Dirk on Kidd and Harris, Cuban gets a brain.

[Blind0188]

6
Marc's Quote
"I still love playing with Jason. He's done everything we've asked him to do. I just think he fits in better with what we're trying to do.

"We all knew Devin would be a great point guard someday, but I think it's good for him that he went somewhere new. He plays more free now. His shot looks better, and he's not looking over his shoulder at Avery every time for the play call. He's having a great season.

"I'm happy for Devin, but I don't really look back. We made a decision, and I think it was the right one."

Mavericks forward Dirk Nowitzki, revisiting the controversial February trade that sent Devin Harris and two first-round picks to the Nets for Jason Kidd.

Nowitzki was speaking before Kidd, who will turn 36 in March, went back to New Jersey on Friday night for the first time since the deal and wound up on the painful end of a vengeful drubbing, with Harris erupting for 41 points and 13 assists in a 121-97 Nets rout to reinforce the growing notion that New Jersey won this trade handily. It was Harris' second 40-point game in three weeks, and he is the league's No. 6 scorer at 23.8 points per game , underlining his status as a leading contender not only for the NBA's most improved award but also a spot on the Eastern Conference All-Star team.

Yet Harris is the first to acknowledge something important that second-guessers of the Dallas side tend to overlook: Nets coach Lawrence Frank changed his whole playbook for Harris and has established the 25-year-old as his No. 1 option -- ahead of even Vince Carter -- with a "dribble-drive" system that, in Harris' words, is "not your typical NBA offense."

Amassing such gaudy numbers in Dallas, in other words, almost certainly wouldn't have been possible.

The Nets spread the floor and invite Harris to attack the rim possession after possession, pinning much of their offensive success on Harris' penetration. The Mavericks will never know how much the move from Avery Johnson to Rick Carlisle might have liberated Harris, but it seems safe to suggest that staying in Dallas couldn't have been as liberating as the move to rebuilding Jersey.

"A new coach would have helped Devin, too," Nowitzki said. "He could have done a little more [under Carlisle]. But he and Vince take every shot [for the Nets], and it's not like that would have happened here."

The Mavericks, though, will continue to absorb heavy criticism for the trade -- given how nicely Harris is blossoming -- unless they can put more pieces around Nowitzki and Kidd to move back into the West's elite or reconfigure the roster in a meaningful way in coming months with the help of Kidd's monstrous expiring contract.

It's a misnomer to say the Mavs made the Harris-Kidd trade because they felt they were one piece away, even though they're being second-guessed on that basis. They saw Kidd as an answer to their leadership void at perhaps the most important position on the floor, as a locker-room energizer who could lift the growing gloom in what turned out to be Johnson's last days as Mavs coach after some painful playoff failures and as a guy who could rejuvenate a weary Nowitzki after his three-plus years of heavy lifting without complaint following the equally controversial departure of Steve Nash.

Mavs owner Mark Cuban was likewise hoping that reacquiring Kidd would bring some local buzz back to a team that had gone stale, as big deals in Detroit (Allen Iverson) and Phoenix (Jason Richardson) recently have done.

So Kidd deserves a full season back in Dallas before the full autopsy about what he did and didn't do.

"Jason has been great for us, on and off the floor," Nowitzki said. "One thing … I think he's even a better shooter than you [media] guys give him credit for."

The Mavs' miscalculations? Cuban certainly will have the opportunity in June (and subsequent Junes) to buy back first-round picks to replace the two he surrendered to the Nets, but dealing Harris for Kidd didn't change enough to prevent him from firing Johnson less than three months later. Mavs management, furthermore, sees quite clearly now that a group it felt needed a significant shakeup 10 months ago still needs at least one more quality newcomer via trade -- preferably a scoring threat at either shooting guard or center -- to nudge Dallas back into the West's elite.

That's the move, according to NBA front office sources, that Dallas is chasing hard now. Cuban, meanwhile, apparently is still determined to resist trade interest in Kidd and retain his expiring contract (worth $21.4 million this season) through the Feb. 19 trading deadline and into July 1, setting the Mavs up to pursue drastic changes as early as this summer or wait until the summer of 2010, when Nowitzki has the right to become a free agent as well.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... -081220-21

[DDansby123]

Nets coach Lawrence Frank changed his whole playbook for Harris and has established the 25-year-old as his No. 1 option [...] with a "dribble-drive" system that, in Harris' words, is "not your typical NBA offense."

I said some time ago that this situation with Harris reminds me a lot of what we experienced with Nash: PG moves into a system perfectly suited for him, becomes far better than he was in Dallas, and everyone starts claiming he could've been just as good (just as easily) in Dallas.

It ain't that easy.

I think we ought to end this debate by agreeing that, when it comes to the Harris deal, we gave up too much and didn't get enough back in return. No more, no less, IMO.

[2011Champs]

Nets coach Lawrence Frank changed his whole playbook for Harris and has established the 25-year-old as his No. 1 option [...] with a "dribble-drive" system that, in Harris' words, is "not your typical NBA offense."

I said some time ago that this situation with Harris reminds me a lot of what we experienced with Nash: PG moves into a system perfectly suited for him, becomes far better than he was in Dallas, and everyone starts claiming he could've been just as good (just as easily) in Dallas.

It ain't that easy.

I think we ought to end this debate by agreeing that, when it comes to the Harris deal, we gave up too much and didn't get enough back in return. No more, no less, IMO.

I agree here. All the talk before the trade was how we needed a pass first point guard so we got the best pass first point guard in the league. Both teams got what they needed in the trade. Dallas just got screwed with the two draft picks. Mavs could have had Ryan Anderson, George Hill, Nicolas Batum, Darrell Arthur, or Mario Chalmers with that pick. No telling who they will miss out on in 2010. Dallas needs to hold out when they make a trade and quit bending over. It should have been Harris+ filler for Kidd+ filler take it or leave it.

[JES12]

Two words: Damage Control

[Blowitupalready]

Dirk and Cuban can say whatever they want now.

Tha fact of the matter is that an NBA offense should be built around the best player on the team and the guy that can get you a basket or a foul whenever you need it. Sorry Dirk, but that player was Devin Harris and the is FO f'd itself by believing you were that guy even after Pat Riley showed the world in 2006 that you were not.

[DDansby123]

^ It sure seems that Dirk is one of the several reasons why Harris isn't here, and I just wonder if Cuban/Donnie will realize how they should've built this team from the beginning and start getting rid of the guys who prevented that from happening. I don't know if I'd put Dirk in that category, but I feel fairly sure that his status as "untouchable" is changing (or will by season's end).

[JD45]

This is just rationalization. Cuban made a horrible trade and Dirk was probably pushing for it as well. Now everyone in the NBA knows they screwed up. In retrospect, the Mavs should have traded Dirk.

[Blowitupalready]

The Mavs could have had Shaq, KG, or Kobe for Dirk and actually won something. I think back to before Shaq got dealt to Miami of a Mavs team with Shaq and Nash that could have been special.

[ppp000]

Right b/c KG and Kobe and Shaq all got a ring without elite players on their side. I mean, let's not mention the other allstars Pierce, Allen, Shaq, Wade on their teams...
Or the fact that Nash gets routinely destroyed by Tony Parker in the playoffs.

Dirk is not the only player who wants to play with Kidd. Kobe, Lebron all pushed PUBLICLY for one.
Blaming Dirk for Harris trade is plain stupid.

The difference between the Laker and Cavs FO is that they are not stupid enough to listen to their player's whims.

Tha fact of the matter is that an NBA offense should be built around the best player on the team and the guy that can get you a basket or a foul whenever you need it. Sorry Dirk, but that player was Devin Harris and the is FO f'd itself by believing you were that guy even after Pat Riley showed the world in 2006 that you were not.

Call me when Devin Harris gets his team to the finals and has a career like Dirk's. So b/c of a great half season, Devin is now the "best player on the Mavs" and the Mavs should have built a franchise around him. LOL. BTW, 2006 and 2007 also showed the world that Harris couldn't touch the ground of Wade and Baron Davis. And apparantly the mavs FO favored Terry more (which again is their stupidity). Harris would be our allstar second option if he were still here. But I guess it's just easier to dump the blame on the one guy out of two on this team who still tries hard every night out there and has carried the franchise farther than anyone before.

[DDansby123]

The funny thing is that before this trade, not one poster on this board called for the Mavs FO to do what New Jersey's done. And yet now, with the benefit of hindsight, that seems to be what everyone is blaming the FO for not doing. That's completely unrealistic. Hell, it was probably unrealistic to expect them to elevate him to the #2 offensive option, and even I suggested that pre-trade. What should be done and what can be reasonably expected are often totally different.

I just see so many revisionists on this board, it's ridiculous.

I supported trading Harris, because I didn't think he'd ever reach his potential in Dallas. I thought his value was higher to us in a trade than as a #4 scorer or pass-first PG. I supported trading him for Kidd because the FO waited too long to pull the trigger on deals for the SGs I wanted. I agreed with those who said we gave up too much in the deal. And as much as I wish I could say I was wrong about trading him, I don't believe that's true, since I still believe his ceiling in Dallas was much lower than it has proven to be elsewhere (because of all the aforementioned obstacles in his way).

You know, If you don't realize what you have, it's not worth as much to you as it is to someone who knows its true value. That was the case with Harris in Dallas. The Mavs FO showed me ZERO indication that they knew his true worth, and I doubt they ever would've realized it. That's why I still say trading him was the right move. It wouldn't have happened if I were owner/GM, but it was acceptable (ugh) given the circumstances.

Some people may disagree with that argument, and many will never get it. Hell, some don't even try. But oh well. We're all in agreement that our management royally screwed up. I just put the genesis of that error in a little different place than others do.

[JES12]

LOL....I have been calling for Harris to play over 35 MPG for several years....since before joining realgm. So, you can't say "not one poster on this board called for the Mavs FO to do what New Jersey's done." Last year, I said the Mavs FO should play him like Parker or Kevin Johnson (in MPG and role) with defense because that was his ability (not potential, but ability...last year). I called out Avery at the beginning of the year for his decisions such as not letting Harris loose.

I did see what we had and got in complete cursing arguments with that mmreg guy over Harris. I got in arguments with JHos Hydro (formally, ss_maverick) about trading Josh Howard before even thinking about trading Devin Harris. Hell, I even agrued with Cowology (Detroit Mod) about trading Harris & Terry for Billips because of him claiming Mavs definately do that because of statements he said you made. I saw what we had! And I can't even count how many times I said Harris was untradeable as long as Parker and Paul are in our division because he means a hell of a lot more to us than any other division in this league.

YDM said someone should check to make sure I did not have an anurism the day the trade happened and the sad thing was, he may have been joking, but I literally lost all respect for Cuban that day and about really did have an anurism. Felt like someone tied me down while burglurizing my home and taking everything that made me, me (or in this case, the Mavs, the Mavs).

I do agree with your management statements. Cuban has proven over and over again to be his own worst enemy. But it does nto stop with Cuban. Avery's coaching style had a HUGE role too. Donnie had some role, how much is on Donnie, I don't know, but he has some blame. I even blame Dirk to some extent after seeing him and Harris arguing.

[ppp000]

I wanted a trade for the Mavs, not for DHarris but felt it was necessary b/c the team didn't look right. The one constant I always felt was firing Avery, which should have been right after GS. I supported the Kidd trade for some of the reason already listed and b/c under Avery, our offense was too iso-heavy and there was no ball movement.

Afterwards, I admitted that Kidd was not the impact player I thought he would be (look at Billups in Denver..that was what the more optimistic had in mind about Kidd here) and even posted a thread saying that JES was "right"

The major problem most have had with FO was their failure to address the team's two most pressing needs: low post presence and quality SG. Still waiting on that.

I don't have a problem with people calling out the trade, since the Mavs obviously were trading to "win now" but can hardly get into the playoffs. So yes, it is an epic failure in that sense. I guess what I don't get is the revisionist "Devin was our best player, he should have been our franchise" drivel. I never saw those posts when Devin was here. MAYBE he would have blossomed into that, but saying that and trying to blame Dirk for the trade and for not winning a ring is ludicrous. Last I checked all the other "stars" didn't win anything either without help in the form of a legit allstar or two on their team, with a balanced roster. Not saying there aren't shortcomings in Dirk or the team, but there were and continue to be big holes before and after the trade.

I even blame Dirk to some extent after seeing him and Harris arguing.

So that means we should see Terry being traded too? Since I've seen him and Dirk argue before too, and with all this supposed power Dirk has, I'd guess by that rationale, the whole team would be different in a few weeks.

[JES12]

Harris should not have been our franchise guy. No more than Parker is the Spur's franchise guy. But Harris-Dirk were easily our two best and most important players.

Not only the arguing with Dirk, because Dirk and Terry grew close as did Howard with Harris. There were different clicks on our team.

[ppp000]

Harris should not have been our franchise guy. No more than Parker is the Spur's franchise guy. But Harris-Dirk were easily our two best and most important players.

Not only the arguing with Dirk, because Dirk and Terry grew close as did Howard with Harris. There were different clicks on our team.

That I can agree with.

I don't blame Dirk. That's not his job. If Cuban decides to listen more to his star player than other FOs, than ultimately that's on Cuban. Dirk doesn't make the final decisions, he has his inputs just like the other players on the team (like Stack and Terry who all seemed to like the trade). Also Avery Johnson, despite all his revisionist history going on about Devin.

[JES12]

Well, I'm not saying that Dirk caused it, but hypothetically speaking....If Dirk was closer to Harris than he was Terry, do you think the trade goes down?

I don't. That's my POV. But that still falls on Cuban listening to Dirk.

You and I both wanted to get rid of Stack...for nothing and trade Terry for an upgrade at the 2 guard. We can agree on that much.

[ppp000]

No b/c if Dirk were the kind of guy who cared about friendships than ability and winning (Terry sucking the majority of last season anyways)..then he would have "convinced" Cuban about Nash or not have improved the way he did after they let go a pure PG and his best friend.

I don't question Dirk's motivation to win. I don't see these "alliances" on the team affecting anyone personally BUT Josh howard who regressed ever since the trade (though obviously there were other family issues going on to). Yes I think Cuban is too attached to his players. No I don't think Dirk had as much power in the issue as most people seem to think and no I definitely don't think he would have not "allowed" Terry to be traded when there were rumors about Terry for Maggette almost happening way before that.

[JES12]

OKay. Very reasonabble and well thought post. If fact you almost convinced me. But I still hold to my last post.

[Blowitupalready]

Its like this: Dirk has proven to be an All Star over the last 3 years but not a player capable of taking over a game in the final minutes and winning it for his team. I don't blame Dirk. He is what he is which is a great 7 foot shooter. He is not bulky enough to play on the block nor quick enough to split a double team on the perimeter.

That being said, the Mavs needed that type of player to be a championship team and Harris is the closest thing we had or are ever gonna see in the Dirk era. I CURSED Avery Johnson up and down in the Golden State series for leaving him on the bench so much while the Warriors would go on game changing runs while the MAvs kept missing 3's.

Everyone can say what they want, but if the Mavs were in a tight game the best thing they could ever do is give the ball to Harris and clear out. You can't say that about Kidd. You used to be able to say that about Dirk until the NBA wised up and sent an extra defender at him.

[DDansby123]

PPP, a couple of notes from your posts....

First, Kidd absolutely has not had the impact I'd hoped for. There are myriad reasons why, but it's hard to pinpoint any one thing. I think Josh Howard's inability to mesh with Kidd is one of them, and that's extremely odd given that he fits the mold of a player Kidd should make much better. NJ fans thought Howard would blow up after this deal. That failure falls on Josh's shoulders, IMO. I feel like his immaturity as a player has really shown through since the deal.

Second, I think Josh hasn't regressed as much as an individual player as he has as a teammate.

Third, as to Dirk, you do have to make your superstars happy. If you don't want to do that, you might as well get rid of them. Harris never made the game easier for Dirk the way Kidd does, at least according to Dirk. And I think Josh falls in that same category.

Fourth (and this is kinda funny), the one guy on this team (other than Dirk) that opposing coaches consistently worry about (and have for years) is Jason Terry. A lot of them have said that JET's the guy they have to shut down if they want to beat the Mavs...not Devin or Josh. See my second and third points for the reasons why.

[SpeedyG]

Two words: Damage Control

What was said isn't untrue though. We Nets fans HATE Lawrence Frank with a passion. But the one thing we do give him credit for (as well as Thorn and Kiki), was that they really got together and put in a full gameplan as to how to build this team after last year's trade. Keep in mind that NJ wasn't blowing up last year after the trade, and Harris wasn't playing anywhere close to what he's doing this year.

It's two fold. First, Harris worked on his shot. It looks much better now, and he looks very comfortable in taking it.

The second was the Dribble Drive offense. I don't know if you guys follow the Nets at all because of Harris, but even before this season began, there was hype around the team on the adoption of the Dribble Drive offense ran by Memphis (college, not NBA) last year.

They gave the keys to Carter and Harris (Devin more so) and told them to attack. Then they surrounded him by shooters (Simmons, Yi, Najera, CDR, Anderson, Dooling) and guys who can finish (Lopez, Boone, Williams, even Swift). CDR of course, played in Memphis last year (and during camp, preseason, etc, was VERY instrumental in teaching the DDO to Carter and Harris as far as actual in-game experience on what to expect from it). Brook Lopez grew up playing with/against the sons of the guy who invented the offense.

It was a case of right player, right situation, right time. I think Devin would have had success here in Dallas, given the amount of work he put in the off-season. But to say he'd find the success he's having in NJ to here in Dalls, I don't think that would happen with Dirk, Josh, and Jet., and without an offense the revolves around him, and was built with his strengths in mind.