Lets Give Him His Due

[Pointguard01]

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Of course, but everyone seems to be acting as though the season's already over.

Well since we have had the idea that winning the championship and nothing more is good enough, the fact that we are fighting to make the playoffs and dont even look to have a team that is good enough to get out of the first round, then yea, the season's looks like its close to being over. Of course, we could beat a New Orleans,Utah or Houston, but our chances against the Lake Show, Phoniex or San Antonio isnt nearly as promising.

[HMFFL]

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Well since we have had the idea that winning the championship and nothing more is good enough, the fact that we are fighting to make the playoffs and dont even look to have a team that is good enough to get out of the first round, then yea, the season's looks like its close to being over. Of course, we could beat a New Orleans,Utah or Houston, but our chances against the Lake Show, Phoniex or San Antonio isnt nearly as promising.

Which are the same teams that the entire league fears. It looks like Phoenix has things back on track after winning 6 straight, but both Phoenix and the Lakers did a better job of filling roster needs. Phoenix had a much better offseason, the Lakers trading for Pau Gasol was obviously huge and the Spurs continue to fill holes ever so slightly.

IMO, due to our lack of depth we deserve to be behind those three teams. It's up to this team to get things together and find away to make up for the lack of talent compared to some of our opponents.

[Teffer10]

Its not about Kidd or Harris as much as it is about Dirk, Stack, Howard, and Terry and the power they have collectively on this team. A good pg will only cramp their playing styles. Nash wasn't even close to MVP material when he was here. There is no pg that will get through that force field.

Those 4 are not enough to get it done and that is the real problem with this team imo.

[ppp000]

Well I was a big Harris supporter when he was here but supported the trade b/c I thought that our offense was too methodical and hard on the players, which I STILL think, but I also foolishly thought that Avery would re-wire his offense to fit Kidd INSTEAD of forcing Kidd into our system. At the same time, the players on this team are also not going to bring out the best in a pure point.
When I watch us against the bad teams, I see the ball movement, the easy shots, the fast break points, the large number of assists that I thought the trade would bring. But then against the good teams, not only do we go back to the ISO system, but now we are WORSE b/c we don't have as many scoring options (taking away Devin and his 14+ ppg).

Perhaps being pessimistic but nothing from the last two playoffs (Miami, GS) showed me that the pre-Kidd team would do anything, BUT it seems like we had a better chance with Devin. But as long as we have Avery the over-coacher leading the team, I still maintain we would not have/are still not going to do anything in the postseason.

[Teddy KGB]

Hard though this is to admit, I was wrong and JES was right.

[JES12]

Hard though this is to admit, I was wrong and JES was right.

Do you still want to continue the bet? I'm still hoping I lose as I want to see this team prove me wrong.

[Teddy KGB]

yeah, i took the bet so i'm not gonna back out. we'll see how things go, I would love it for me to win the bet tho

[JES12]

yeah, i took the bet so i'm not gonna back out. we'll see how things go, I would love it for me to win the bet tho

I'll bet you would! Anyways, I'm willing to lose that bet to see this team win the in the playoffs!

[Teffer10]

Well I was a big Harris supporter when he was here but supported the trade b/c I thought that our offense was too methodical and hard on the players, which I STILL think, but I also foolishly thought that Avery would re-wire his offense to fit Kidd INSTEAD of forcing Kidd into our system. At the same time, the players on this team are also not going to bring out the best in a pure point.
When I watch us against the bad teams, I see the ball movement, the easy shots, the fast break points, the large number of assists that I thought the trade would bring. But then against the good teams, not only do we go back to the ISO system, but now we are WORSE b/c we don't have as many scoring options (taking away Devin and his 14+ ppg).

Perhaps being pessimistic but nothing from the last two playoffs (Miami, GS) showed me that the pre-Kidd team would do anything, BUT it seems like we had a better chance with Devin. But as long as we have Avery the over-coacher leading the team, I still maintain we would not have/are still not going to do anything in the postseason.

Well put and I completely agree!!!

[Darren]

Well, do you mean give Kidd some time?

I think the problem is not sorely on Kidd but Kidd vs. the system.

In Avery system, everything is too predictable. That's why elite teams can stop us since the team. We even take away the X-factors in Devin Harris and Desagana Diop.

But I can see a good pointguard transforming anyone on court into a threat. When SAS is playing without Tim Duncan, they finds a way to look for Oberto, Barry, Barry or someone to hurt you. The essential item is to make the game unpredictable.

I think Damp, Bass, JET, Lue, Allen, Wright can all be X-factor. We should not severely count on anyone to success.

To make everyone on court a threat on every possession is the key to take our game to next level. I still believe Kidd's capable to do it. But I wonder if Avery can trust anything unpredictable.

That's the real problem I perceived. Avery took away Kidd's strength.

[DDansby123]

Some good points in this thread.

I don't think it's the better teams that are forcing us back to the iso style, it's Avery and the team choosing to focus on that (IMO). They work on motion/picks/etc. during practices and "easy" games but put it back on the shelf in the tough games against playoff opponents. (I could be wrong on this, but that's what it looks like to me.) In other words, they use it when they can play poorly and win, but when they need to play their best, they go back to what's familiar (the iso).

It's kind of like a fastball pitcher trying to develop a changeup. If his team's up 7 runs, he may break out that new changeup every once in awhile...work it into the repertoire. But if it's 3-2 with the bases juiced, he's going with the fastball.

I just hope the Mavs have enough time and patience to work it into "game shape" by the playoffs. If not, the Kidd deal might look ugly this season.

[daoneandonly]

How can we possibly not rebuild if we miss the playoffs or lose in the first round (i prefer the former just missing it all togetehr then we can at least keep our pick), i cant believe im syaing this, but id do the darren deal, Aldridge Lafrenz and their pick for dirk if we did decide to rebuild (it made me sick just suggesting a dirk trade)

[JES12]

id do the darren deal, Aldridge Lafrenz and their pick for dirk if we did decide to rebuild

Portland would not do that deal. Portland is in a good spot salary wise, age-wise and talent wise. Aldridge is a big part of that and well on his way to having a Rasheed Wallace type career.

Adding a 29 or 30 yo Dirk is not in their plans.

[Rand10]

How can we possibly not rebuild if we miss the playoffs or lose in the first round (i prefer the former just missing it all togetehr then we can at least keep our pick), i cant believe im syaing this, but id do the darren deal, Aldridge Lafrenz and their pick for dirk if we did decide to rebuild (it made me sick just suggesting a dirk trade)

Dirk is the best player our franchise has ever had and he is in his prime. I don't think it matters what happens this postseason (even if we don't get there), we have to try and win a title with him. At least give them a full training camp and season with Kidd at the point to find out.

[Darren]

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Portland would not do that deal. Portland is in a good spot salary wise, age-wise and talent wise. Aldridge is a big part of that and well on his way to having a Rasheed Wallace type career.

Adding a 29 or 30 yo Dirk is not in their plans.

Oden and LMA are post players, they limit each others' space on court together. Instead, Dirk creates space. He forces double team and takes opponent big away the paint. Dirk can provide more balanced inside-outside game. He can take over games.

Stars attract each other. I am sure they have better chance to land free agent PG Calderon and lobby reluctant-to-sign-with-Blazers Fernandez, the European MVP, to sign his rookie contract.

Oden-Dirk-Fernandez-Roy-Calderon with a deep bench is as deadly as New Orleans. They have multiple players capable to step up. They get more fouls drawn and open looks on perimeter. They also get MVP caliber player with NBA Final experience. Dirk work ethnics would be a very good example to the young players there.

If the price is merely giving up LMA, expiring, #13 pick (of a not-so-deep draft), and a couple of late firsts. It should be right for them, I believe.

[JES12]

Oden and LMA are post players, they limit each others' space on court together. Instead, Dirk creates space. He forces double team and takes opponent big away the paint. Dirk can provide more balanced inside-outside game. He can take over games.

Um, NO!

Apparently you have never seen LA play! LA is another Sheed. Similar to Dirk in the fact that they play pretty damn well far away from the basket (though he has not developed a 3 pt shot). Oden is post....LA is Dirk-like. The inside guy is Pryzbilla and when LA is inside it is pretty parallel to Dirk playing center with our Bass (their Frye) at the PF spot. Aldride had the ability to play inside in stretches, but not as a center.

Oden-Dirk-Fernandez-Roy-Calderon with a deep bench is as deadly as New Orleans.

Outlaw and Webster starts over Fernandez 7 days a week...unless your in Europe.

If the price is merely giving up LMA, expiring, #13 pick (of a not-so-deep draft), and a couple of late firsts. It should be right for them, I believe.

if you think they will add a 13th pick + other picks to get Dirk when they already have a young up & coming player in Aldridge in the same age range as all their other stars.



Oden/Aldridge/Outlaw/Roy is their core next year. If they can upgrade Blake, Rodriguez & Jack to a better young PG, they would be set for quite some time.

C - Oden (20yo)
PF - Aldridge (22yo)
SF - Outlaw (23yo)
SG - Roy (23yo)

Bench
C - Pryzbilla (29yo)
PF - Frye (25yo)
SF - Webster (21yo)
SG - Fernandez (23yo)
SG - James Jones (28yo)
PG - Blake/Jack/Rodriguez/Wafer (whoever is left after upgrading starter)

I just don't see why they would trade for Dirk when their core is 20-23 yo.

[Darren]

[quote="JES12"][/quote]

Wow, you've done some quite good research. But Travis Outlaw is not necessarily in their plan. He's TT. He chokes but not rebound nor play D.

I should admit I haven't watch much of their game. I know Oden-LMA-Roy is the core. They're 2 positions away. They're high on Fernandez. Webster is easy to replace. The point is where he should be, 1? 2? 3?

But LMA's an average defender. He's not as good at offense. And he's not someone who can take over the game. Dirk still hold his own.

Anywway, I see your point. they may want Kidd more than Dirk.

[JES12]

But Travis Outlaw is not necessarily in their plan. He's TT. He chokes but not rebound nor play D.

But LMA's an average defender. He's not as good at offense. And he's not someone who can take over the game. Dirk still hold his own.

Anywway, I see your point. they may want Kidd more than Dirk.

Outlaw is Mr. 4th quartrer, so choking and Outlaw in the same sentence should have a "not" in between it. And he is one of their best defenders as well. Is there room to upgrade? Sure, but I don't see why they would want to focus more on that than their PG spot.

As far as his Aldridge's defense, he is as good as, if not better than Dirk.
Dirk is still the better offensive player, but not enough to make up for their age difference. And I think they would rather have Calderon than Kidd. Maybe Blake, Fernandez and their mid 1st round pick in a S&T?