For those who are confused.

[JES12]

I still think at the time of the trade, Harris was a better player than Kidd; nothing is going to change that! After the trade last year, they both sucked (Harris became a jumpshooter more than a slasher). I know Harris schooled Iverson and broke Stucky's ankles the other day, but thus far this year, Kidd >> Harris. What bothers me is that Kidd was not much of an improvement last year (if any) and we gave the 10 year younger player and the picks to get the slight improvment rental. There is a ligitament (however you spell that) concern that we gave away picks for longer than Kidd will be here.

[commadoor 64]

Everyone keeps referencing the Gasol trade, but what people forget is that they gave their 19th pick (Crittenton), two future picks, a well picked 2nd rounder (Marc Gasol) and a huge expiring filler in Kwame.

This front office squanders our picks as evident in the Walker trade (2004), the Dampier trade (2005 & 2007), drafting Ager (2006) and the Kidd trade (2008 & 2010).

Our FO needs much better scouters and not be so lenient on our trading chips.

Thanks JES12 for actually letting people know it just wasn't a give away on our part either. Marc Gasol was scouted by us for a couple of years before we even drafted him, we held his rights for like two years before he even decided to come to the league.Now look at him pretty decent for a rookie, I can't believe people still think we just stole from Memphis.

Wrong. It was a steal regardless. Gasol is at the very least an All-Star quality player, that's at the least. Please don't tell me that a first round pick from the Lakers is going to amount to anything for the next 3-4 years much less two first rounders (they may prove to be what the Lakers themselves need, but not a rebuilding team who needs top prospects). Marc may prove to be a really good backup in the league, but when Mem is going for win now, please don't tell me that he will be a starter.

Crittendon is also a career backup. So with the 2 draft picks lets say they pick up 2 rotation players, that makes it a trade of a bunch of possible (not probable) role players and cap space for a definite All-Star. The fact that every other team was calling it a steal (Actually, I'm thinking the majority of Lakers fans would call it the same) says that Mem could have gotten a vastly better packaged deal for Gasol.

Seeing how you really know nothing about a team in your own division, allow me to enlighten....

First let me say, YOUR team could have had Gasol for any huge expiring you may have had at the time.

Gasol was a cancer for our team and WITH him we had back to back 22 win seasons, we were going NOWHERE with him and his 15million dollar pricetag.

2. Marc Gasol is a MUCH better defender than his brother and is almost averaging the same as his brother was for us, just at 13million dollars LESS than his brother. Good enough to be an instant starter and will probably end up being better in the long run than his brother and he's only 23. Marc Gasol's 3rd game ever(against that pesky GSW) he posted 27/16 with 3 blocks, not done by a rookie since some dude named Shaq did it in '93. He's posting better numbers than his brother did as a rookie and is a GREAT defensive player, something his brother is not.

3. Lakers pick this year allowed us to nab Darrell Arthur, already a starter also(he took Hakim Warrick's starting spot after posting in his 1st game against HOU 11/15/2) and is putting up better numbers than the #5 pick Kevin Love in similiar minutes, an absolute steal in this years draft.

4. Trading Gasol, we were much worse in the last half of the season, allowing us to be placed in a position to trade Love and Miller for OJ Mayo, who'll possibly end up being ROY this year.

5. Next year the Grizz will be almost 40 MILLION that's FORTY MILLION under the cap when the draft class of 2003 is coming into free agency, WITH Conley, Mayo, Gay, Arthur, and Gasol still on their rookie contract and extensions.

6. and we'll own the Lakers 1st round pick that same year as well.

Memphis is NOT in a win now mode we're in full blown rebuild. We're STARTING 3 rookies(Gasol, Mayo, Arthur), 1 soph(Conley), and 1 Jr.(Gay). Three of our starters can't even buy beer yet.
Our bench is Darko, Hakim Warrick, Quinton Ross, Kyle Lowry)


Not bad for one cancerous, overpaid, not quite an all-star, gave up on his team, player named Pau.
(No offense Laker fans, that's just the way Memphis fans see him)

Memphis already feels they have the better end of that trade, regardless of what anyone else in the league thinks.

ALSO, the Pau trade caused some panic moves throughout the league late last year, just before the deadline and although it created a superpower in the Lakers, it took down(or at least hobbled) 2 of the 3 teams that knocked US out of the playoffs, the only times we were ever in the playoffs, the other is failing due to old age at the moment.

Hope that helps you understand a team in your own division a little better.

[itsgotime]

Maybe you should understand that players on teams that suck most times put up unrealistic numbers. Marc Gasol will end up proving to be a good to great backup C in the league. That's a pretty valuable commodity, but not something to get overly excited about.

Michael Finley is a perfect example, he was great, an all star even before Dirk and Nash developed into a great duo. After that, he became what you now see on the Spurs, a bad starter, decent bench player who will help the team inconsistently. So much promise wasted because of capitalizing on his situation.

Next, you capitalized on a late 1st round pick, good for you, maybe he'll end up being all you hoped for. However, let's not pretend that winning a starting spot over Hakim Warrick is cause to celebrate.

Trading Gasol your team was in a position to win less than those 22 wins you were talking about previously in your rant? Can't have them both.

Finally, 40 million under the cap and the Lakers pick. 40 million under the cap with a bunch of what you deem as great players is gonna be needed come time to resign them or they walk. Gotta weigh that with every player you sign in the future with your cap space. Maybe you'll pull it off, maybe not but 40 million dollars under the cap is only 40 million dollars under the cap if you can't put it to good use.

The Lakers pick will be a great one that year won't it? At that point you'll want an early second rounder cause the contracts aren't guaranteed.

The trade was a steal, nothing you can say will change that. Good for your team that you were able to spin it so the fans were happy. Honestly that's what I wish our Mavs mgmt would do for us here in Dallas.

[commadoor 64]

There's nothing "rant"ful about it.

Having 3 rookies that have been in the top 5 almost every night they play is cause for excitement in Memphis.
Scoring leaders among rookies
#1, 6, 14

Rebounding leaders among rookies
# 1, 2, 11

Double double leaders among rookies
#1, 2

Effeciency among rookies
# 2, 5, 9

Steals
2, 5, 12

The second thing you need to learn is talking from your exit hole doesn't really impress anyone except maybe 12 yr. old little girls, who are impressed by virtually anything, even plastic babies that make burping sounds.

Maybe you ought to climb down from your throne and take a gander at the conference rankings this year before labeling teams as "sucking" and players as "unrealistic".

Our tandem of C(Gasol) and PF(Arthur)(less than 4mil paid) are putting up an average combined of 19/15 and nearly 3 blocks a game (as rookies, I remind you) compare that to Dampier/Howard 24/16 and 1.5 blocks per and those are veteren numbers(and at nearly 20 million to boot for the next few years)
Those numbers are against the same teams that you play.

[itsgotime]

Tisk tisk, come back to me when Memphis is ready to compete and you have maybe a few guys left from the current team. Empty numbers. Make the playoffs and then someone might be impressed with something you have.

Not sure how this turned out to be the Mavs vs the Griz. This was never about the Mavs, it was about someone trying to downplay the steal of a deal that the Lakers got. However infantile you want to try to make me out to be only goes to show your maturity, or lack thereof.

There's no use in going on because you're going to defend the trade as a homer and me from the outside looking in will view it how I do. Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion so we're at a standstill with nothing more to say, other than a sad attempt to make it personal.

[commadoor 64]

Nah, I don't go personal, it's all good.

And it certainly isn't Mavs v. Grizz.

I was simply trying to explain that the trade in question was not the rape case as it has been portrayed to be. Both the Lakers fans and the Grizz fans are happy with the deal, that's all I was trying to convey. It really doesn't matter either way, now does it.
Since this is your place, I'll respectfully disagree with your position and back away, I don't want to give Grizz fans a bad name or anything.
I just wandered in and saw a converstion that I felt I could be part of, that's all.

Peace and luck to you guys.

[JES12]

I wouldn't go putting down the Griz as to when they are ready to compete. If the season ended right now, Dallas (with a salary of $94,305,853) would likely get the #5 pick and the Griz ($49,384,248) would get #6.

[itsgotime]

I wouldn't go putting down the Griz as to when they are ready to compete. If the season ended right now, Dallas (with a salary of $94,305,853) would likely get the #5 pick and the Griz ($49,384,248) would get #6.

Again, this isn't about the Mavs vs. the Griz, but you're right, the Mavs suck too!