Luka traded to the Lakers

[Dirk2Doncic]

With all due respect but I trust more and give more credits to draft experts who consider Flagg a generational prospect.
Anything could happen but he has all the talent and potential of this world to be a franchise player.

Scotty Pippen was not a franchise player. That's the comp I heard from Jay Bilas.

Fans get googly eyed, put their hopes in dreams in unproven prospects.

IMO, Flagg's floor is a good NBA player and probably better than that. There is an enormous gap between that though and a true franchise player in my view. Will he ever be an elite closer on offense at the NBA level? Pippen wasn't.

HOF player is not equal to franchise player, not really even in the same basketball universe.

According to Givony and Vecenie is a can't-miss prospect, the best all-around talent in years coming from the college and fwiw from what I saw he actually looks like the next big thing.
That's just one comparison, the most common ones are with Tatum, Kawhi, but Scottie was a hell of a player tho, one of the most impactful of his time.
Who knows if he'll live up to his hype but his ceiling is definitely franchise player.

Sometimes it feels like some fans are so mad at mr. Harrison that they downplay Flagg talent by default just because they hate the GM, more or less the same mistake that some skeptical Americans did when Luka entered the league, but this time coming from former or badly pissed off Mavs fans.
I'm still badly mad too at that trade and will hate Harrison (and Silver) forever, but gosh it's time to move on, there is no point in dwelling on the past, at least we got something to want to cheer for again.

In Italy we use to say that it makes no sense for the husband to cut his dick off just to spite his wife.

Do you think every prospect labeled as a generational talent meets or exceeds projections?

I trust Jay Bilas basketball brain. The Bilas comp that heard from his mouth is Pippen. There are no guarantees though that Flagg ever reaches that level.

It was very clear to me that Bilas did not want to project him higher than that, and there are basketball reasons for that.

Pippen was a guy you build with, not a guy you build around, IMO. There is a big difference, in my mind.

And I put Tatum in the category of player you build with, not a guy you build around, I don't view him as a franchise player.

I'll add, I don't trust the basketball IQ of the Dallas Mavericks FO aside from Jason Kidd. As long as that is the case, there is no clean break from the past.

Could Flagg develop into a franchise player? Possibly. We shall see. Again, googly eyed fans put their hopes and dreams in prospects of all stripes in every sport, sometimes it pans out and sometimes it doesn't. But I've known that long before I ever heard the name Luka Doncic.

[ACMFFL]

Eh, that's not what I'm doing. Do you think every player labeled as a generational talent meets or exceeds projections?

I trust Jay Bilas basketball brain. The Bilas comp that heard from his mouth is Pippen. There are no guarantees though that Flagg ever reaches that level.

It was very clear to me that Bilas did not want to project him higher than that, and there are basketball reasons for that.

Pippen was a guy you build with, not a guy you build around, IMO. There is a big difference, in my mind.

And I put Tatum in the category of player you build with, not a guy you build around, I don't view him as a franchise player.

I'll add, I don't trust the basketball IQ of the Dallas Mavericks FO aside from Jason Kidd. As long as that is the case, there is no clean break from the past.

Could Flagg develop into a franchise player? Possibly. We shall see. Again, googly eyed fans put their hopes in dreams in prospects of all stripes in every sport, sometimes it pans out and sometimes it doesn't. But I've known that long before I ever heard the name Luka Doncic.

Honestly that's what it looks like, man..

Cool, you chose to trust one, and only one source, good for you, I don't think that's the right way to evaluate prospects tho. Let's not act like every #1 pick is labeled as generational, Zion was the last prospect who had similar hype to Cooper and he didn't pan out just because of his terrible attitude.

C'mon man, ofc Tatum is a franchise player, I mean they are looking to tank cause he's out for the season.
Again that's your choice but perennial All-NBA 1st team (4x in a row..) is definitely franchise player material.

And now tell me, what are we supposed to do as Mavs fans? Keep crying over Luka not being here? I still badly miss him, but we have to move on, we don't have the power to bring him back with our tears.. Ofc legit fans do hope that Flagg meets expectations, I mean what are we even talking about? And these "dreams" aren't far fetched at all according to most reliable draft analysts.

Ofc there is no guaranteed, but what about to enjoy the ride and see what happens without any bias?
I don't even care if he'll live up to this hype, a homegrown star is all this fanbase needs at this stage.

I don't trust them too but I love the Mavs more than I hate the FO and honestly it has been a great offseason so far, I'm kind of excited about the next season.
I just think some people aren't ready to honestly judge anything the Mavs do or touch. And I think that's unfair to our players.

[Archx]

Comparing Flagg to Luka is not fair to Flagg. I know Kidd wants him to be point forward and be a playmaker or something similar but expectations are getting out of hand. You're literally comparing an 18/19yo rookie to the best playmaker of the last 5 years and basically the best point forward of the last 5 years. Flagg will have a stacked team and should ease his development a bit, but still... it will be insanely difficult for him to match anything we've seen from Luka so far.

If you click on the link, you can see Luka is Nr1 in shot quality % added to teammates in the last 5 years. He's 3rd in SQ PTS Added even though his team mates shot 3500 FG's less than Trae's team mates. People say Jokic is the best playmaker in the league but in reality doesn't even come close to Luka.

[Teffer10]

Comparing Flagg to Luka is not fair to Flagg. I know Kidd wants him to be point forward and be a playmaker or something similar but expectations are getting out of hand. You're literally comparing an 18/19yo rookie to the best playmaker of the last 5 years and basically the best point forward of the last 5 years. Flagg will have a stacked team and should ease his development a bit, but still... it will be insanely difficult for him to match anything we've seen from Luka so far.

If you click on the link, you can see Luka is Nr1 in shot quality % added to teammates in the last 5 years. He's 3rd in SQ PTS Added even though his team mates shot 3500 FG's less than Trae's team mates. People say Jokic is the best in the league but in reality doesn't even come close to Luka.

Kidd might be in a position where he doesn't have much choice but to use Flagg as a primary creator in certain lineups.
I don't like anything about DLo's game and if he doesn't come through as a viable temporary replacement for Kyrie, then there aren't a lot of options and Flagg might be the best available.

As a fan I see nothing but positive coming from next season. This roster could become something special and there is a good chance we could compete for a championship if all goes well. However, if it doesn't go well there is an equal chance imo that it becomes a total disaster and we have our pick and some nice trade assets to start the rebuild process around Flagg, Lively and Christie.
I'm obviously hoping for the former, but at least we the latter as a potential fallback situation that wouldn't be the end of the world imo.

[Archx]

Kidd might be in a position where he doesn't have much choice but to use Flagg as a primary creator in certain lineups.
I don't like anything about DLo's game and if he doesn't come through as a viable temporary replacement for Kyrie, then there aren't a lot of options and Flagg might be the best available.

That is totally fair. I'm just pointing out some stuff Mavs fans from various forums think. And i have seen some of that here as well. I just think pressuring Flagg to be almost 1st team all nba right from the start is not realistic at all. Might not even get there after 3 or 4 years. But yeah, the core of Flagg, Lively, PJ, or even Christie if he can make the next step or two, etc... sounds exciting. Mavs have a weird team of youngsters that need minutes to develop and veterans that needs minutes because they want to compete for a ring.

Like you said, it could be a disaster or a total success. This is such a deep team i legit expect them to get to at least WCF. (if healthy)

[ACMFFL]

Kidd might be in a position where he doesn't have much choice but to use Flagg as a primary creator in certain lineups.
I don't like anything about DLo's game and if he doesn't come through as a viable temporary replacement for Kyrie, then there aren't a lot of options and Flagg might be the best available.

That is totally fair. I'm just pointing out some stuff Mavs fans from various forums think. And i have seen some of that here as well. I just think pressuring Flagg to be almost 1st team all nba right from the start is not realistic at all. Might not even get there after 3 or 4 years. But yeah, the core of Flagg, Lively, PJ, or even Christie if he can make the next step or two, etc... sounds exciting. Mavs have a weird team of youngsters that need minutes to develop and veterans that needs minutes because they want to compete for a ring.

Like you said, it could be a disaster or a total success. This is such a deep team i legit expect them to get to at least WCF. (if healthy)

Who's comparing Flagg to Luka on this forum..?
Even on the other Mavs board there isn't a single soul who expects him to be 1st all team from the start.

[41Dirk41]

Unfortunately we are commited on street clothes & Irving timeline for some reason (no enough picks in the Doncic trade), this year could be a disaster... But ehy, if this means bye bye Harrison&Kidd so it's ok for me.

Best case scenario second round PO with a lucky match up and a miraculous healthy season.

[Teffer10]

Unfortunately we are commited on street clothes & Irving timeline for some reason (no enough picks in the Doncic trade), this year could be a disaster... But ehy, if this means bye bye Harrison&Kidd so it's ok for me.

Best case scenario second round PO with a lucky match up and a miraculous healthy season.

That is why I think we are setup pretty well for if this thing turns into a disaster.
If we are 8 seed or below by TDL, we should abort the "win-now" strategy and start thinking about a core of Flagg/Lively/Christie using what would be a fairly high draft pick, and any young assets and draft capital in trading Klay, Kyrie, AD, PJ, Gafford, DLo and BWill.

If managed properly, this thing could turn out well.
My biggest concern is that we will be in that 6-8 seed situation at TDL and our best trade capital will be wasted on 30 something guys trying to get us to championship level.

I don't expect a lot out of Flagg, but I personally don't see us being championship caliber unless he plays beyond expectations.

[Teffer10]

Kidd might be in a position where he doesn't have much choice but to use Flagg as a primary creator in certain lineups.
I don't like anything about DLo's game and if he doesn't come through as a viable temporary replacement for Kyrie, then there aren't a lot of options and Flagg might be the best available.

That is totally fair. I'm just pointing out some stuff Mavs fans from various forums think. And i have seen some of that here as well. I just think pressuring Flagg to be almost 1st team all nba right from the start is not realistic at all. Might not even get there after 3 or 4 years. But yeah, the core of Flagg, Lively, PJ, or even Christie if he can make the next step or two, etc... sounds exciting. Mavs have a weird team of youngsters that need minutes to develop and veterans that needs minutes because they want to compete for a ring.

Like you said, it could be a disaster or a total success. This is such a deep team i legit expect them to get to at least WCF. (if healthy)

I'm not sure which is more unrealistic expectations.

Flagg being a superstar as a rookie.
Or
AD giving us more than 50 games during RS and making it through 1 series if we make the POs.

I wish I could say that is sarcasm, but that is a serious feeling I have.

[Archx]

Kidd might be in a position where he doesn't have much choice but to use Flagg as a primary creator in certain lineups.
I don't like anything about DLo's game and if he doesn't come through as a viable temporary replacement for Kyrie, then there aren't a lot of options and Flagg might be the best available.

That is totally fair. I'm just pointing out some stuff Mavs fans from various forums think. And i have seen some of that here as well. I just think pressuring Flagg to be almost 1st team all nba right from the start is not realistic at all. Might not even get there after 3 or 4 years. But yeah, the core of Flagg, Lively, PJ, or even Christie if he can make the next step or two, etc... sounds exciting. Mavs have a weird team of youngsters that need minutes to develop and veterans that needs minutes because they want to compete for a ring.

Like you said, it could be a disaster or a total success. This is such a deep team i legit expect them to get to at least WCF. (if healthy)

Who's comparing Flagg to Luka on this forum..?
Even on the other Mavs board there isn't a single soul who expects him to be 1st all team from the start.

I said (almost). You need to read more around the internet to fully understand i guess. But there are fans saying he'll be better maybe even from day 1.

I'm not sure which is more unrealistic expectations.

Flagg being a superstar as a rookie.
Or
AD giving us more than 50 games during RS and making it through 1 series if we make the POs.

Heh... AD giving Mavs more than 50 games would be quite amazing. But then there are still playoffs where you have to play hard and i'm not sure how his body will hold up. It's simply one of those, i'll believe it when i see it, moments.

[ACMFFL]

I said (almost). You need to read more around the internet to fully understand i guess. But there are fans saying he'll be better maybe even from day 1.

I wouldn't attach much importance to what "fans" say on toxic places like Mavs reddit and twitter. I mean on the other hand there are fans who downplay Flagg talent just because..nah mate, I'm good with RealGM and the other Mavs forum.
No sane fan expects him to be as good as Luka from the start.

[Archx]

I said (almost). You need to read more around the internet to fully understand i guess. But there are fans saying he'll be better maybe even from day 1.

I wouldn't attach much importance to what "fans" say on toxic places like Mavs reddit and twitter. I mean on the other hand there are fans who downplay Flagg talent just because..nah mate, I'm good with RealGM and the other Mavs forum.
No sane fan expects him to be as good as Luka from the start.

I think twitter is way more toxic than reddit, because there are some great info's that you can get from reddit and people legit have good discussions. But yeah, sometimes people take it a bit too far.

[Mavrelous]

No one can pretend to know what Cooper will eventually be, but given he is ranked very close to, but below AD as a prospect, and AD, even 14 years in, isn't close to Luka in only half the time, the odds of him being better than Luka ever are slim, also, Luka has the best age 20 and 21 seasons of all time, so, that's a very high bar to jump.
No player is expected to have ROY, followed by 5 1st team all NBA, 2 WCF and a Finals appearance in their 1st 7 years, while withstanding some terrible injury luck to his teammates, even for Wembenyama that'd be an above expectation start.

[Dirk2Doncic]

No one can pretend to know what Cooper will eventually be, but given he is ranked very close to, but below AD as a prospect, and AD, even 14 years in, isn't close to Luka in only half the time, the odds of him being better than Luka ever are slim, also, Luka has the best age 20 and 21 seasons of all time, so, that's a very high bar to jump.
No player is expected to have ROY, followed by 5 1st team all NBA, 2 WCF and a Finals appearance in their 1st 7 years, while withstanding some terrible injury luck to his teammates, even for Wembenyama that'd be an above expectation start.

Well stated.

I lot of people can't fully discern what NIco Harrison rejected.

It's so so so difficult to find and then see prospect raw materials develop into a TRUE franchise player, to fill in the holes in their game that have kept many great players from getting over the Finals hump. Took Dirk half his career, had to get physically stronger, develop that HISTORICALLY GREAT mid range post up game, and to add cold blooded killer to his game which is what your closer has to be. Lebron in 2011 had holes in his game... that is NORMAL. Dirk in 2006/2007 had holes in his game... that is NORMAL.

Superstar and franchise player get thrown around WAY TOO LOOSELY these days.

Luka's offensive skillset is not like anything I have ever seen, and probably nothing like the league has ever seen. Many underestimate the cold blooded killer part of his game and it's impact. He was doing Larry Legend things in the playoffs, you can't teach it, it's rare, you fight with everything you got to try to get it, and if you have it you understand the treasure you have. It's over now though, and over for Luka for now at least.. Lakers have no future it appears.

[Heezzi]

Luka's offensive skillset is not like anything I have ever seen, and probably nothing like the league has ever seen. Many underestimate the cold blooded killer part of his game and it's impact. He was doing Larry Legend things in the playoffs, you can't teach it, it's rare, you fight with everything you got to try to get it, and if you have it you understand the treasure you have. It's over now though, and over for Luka for now at least.. Lakers have no future it appears.

That's cap. We literally saw that with Harden. If he was such a cold blooded killer he would have been improving himself in the off season and we saw him not. They were on his ass about cardio since he was drafted and it took him being traded and publicly fat shamed for him to actually lose weight.

Face it. He's more Shaq than Kobe.

[arkuo]

No one can pretend to know what Cooper will eventually be, but given he is ranked very close to, but below AD as a prospect, and AD, even 14 years in, isn't close to Luka in only half the time, the odds of him being better than Luka ever are slim, also, Luka has the best age 20 and 21 seasons of all time, so, that's a very high bar to jump.
No player is expected to have ROY, followed by 5 1st team all NBA, 2 WCF and a Finals appearance in their 1st 7 years, while withstanding some terrible injury luck to his teammates, even for Wembenyama that'd be an above expectation start.

The optics of Luka taking his conditioning seriously, losing weight and eating well after getting traded isn't helping that cause. It's still F Nico for getting a subpar return but Luka only taking it seriously now says something too. It's very similar to Nash's back going out then eventually he wins an MVP award right after not getting re-signed. These events are usually wake up calls to players.

[Jax_23]

It's good for the fans that they got Cooper Flagg but...It's annoying to me that Dumb & Dumber -- Dumont and Nico Harrison -- got bailed out by this 1% chance. They had nothing to do with this good fortune, no skill involved, just pure dumb luck. Yet Nico Harrison showing his dumb mug on tv like all is forgiven. Bro, you did NOTHING, a player just fell into your lap.

It's that, or this sh** is rigged -- which I don't even know at this point. The fact that the Mavs can land the #1 pick with like a 1% chance, combined with an unthinkable unimaginable Luka trade, combined with worsening NBA ratings at the time of the trade -- something doesn't smell right.

And now we got NBA players betting on games?

Adam Silver better protect the Integrity of this league. Not interested in WWE.

Nico Harrison still deserves to be ran out of town. It sucks for Cooper that has to play for a trash front office.