From TNT: Mavs interested with Kidd

[DDansby123]

IMO, now that other teams are openly trading players, we need to get on that. Stop chasing after an old PG, in a position that is not our biggest problem and go after someone the likes of Mike Miller, or Artest, or Maggette without breaking up Dirk-Josh-Devin. Anyone else on the Mavs is expendable but those are our 3 key pieces for now and the future.

What exactly is our biggest problem? Because the guys you mentioned don't exactly have the same strengths and weaknesses.

If you're intent on building around Devin, Josh, and Dirk, you have to figure out what type of player fits best around them. I look at those three, and I see one commonality: all are best in isolation sets. Do you add more one-on-one guys to the mix, or start looking for guys who can actually facilitate something offensively other than their own shots? And if you look for somebody like that, what about the defense at the SG spot?

We're back to square one with this debate. Personally, I look at our big 3 and find they don't really compare all that favorably to the best players on other contending teams. Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan; Nash, Marion, and Stoudemire; Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum; Paul, West, and Peja; Boozer, Williams, and Okur. How many of those groups are we actually better than? Only two are markedly worse (NOH and Utah), but they both have stellar PG play that can, at times, make up for their lack of starpower. I'm telling you, I see so much more versatility and all-around play in those groups than I see in ours, and that's a huge issue as far as I'm concerned.

[lakers2008]

I think you guys are good to go. Same core players... It's just that not all teams can push the same energy years after years to win it all... Look at the Miami Heat... I honestly think that Wade should stop doing commercials and focus in playing basketball... An Elite team that recently won the Championship doesn't fall like how they are... Every great dynasty falls slowly and gradually, not like trash being dump into a big dumpster. They definitely got lucky taking 1 from you guys, but to solve their problem, Wade, you ain't cute, stop doing "I can act too" commercials and focus on basketball and locker room leadership skills for your basketball career sake.

Mavs, I don't think you guys need any body else, you guys are good to go, just recoup and kick some ass!

[JES12]

The Terry for AK47 trade talkes during the summer would have been a huge upgrade if it went down.

[sosafan70]

I wanna see what would happen with Larry Hughes on this team.

[JES12]

Especially points: 22, 21, 19, 18, 14, 13, 8, 6, 4

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=248

8 is completely BS (Kidd and Harris aren't comparable at all), but the others you mentioned were fairly accurate (though I disagree with Fish's arguments re: how good the team is right now).

Are we reading the same # 8?

I'm reading "8. Because there is simply no evidence that J-Kidd = Championship. Not even if LeBron says it is so."

And that may be his best point. If you thin that Kidd guarantees (or even improves our chances) at winning a championship, well, I guess there not much top talk about because I completely disagree with you and no amount of discussion can alter my views to the BS statment that is: "J-Kidd = Championship" because he and every team he has ever been on "= no championship." And don't throw the Dirk no champ thing out as 1) Kidd was not robbed by the refs in any and 2) Dirk is about 6 years younger than Kidd is now.

I can't think of any teams that has ever won a championship playing a 1-4 with a 35yo 1.

[DDansby123]

-= original quote snipped =-
Are we reading the same # 8?

I'm reading "8. Because there is simply no evidence that J-Kidd = Championship. Not even if LeBron says it is so."

I hate it when I'm wrong. I was reading (14), which argued that Kidd and Harris are already comparable...based on stats, apparently. My bad.

And that may be his best point. If you thin that Kidd guarantees (or even improves our chances) at winning a championship, well, I guess there not much top talk about because I completely disagree with you and no amount of discussion can alter my views to the BS statment that is: "J-Kidd = Championship" because he and every team he has ever been on "= no championship." And don't throw the Dirk no champ thing out as 1) Kidd was not robbed by the refs in any and 2) Dirk is about 6 years younger than Kidd is now.

Kidd certainly does NOT equal a championship, so you and Fish are absolutely right. Depending on the situation, I don't even know that Kidd would give us a better shot at a championship this year (that depends on the trade). My problem is with the arguments that Kidd wouldn't even help this team, and I see a lot of that seeping into the arguments here (and with Fish as well).

I can't think of any teams that has ever won a championship playing a 1-4 with a 35yo 1.

That may be true, but if you put a 35-year-old Kidd on the Spurs' or Lakers' championship teams, would they still win? I think so...and that tells me that it's more about the talent on the team than the age of the PG.

If we could get Kidd without giving up Harris, I'd be all for it. And I'm more on the fence about giving up Harris now than I was earlier in the season. Like I've said repeatedly, we need to either build around Harris as a scoring option or trade him for a true PG. We CAN win a championship with Harris as a scoring PG, but if we keep trying to make him into something he's not (a true, facilitating PG), I think his impact is more questionable. But if we focus on his strengths, I think he could easily become an 18/6 player offensively.

[Darren]

What the loves and disloves about the 3-way trade:

Incoming player: Jason Kidd, Malik Allen, Jamaal Magloire
Outgoing player: Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, Brandon Bass, Devean George, and at least one first round pick


C - Damp / Diop / Magloire
PF - Dirk / Juwan / Fazekas
SF - M.Allen/ Hassell / RAT(?)
SG - JoHo / EJ / Ager
PG - Kidd / JET / JJB

How does the scenario look like? It seems to be that we'd have too many PF. At 6-10, I just hope Malik Allen can play some SF to shoulder the responsibility to defend, rebound, and get some inside basketball. Though he doesn't possess big stats, he gets around 47.8% on the floor and 50% from the perimeter.

Jason Kidd is a more all-rounded pointguard. He gets 11pts, 10ass, 8reb. But the hessitation is that he shoots 37% from anywhere on court. He's got 3tos as well. But he's more experienced leader who is also clutch to make plays when needed.

After the trade, we would immediately become a better rebounding team. Better ball movement and leadership is expected. But can we really withstand the less than 40% from the field? We'd become thin at 3 or 2 unless we do start Allen at 3.

Are we a better team afterall? I have no idea. It seems to me that Devin is more effective on the floor. We're trading too much to acquire Kidd. The tie-breaker rest on Malik Allen. I have never heard about him. What kind of player is he?

[JES12]

That may be true, but if you put a 35-year-old Kidd on the Spurs' or Lakers' championship teams, would they still win? I think so...and that tells me that it's more about the talent on the team than the age of the PG.

I agree with everything you said, except the quoted section.

Last year's Spurs + Kidd - Parker = loss to the Suns (if Denver doesn't do it 1st).

On the Harris potential thing, if you take his min to 38 MPG (MPG that Kidd plays), he is a 17 & 7 guy, which is not to far from your 18 & 6 statment.

[JES12]

What the loves and disloves about the 3-way trade:

Incoming player: Jason Kidd, Malik Allen, Jamaal Magloire
Outgoing player: Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, Brandon Bass, Devean George, and at least one first round pick


C - Damp / Diop / Magloire
PF - Dirk / Juwan / Fazekas
SF - M.Allen/ Hassell / RAT(?)
SG - JoHo / EJ / Ager
PG - Kidd / JET / JJB

How does the scenario look like? It seems to be that we'd have too many PF. At 6-10, I just hope Malik Allen can play some SF to shoulder the responsibility to defend, rebound, and get some inside basketball. Though he doesn't possess big stats, he gets around 47.8% on the floor and 50% from the perimeter.

Jason Kidd is a more all-rounded pointguard. He gets 11pts, 10ass, 8reb. But the hessitation is that he shoots 37% from anywhere on court. He's got 3tos {3.71} as well. But he's more experienced leader who is also clutch to make plays when needed.

After the trade, we would immediately become a better rebounding team. Better ball movement and leadership is expected. But can we really withstand the less than 40% from the field? We'd become thin at 3 or 2 unless we do start Allen at 3.

Are we a better team afterall? I have no idea. It seems to me that Devin is more effective on the floor. We're trading too much to acquire Kidd. The tie-breaker rest on Malik Allen. I have never heard about him. What kind of player is he?

Fixed the TO thing. Also, if a 35yo Kidd comes to a team with another top PG (Terry), his min would go down to about 30. His stats (also assuming our rebounders all of a sudden start to suck, like the ones in NJ) would look like this: 9.0 PPG, 8.3 APG, 6.5 RPG, 1.27 SPG, 3.0 TO PG.

[DDansby123]

-= original quote snipped =-
Last year's Spurs + Kidd - Parker = loss to the Suns (if Denver doesn't do it 1st).

Maybe so, but I'm still remembering the Kidd who matched Nash point-for-point in that regular season game last year (40+ points for each). I still think it's possible with guys like Bowen and Finley that Kidd helps that team more than Parker. Who knows.

On the Harris potential thing, if you take his min to 38 MPG (MPG that Kidd plays), he is a 17 & 7 guy, which is not to far from your 18 & 6 statment.

But he doesn't play 38 MPG, in large part because he gets into foul trouble. Asking Harris to play shut-down defense on a superstar and also asking him to score 18 PPG (or even play 38 MPG) is a TALL order even for a superstar...and Harris isn't in the superstar category.

I'll readily admit, though, that I'm not great at extrapolating stats. I do know this, though: Harris is the only Maverick who I believe could score pretty much at will if we called his number and ran a pick-and-roll every time down the court. That's hard to come by, and I just wish we'd use him more as a scorer than as a pass-first PG. I know that's what Avery wants, but I fear this will come down to Avery having the type of players he wants or trading for them. Harris may get caught in the no-man's-land between what he truly is and what Avery needs him to be.

[JES12]

I think he does not play 38 MPG for the same reason Damp & Diop play less than 23 MPG (each other). Avery has to find time to play Terry, and to some extent, Barea. Terry's numbers have went down because we are playing him more at SG (rather than Harris at SG) and they both need to be "primary" PG, not "secondary PGs."

1st......9:30.....Foul 1
1st......4:30.....Terry enters game (Harris out)
2nd...10:45......Harris enters game (Howard out)
2nd.....9:27......Foul 2
2nd.....9:27.....Jones enters game (Harris out)
2nd.....6:56.....Harris entes game (Terry out)
2nd.....5:05......Foul 3
2nd.....5:05......Terry enters game
3rd...10:59.......Foul 4
3rd...10:59.......Terry enters game (Harris out)
4th.....8:51.......Harris enters game (Terry out)
4th.....7:57.......Terry enters game (Harris injured)

Harris played 13 min.

This is an example of one of his WORST fouling games. Now tell me that Harris would have sat out 14 min from the beginning of the 3rd to the 4th if we did not have a backup as good as Terry.

I think Harris, Terry, Diop, Dmapier all can easily avg 35+ min if their counterparts were not as good.

[JapanAir21]

The more this drags on, more I don't want it to happen. Harris is doing a fine job at PG, I see no reason to move him.

[realfung]

I think if they going trade J-Kidd, they want some youth with talent and veteran back....

[JES12]

I think if they going trade J-Kidd, they want some youth with talent and veteran back....

Barea + Dampier + Stackhouse fits that description.

But "youth with talent" does not mean a better, cheaper PG for the lesser one with a better reputation. Gutting your team to match salary is madness.

[HMFFL]

On Sunday, Dallas owner Mark Cuban sent an e-mail to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that quelled Jason Kidd trade talk.

"We don't expect to do anything at all," Cuban wrote. The response was not as colorful as the one he sent to the Sporting News: "Step away from your crack dealer."

Seventeen days remain until the NBA trade deadline, and the Kidd talk will heat up in cities such as Dallas, Denver, Cleveland and possibly in Los Angeles with the Lakers.

Link

[mrmreg]

No they don't always deny. They just don't lie about it. Sometimes they just don't comment.

When they deny a deal is in the works, we have the naive (like you, it seems) who keep chirping, saying the denial means nothing and they are actually in the middle of a deal. And then no deal occurs, just like they said!

Every time.

So unless you can point to a single solitary trade that they did, after saying they weren't working on such a trade, then there's no point in talking about a Kidd trade, cause they're not trying to even make one happen.

Naive chirping huh?