to resign in the summer.

Brunson's representatives contacted the Dallas Mavericks, his former team, on Thursday afternoon to inform them of the guard's intentions to sign with the Knicks, sources said. A planned meeting was called off after the conversation.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34174978/sources-dallas-mavericks-informed-jalen-brunson-intends-sign-new-york-knicks

You can suck Cuban or Nico all day long. It doesn't change the fact that Mavs deliberately made a decision to not to sign Brunson on 3 occasions. Mavs (Nico-Cuban) talent evaluation is ****. If they knew anything, they'd sign him for a max if needed.
Brunson and his camp told numerous times that Mavs were not even willing to offer anything to them.

You are clueless.
2021 offseason, 2022 deadline, 2022 offseason, Mavs paid 0 respect and show 0 interest in extending Brunson. Cuban-Nico could've called Jalen and pitch a lucrative deal. If Mavs had actual interest to pay Brunson $100-120m then they could've told him that in the exit meeting after the WCF. Even after Brunson informing about Knicks intention, you can simply pay $20-30m more to make him stay, or make Knicks pay more.

Anyway, this is same **** with Steve Nash. Cuban will admit this as one of the biggest mistakes he ever made in a few years. You can continue sucking him and to-be-fired GM Nico Harrison for now.

[Archx]

I saw this trade idea somewhere. Would you trade: THJ+10 for Capela+15?

And if you would do that trade would you still draft Lively at 15? Can Lively play the 4?

You mean this? From The Athletic article?

[Cato] Who can Mavericks get if they trade No. 10 pick? We asked experts to rate our fake trades.

Boucher/OPJ for 10/Bertans

OG/Thad for 10/Green/THJ

15/Capela for 10/THJ

15/Hunter for 10/Green/Bertans

21/O'Neale/Mills for 10/Bertans

Holmes for Bertans

Nance/Hernangomez/Temple for Bullock/McGee

[Mr B]

I saw this trade idea somewhere. Would you trade: THJ+10 for Capela+15?

And if you would do that trade would you still draft Lively at 15? Can Lively play the 4?

You mean this? From The Athletic article?

[Cato] Who can Mavericks get if they trade No. 10 pick? We asked experts to rate our fake trades.

Boucher/OPJ for 10/Bertans

OG/Thad for 10/Green/THJ

15/Capela for 10/THJ

15/Hunter for 10/Green/Bertans

21/O'Neale/Mills for 10/Bertans

Holmes for Bertans

Nance/Hernangomez/Temple for Bullock/McGee

Yea that must have been where I saw that trade idea. Personally I’d do it. At 15 Lively makes more sense or I think that’s also a better spot to draft Jordan Hawkins.

[ozwizard8]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34174978/sources-dallas-mavericks-informed-jalen-brunson-intends-sign-new-york-knicks

You can suck Cuban or Nico all day long. It doesn't change the fact that Mavs deliberately made a decision to not to sign Brunson on 3 occasions. Mavs (Nico-Cuban) talent evaluation is ****. If they knew anything, they'd sign him for a max if needed.
Brunson and his camp told numerous times that Mavs were not even willing to offer anything to them.

You are clueless.
2021 offseason, 2022 deadline, 2022 offseason, Mavs paid 0 respect and show 0 interest in extending Brunson. Cuban-Nico could've called Jalen and pitch a lucrative deal. If Mavs had actual interest to pay Brunson $100-120m then they could've told him that in the exit meeting after the WCF. Even after Brunson informing about Knicks intention, you can simply pay $20-30m more to make him stay, or make Knicks pay more.

Anyway, this is same **** with Steve Nash. Cuban will admit this as one of the biggest mistakes he ever made in a few years. You can continue sucking him and to-be-fired GM Nico Harrison for now.

Not having arguments and getting angry
Cry elsewhere.

[ozwizard8]

I think Bertans is a negative contract. So there is no value in that. Duncan Robinson moves better and probably defends better, he can actually make solid cuts on offense.
THJ is more like Robinson but then again I am not sure if you can send THJ without taking any other bad contract back.

Davis Bertans is a very similar player to Duncan Robinson, I actually think he's better, but coaching staff is stuck on the no D limitation and aren't playing him.
When Spo was forced to play DRIII, he paid him back with dividends, he did have 3-4 cold shooting nights, but he also won them 3-4 games with lights out shooting.
Regardless, Bertans is and exipirng contrant, and for teams like ATL, Clippers, Warriors or Suns, who may need to reduce payroll, Bertans can be stretched for 5 years instead of 3, which makes him kind of an asset, you can trade 22 million contract for Davis and have cap hit of only 4 millions, that's huge for team who want to drop below the Apron.

I dont understand why do we overrate Bertans here. I haven't work on a scouting tape on him but my eye test says Bertans is slower, less athletic, had more injuries. Just because those two are shooters do not mean they're the same. Bertans and his screen running, cutting looks like two steps behind and slower than Duncan Robinson. And its not like Duncan Robinson is a great player or sth...

Hope you are right! If they can trade Bertans for free I'd be happy.

[41Dirk41]

I think Bertans is a negative contract. So there is no value in that. Duncan Robinson moves better and probably defends better, he can actually make solid cuts on offense.
THJ is more like Robinson but then again I am not sure if you can send THJ without taking any other bad contract back.

Davis Bertans is a very similar player to Duncan Robinson, I actually think he's better, but coaching staff is stuck on the no D limitation and aren't playing him.
When Spo was forced to play DRIII, he paid him back with dividends, he did have 3-4 cold shooting nights, but he also won them 3-4 games with lights out shooting.
Regardless, Bertans is and exipirng contrant, and for teams like ATL, Clippers, Warriors or Suns, who may need to reduce payroll, Bertans can be stretched for 5 years instead of 3, which makes him kind of an asset, you can trade 22 million contract for Davis and have cap hit of only 4 millions, that's huge for team who want to drop below the Apron.

I dont understand why do we overrate Bertans here. I haven't work on a scouting tape on him but my eye test says Bertans is slower, less athletic, had more injuries. Just because those two are shooters do not mean they're the same. Bertans and his screen running, cutting looks like two steps behind and slower than Duncan Robinson. And its not like Duncan Robinson is a great player or sth...

Hope you are right! If they can trade Bertans for free I'd be happy.

Nobody is less athletic than Robinson

Bertans is a specialist, a role player.
He played 20+ minutes in the last 4 years before joining Mavs.
He can play and be useful if used in the right way, obviously if Kidd put him at the C he can only be disastrous.

Kidd rotations this year was one the worst i've never seen in 30years of Mavs. Seriously.

[Archx]

I saw this trade idea somewhere. Would you trade: THJ+10 for Capela+15?

And if you would do that trade would you still draft Lively at 15? Can Lively play the 4?

You mean this? From The Athletic article?

[Cato] Who can Mavericks get if they trade No. 10 pick? We asked experts to rate our fake trades.

Boucher/OPJ for 10/Bertans

OG/Thad for 10/Green/THJ

15/Capela for 10/THJ

15/Hunter for 10/Green/Bertans

21/O'Neale/Mills for 10/Bertans

Holmes for Bertans

Nance/Hernangomez/Temple for Bullock/McGee

Yea that must have been where I saw that trade idea. Personally I’d do it. At 15 Lively makes more sense or I think that’s also a better spot to draft Jordan Hawkins.

Yep. I also think realistic expectations are either Capela or Claxton but i'm not sure Nets would do it just like that. Other options are Turner and Ayton but i believe Pacers and Suns don't want to deal with Mavs.

[Mr B]

You mean this? From The Athletic article?

[Cato] Who can Mavericks get if they trade No. 10 pick? We asked experts to rate our fake trades.

Boucher/OPJ for 10/Bertans

OG/Thad for 10/Green/THJ

15/Capela for 10/THJ

15/Hunter for 10/Green/Bertans

21/O'Neale/Mills for 10/Bertans

Holmes for Bertans

Nance/Hernangomez/Temple for Bullock/McGee

Yea that must have been where I saw that trade idea. Personally I’d do it. At 15 Lively makes more sense or I think that’s also a better spot to draft Jordan Hawkins.

Yep. I also think realistic expectations are either Capela or Claxton but i'm not sure Nets would do it just like that. Other options are Turner and Ayton but i believe Pacers and Suns don't want to deal with Mavs.

I have a feeling the Pacers and Suns make a deal to swap centers without the Mavs being involved.

[Mavrelous]

Vogel and Borrego signed with other teams, I think they'll ask Luka to coach also.

[BeiBeau]

I saw this trade idea somewhere. Would you trade: THJ+10 for Capela+15?

And if you would do that trade would you still draft Lively at 15? Can Lively play the 4?

It’s solid. They probably won’t want THJ though. They probably ask for Bullock and Dallas compromises by sending Bertans. That way they can get off of most of his money next year.

[Mike lorenzo]

traditional centers don't fit into JKidd's defensive system...last year at our best, even DFS closed games...Maxi, the bet on Wood, Powell playing a ton of minutes...I think that gives us a clue ..from what would be an "ideal fit"...Gobert,Capella these guys don't fit at all unless we're going to radically change the style and I can't see us sending #10 because of a bad fit..at least that's it I hope... Claxton/Turner would be perfect... Although perhaps unattainable

[Teffer10]

traditional centers don't fit into JKidd's defensive system...last year at our best, even DFS closed games...Maxi, the bet on Wood, Powell playing a ton of minutes...I think that gives us a clue ..from what would be an "ideal fit"...Gobert,Capella these guys don't fit at all unless we're going to radically change the style and I can't see us sending #10 because of a bad fit..at least that's it I hope... Claxton/Turner would be perfect... Although perhaps unattainable

That's why Lively is the perfect pick for us.
Yes, he is raw but certainly gives us what we desperately need, and I think he is further along than many are saying.
I say we trade back a few picks and take him in the 13-16 range where he will probably go and maybe we pick up a 2nd rounder.
Maybe Atlanta would trade 15/46 for 10 and we take Lively and Vukcevic.

I honestly think Mavs will offer up #10/THJ/2027 FRP for Turner.
I certainly don't include Hardy in that deal unless you take out the #10 pick.

[Teffer10]

I saw this trade idea somewhere. Would you trade: THJ+10 for Capela+15?

And if you would do that trade would you still draft Lively at 15? Can Lively play the 4?

Yep...you definitely take Lively in that scenario.
Lively is the perfect 5 in today's NBA and he is the guy I think we should take no matter where we draft.

I suggested that exact trade you mentioned and that would be a smart move imo because it gives us a win-now center along with the center of our future.

I don't know if you play both of them together much, but with either of them you can get by with a smaller DFS sized PF.