Devin Harris franchise player

[DDansby123]

Avery said his vision of Devin Harris was Kevin Johnson and/or a better defending Tony Parker.

And I totally agreed with that that and was stoned for agreeing with him.

But as long as Avery was doing his crazy iso **** and being a control freak, the powers that be (Cuban) would fail to see that Avery was the problem until after the trade went down.

That's exactly my point: what Avery says about Harris and what he did with him are on two opposite ends of the spectrum.

Harris has been a scorer from day one. I remember saying that Harris had to be treated like the star wings in this league (I was thinking McGrady at the time) instead of like a PG. You tell him to score, and the assists will come naturally off that penetration. The attention he draws will open up opportunities for teammates and basically create an offense (same goes for Dirk). You don't tell him to run the offense and then look for opportunities to score (same goes for Dirk); he won't (didn't) work that way.

I still say the biggest impediments to that were Howard and JET. It would take a coach with vision and guts to move Harris in front of those guys, and I don't think a young coach like Avery had enough of either to pull it off. Beyond that, I think management's love affair with Josh Howard, and their desire to win a championship now wouldn't have allowed it either. That's why I still say the deck was stacked against Harris here in Dallas.

[JD45]

I agree that Dirk was part of the problem with Harris.

I think Dirk always resented Harris because he thought Harris was expected to be Nash's replacement and led to Cuban not paying Nash enough to keep him. I remember Harris commenting that his first year was very difficult because Dirk was so tough on him. And Dirk's love fest with Kidd at the All Star game prior to the trade was sickening. And I never thought Dirk and Devin showed good chemistry on the court.

I think Dirk was a prime driver in the effort to trade Harris for Kidd. I still blame Cuban the most, but Dirk gets a share as well. But Dirk is dealing with the consequences now. He is getting late in his career and the Mavs have no realistic shot at a championship during his remaining time as a player.

[JD45]

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Avery-Johnson-Did-Not-Want-To-Trade-Devin-Harris-Blog-8617

I heard Avery interviewed soon after he was fired and while he didn't like the deal, he did clearly admit that he could have stopped it and did not. He also said his biggest mistake with the Mavs was "not giving Devin the ball" sooner.

Avery is going to be a great coach, but with the Mavs, he always blamed the players for his failures. Instead of improving and expanding his offensive scheme, he blamed the PGs, which included Devin. And I think after 2 years of essentially blaming offensive problems on "not having a real PG" it was impossible for him to block a trade that clearly brought in a "real PG." I also think he knew it was a bad deal, but couldn't really change his stance and take responsibility for the offense.

But he ultimately got lucky. He is gone now and the Mavs are still a marginal playoff team. So his image is being rehabilitated. He will get a new job next year and likely bring along a little humility that would have been useful with the Mavs.

[2011Champs]

Avery Johnson ruined Devin Harris in Dallas. He never had confidence here because he was Avery's robot. You have to leave players with his kind of skills the hell alone. I had hope for the Mavs before the Kidd trade but I felt like if Devin developed into the best player on the Mavs, they could be a championship team. He is the ONE guy on the Mavs that could stop a run by getting a basket or getting to the free throw line. To think we gave up 2 1st rounder with him is a little depressing.

All that being said, he is still on an average Net team where he can thrive and he has been destroying Steve Nash off the dribble since he was a rook. I am happy for Devin.

I am happy for Harris because he would always be behind Dirk,Howard and Terry and never get to show his skills in Dallas like he is in New Jersey.

[Teffer10]

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Avery-Johnson-Did-Not-Want-To-Trade-Devin-Harris-Blog-8617

I heard Avery interviewed soon after he was fired and while he didn't like the deal, he did clearly admit that he could have stopped it and did not. He also said his biggest mistake with the Mavs was "not giving Devin the ball" sooner.

Avery is going to be a great coach, but with the Mavs, he always blamed the players for his failures. Instead of improving and expanding his offensive scheme, he blamed the PGs, which included Devin. And I think after 2 years of essentially blaming offensive problems on "not having a real PG" it was impossible for him to block a trade that clearly brought in a "real PG." I also think he knew it was a bad deal, but couldn't really change his stance and take responsibility for the offense.

But he ultimately got lucky. He is gone now and the Mavs are still a marginal playoff team. So his image is being rehabilitated. He will get a new job next year and likely bring along a little humility that would have been useful with the Mavs.

JD - This plays into my thoughts of what happened. It seemed that Donnie and Cuban wanted a super-star caliber player and Dirk wanted Kidd. Avery basically had to go along because he was out numbered and probably knew he would lose Dirk's dedication if something wasn't done.

It sounds like you noticed a lot of the same body language on the court between Dirk and Devin that I noticed. It seemed pretty obvious to me they didn't get along.

I was all for the Mavs trading Harris for a super-star or star caliber player. I just thought they could have done better than Kidd and am still scratching my head as to why the draft picks had to be included in the deal.

[Teffer10]

I am happy for Harris because he would always be behind Dirk,Howard and Terry and never get to show his skills in Dallas like he is in New Jersey.[/quote]

Several of us were saying that before he got traded. This was Dirk, Terry, and Stack's team ever since Finley left. Harris was never going to get the opportunity to be respected by his teammates/coach that he deserved. Terry was the only one who seemed to at least try to help Devin along.
It is also my opinion that this had a lot to do with Howard's disappearing act in the 4th quarter. JHo always seemed to defer to the other 3 in the final quarter.

Harris and Howard's opportunities were severely limited as a Mav. It seems to be getting better for JHo this season.

[from_ro_to_dirk]

A little more food for thought about the notion that Dirk may have been part of the problem... Nash leaves Dallas at barely all-star status and wins the MVP the next 2 seasons. Harris goes from barely being starting material to a probable all-star the very next season.

Kidd was basically ineffective in the POs last season so I'm wondering if Dirk's style hamper's the full effectiveness of point guard play. Its beginning to seem that way to me. I'm sure some will argue the pick and pop with Nash though.

I disagree with you on the Nash part. Nash did not win the MVP because he left Dirk, his stats improved because the offense was even quicker than Nellie's and most importantly he had finishers around the rim. He had people like Amare, Marion, JJ who could all dunk it for the easy assists. His best year in Dallas assist-wise was his final one when the Mavs finally had some inside presense with Jamison and Antione shimmy guy (cant remember last name). Until then the Mavs were a jumpshooting team (and pretty much still were). But if Nash stayed and we kept Jamison, and JHo and Marquis continued to emerge, I could see Nash having topped 10 APG with us.

[Teffer10]

A little more food for thought about the notion that Dirk may have been part of the problem... Nash leaves Dallas at barely all-star status and wins the MVP the next 2 seasons. Harris goes from barely being starting material to a probable all-star the very next season.

Kidd was basically ineffective in the POs last season so I'm wondering if Dirk's style hamper's the full effectiveness of point guard play. Its beginning to seem that way to me. I'm sure some will argue the pick and pop with Nash though.

I disagree with you on the Nash part. Nash did not win the MVP because he left Dirk, his stats improved because the offense was even quicker than Nellie's and most importantly he had finishers around the rim. He had people like Amare, Marion, JJ who could all dunk it for the easy assists. His best year in Dallas assist-wise was his final one when the Mavs finally had some inside presense with Jamison and Antione shimmy guy (cant remember last name). Until then the Mavs were a jumpshooting team (and pretty much still were). But if Nash stayed and we kept Jamison, and JHo and Marquis continued to emerge, I could see Nash having topped 10 APG with us.

You are basically making my point that Dirk's style of play doesn't require an all-star caliber PG.
Players who excel above the rim and enjoy playing without the ball require a Kidd/Nash type of PG.

I think Dirk would be at his best with a serious consistent scoring threat who can get his shot, get to the basket, get to the line, and draw defensive attention away from Dirk.

[DDansby123]

^ Teffer, I'd tend to agree to with you, but here's an important point that makes our opinions moot: Dirk clearly seems to prefer a Kidd/Nash type PG.