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Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas

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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#781 » by arkuo » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:55 pm

Captain_Obvious wrote:
juanc wrote:What contracts you give to these years free agents?
For example, I would give:
40/2 to Vučevič(I wouldn't sign him for more than 2 years, maybe max 3 years at around 20mil for season)
50/3 to Randle(I still think he would be great fit with Porz)
50/3 to Brogdon(If Mil matches let them pay)
I would give max 65/3 to Middleton. If he gets a max it could be another HB situation)
I don't know how much money I would give to guys like Aminu, Young,...

Frankly, you can savely add 20 Millions per contract here and it might still be not enough.

Brogdon will get matched for sure. And he will get beyond 20 Millions IMO. Bledsoe will walk before losing him (No interest in him btw, Bronson is just fine).
If they go cheap on Middleton, maybe we get a chance there. But cheap means they only offer 30 Millions, which is already our max capacity.
Going after the Bucks duo is a waste of time IMO.

Vuc would be great. I think Randle would be awesome as well. If we get either, it is a fantastic addition (and way better than dealing with Barnes another year). Vuc might get offers past 30 Millions though, so I think Randle is more realistic.


Strictly in terms of realistic attainability:

Tier 1 Free Agents: Kawhi, Kemba

Tier 2 Free Agents: Randle, Cousins, Vucevic

Tier 3 Free Agents: Danny Green, Thad Young, Aminu

All of those guys would fit with us somehow as I dont think we are at a level where we can say no to talent. We take as much as we can at this stage. It all depends on their willingness to come here.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#782 » by DoncictheGoat » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:16 pm

Can someone explain why porzingis cap hit next season is 17m?

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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#783 » by Mr B » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:27 pm

DoncictheGoat wrote:Can someone explain why porzingis cap hit next season is 17m?

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Because he is a Restricted free agent. That’s his cap hold.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#784 » by Mr B » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:29 pm

arkuo wrote:
Captain_Obvious wrote:
juanc wrote:What contracts you give to these years free agents?
For example, I would give:
40/2 to Vučevič(I wouldn't sign him for more than 2 years, maybe max 3 years at around 20mil for season)
50/3 to Randle(I still think he would be great fit with Porz)
50/3 to Brogdon(If Mil matches let them pay)
I would give max 65/3 to Middleton. If he gets a max it could be another HB situation)
I don't know how much money I would give to guys like Aminu, Young,...

Frankly, you can savely add 20 Millions per contract here and it might still be not enough.

Brogdon will get matched for sure. And he will get beyond 20 Millions IMO. Bledsoe will walk before losing him (No interest in him btw, Bronson is just fine).
If they go cheap on Middleton, maybe we get a chance there. But cheap means they only offer 30 Millions, which is already our max capacity.
Going after the Bucks duo is a waste of time IMO.

Vuc would be great. I think Randle would be awesome as well. If we get either, it is a fantastic addition (and way better than dealing with Barnes another year). Vuc might get offers past 30 Millions though, so I think Randle is more realistic.


Strictly in terms of realistic attainability:

Tier 1 Free Agents: Kawhi, Kemba

Tier 2 Free Agents: Randle, Cousins, Vucevic

Tier 3 Free Agents: Danny Green, Thad Young, Aminu

All of those guys would fit with us somehow as I dont think we are at a level where we can say no to talent. We take as much as we can at this stage. It all depends on their willingness to come here.


I don’t see Kawhi as a realistic option. Not with him wanting to play in LA and the Clippers having enough cap space for 2 max players. Even if he did not go to LA I think he would resign in Toronto before signing with Dallas.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#785 » by DoncictheGoat » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:38 pm

Mr B wrote:
Because he is a Restricted free agent. That’s his cap hold.


I mean i know he RFA, but his offer is 4 mil for QO.
I still dont understand 17m as a cap hold? So he can receive max salary at 17m next season?

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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#786 » by Jg41 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:20 pm

J_T wrote:The way I see it there are two types of max players: real max players and fake max players. Mavs should not give a max to a fake max player under any circumstance. If only a fake max player wants to come to Dallas, then - as arkuo said - just build this place into a destination for real max players.


The fact of the matter is Dallas has repeatedly proven it isn't a destination for "real" max players. To your point of building Dallas into a such a destination, the best way to go about that while destinations like LA and NY exist is to target a player down the road (ideally in an inferior market) that you can (piece by piece) lure your way. Giannis fits the bill on multiple levels -- Dallas being a substantial upgrade over Milwaukee in marketability and standard of living, the unparalleled legacy of European success stories, established championship MBT, and the fact that Luka and KP compliment his skillset and age window, make him a legit gettable target. Adding Middleton for 120/3+1 is fair market value, an optimal realistic fit, and if he moves the needle towards securing Giannis in 2021, the Mavs shouldn't hesitate. It gives Dallas a starting lineup where Luka at 6-7, is its shortest player...

To the first person's reply to my lengthy post, much of what I said applies -- to spend the next decade in Milwaukee, Giannis will be looking for them to not only be able to contend now but long-term, if he's going to be asked to forgo more palatable destinations. Giving Middleton the max will likely not push them over the edge towards perennial contention, and will restrict their roster flexibility moving forward. While the same can be said for us to a lesser extent, the fact that we'll have Luka, KP, and Middleton already on deck with the flexibility to sign Giannis in 2021 would put our roster outlook on a virtually unrivaled level throughout the league.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#787 » by J_T » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Jg41 wrote:Adding Middleton for 120/3+1 is fair market value


That's the problem, Middleton getting a max is a fair market value only because max value exists. If there was no cap then Middleton would not be having such market value. He is a fake max player. Fake max players are worse value than real max players. I think Mavs should target either real max players or target players with 10-15M cap hit instead.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#788 » by arkuo » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:08 pm

Mr B wrote:
arkuo wrote:
Captain_Obvious wrote:Frankly, you can savely add 20 Millions per contract here and it might still be not enough.

Brogdon will get matched for sure. And he will get beyond 20 Millions IMO. Bledsoe will walk before losing him (No interest in him btw, Bronson is just fine).
If they go cheap on Middleton, maybe we get a chance there. But cheap means they only offer 30 Millions, which is already our max capacity.
Going after the Bucks duo is a waste of time IMO.

Vuc would be great. I think Randle would be awesome as well. If we get either, it is a fantastic addition (and way better than dealing with Barnes another year). Vuc might get offers past 30 Millions though, so I think Randle is more realistic.


Strictly in terms of realistic attainability:

Tier 1 Free Agents: Kawhi, Kemba

Tier 2 Free Agents: Randle, Cousins, Vucevic

Tier 3 Free Agents: Danny Green, Thad Young, Aminu

All of those guys would fit with us somehow as I dont think we are at a level where we can say no to talent. We take as much as we can at this stage. It all depends on their willingness to come here.


I don’t see Kawhi as a realistic option. Not with him wanting to play in LA and the Clippers having enough cap space for 2 max players. Even if he did not go to LA I think he would resign in Toronto before signing with Dallas.


I see Kawhi as a lone wolf compared to KD or Kyrie who are mostly clique-ish and always want to play with each other. Cuban and Donnie can handle his uncle who's kinda like Lavar Ball too. But maybe you're right.

If we're paying one person the whole $30M bag, then I hope it's one of the Top 5 Ks. If not Kawhi then Kemba may be the only one who's attainable from that list. What casual fans who dont watch Charlotte games is he's high usage PG and that's that. However he can also run through screens like Rip Hamilton and shoot a jumper and play off ball. His midrange jumpshot is 97% percentile in the league. If Lebron and coexist and win with Kyrie, I see no reason why Kemba and Luka cant. Add KP to the mix and that's a 55 to 60 win team IMO.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#789 » by Darren » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:18 pm

30M, it's better be AD or KL. The 3rd core has to be top-notch defender. In all indications, Leonard is more durable defender due to long arms and quick hand/feet along with underrated offensive game. I think KL worths more than Butler due to these measurements alone.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#790 » by J_T » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:20 pm

No to Kemba. Money can be much better spent elsewhere.

Again, it's better just to split it between two players.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#791 » by Pointguard01 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:52 pm

Jg41 wrote:Klay is without a doubt the best fit, but highly unlikely. If he’s leaving GS he’s going to play in LA or NY, but the 190+ million he’s gonna be offered by GS will likely be too good to pass up. Leonard and KD are even more enticing, but just as unlikely to move back to Texas. Like many of you, I’m leery of going all in on a “gettable” PG or C (i.e. Kemba / Vucevic / Cousins … Kyrie excluded under the “gettable” parameters) because I firmly believe that this team’s ceiling likely calls for Luka and KP to man the 1 and 5 and ultimately develop into top 3 players over the next decade at those respective positions. Until that potential proves unrealizable, the team should operate with that strategy for at least the next two summers. With that out of the way, a wing player seems to be the most prudent investment—for now.

Assuming (soundly) that the aforementioned top 3 wings will be off the board, Dallas should go hard after Middleton—far and away the next best option on the wing. Milwaukee will have a number of FA’s to address, and Middleton’s relatively advanced age (27) will factor into their likely decision to prioritize locking up their younger options first. Two non-basketball considerations: Dallas’ ability to extend Khris an offer just shy of the max works in our favor, because while he’s certainly not a max caliber player, a 30m starting salary should ward off virtually every other suitor and still result in the Mavs not overpaying (as significantly…~30M vs. ~32.7M) or resorting to unhealthy cap-creating mechanisms like stretching Lee or Powell. The second and far more significant non-basketball consideration is having him join the recruiting team of Luka, KP, Kostas, Dirk, and the MBT in luring Giannis to Dallas in 2021. Basketball-wise, Middleton is, by all accounts, a consummate professional, and an all around good player. His ability to effectively guard the wing, rebound, assist, and shoot the 3 make him a poor man’s Klay Thompson, and an excellent off-ball backcourt partner for Luka. His length (6-8) and positional versatility would be a welcome addition to the starting lineup.

An idea I’ve got less conviction for (for reasons I’ll explain) is pulling the trigger on a deal with Miami to give them some immediate salary relief. The Mavs could offer Brunson, THJ, and Powell (PO), and a future 2nd or two (and/or resending the 2023 2nd they owe us) for Dragic (PO) and Anderson. Both are on expiring contracts and would provide needed 3-point shooting while filling serviceable roles off the bench this season. Along with forfeiting even more future draft capital, the team would be sacrificing 3 young players for two guys approaching their mid-thirties, but these risks would be offset by an improved 2019-20 rotation, added 2020 FA flexibility, and the subtle appeasement of Luka Doncic by pairing him with his fellow countryman. I’m not quite sure if the team would be legally required to utilize its massive trade exception to consummate this deal, but if so it’s a tool I wouldn’t hesitate too much to employ.

I’d then continue the offseason by locking up our RFAs — Dodo and Maxi — ideally in the sub 10 million range over 3-4 years. I would not make use of any further exceptions (Mid-Level or Bi-Annual***Exception noted below) in order to preserve flexibility over the following two summers, but if a valuable player could be had for the MLE over 2 years (with a TO on the 3rd), then I wouldn’t be totally opposed, but I doubt it would be prudent.

Assuming Dirk and Harris retire, I’d round out the offseason by signing Tyson Chandler, Barea, and Mejri (further Luka appeasement) to veteran minimum contracts (Tyson might require the Bi-Annual...I'd give it to him, he's certainly earned it). Then have our 2nd Rd. Pick (wing?) compete with Macon and Kostas for a roster spot and reserve the other two players on two-ways (obviously weighing pros and cons for added g-league playing time vs. NBA team experience). With Barea unlikely to be back at the start of the season, Macon would likely get the nod to be the third-string PG until he returns, allowing Kostas to continue getting experience (and prolonging his 2-way eligibility) in the G-League. This leaves us with one open roster spot and some (and/or all) of our trade / Mid-Level / Bi-Annual exception(s) for in-season acquisition(s) and the following 2019-20 Mavericks Roster:

PG - L. Doncic / G. Dragic / J. Barea / D. Macon?
SG - K. Middleton / C. Lee / R. Broekhoff
SF - D. Finney-Smith / J. Jackson / 2nd Rd. Pick?
PF - M. Kleber / R. Anderson / K. Antetokounmpo?
C - K. Porzingis / T. Chandler / S. Mejri

That should be a playoff team with enough veterans to make a realistic run at a top-4 seed. The only guaranteed contracts on the books for the summer of 2021 will be Middleton (~33M) / Porzingis (~31.6M) / Doncic (~10.2M) / Finney-Smith (~10M) / Kleber (~10M) / +7 Roster Spots @~1M each. Depending on Middleton, DFS, and Kleba’s exact figures, and the salary cap that year, the club should be able to shed one of the two latter players (ideally Kleber) and be able to offer Giannis something very close to the max (~38M assuming a ~127M 2021 salary cap) provided that Dallas opts for a frugal approach in the summer of 2020. If Giannis can hit the 3 by then and Luka and KP reach their top 3 positional potential, this team would be set up for a Warriors-like Dynasty throughout the 2020s.


Your Middleton point I agree with.

To piggy back on what J_T said, there are real MAX and FAKE max players.

Real MAX: Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Kawai Leonoard, etc
FAKE MAX: Khris Middleton, Tobias Harris, Nikola Vuvevic, etc

Dallas is not going to get a real MAX. A point I would add here: Because we have 3 more years starting this summer of paying a REAL max player (Luka) a role player's salary (~$8-million per), we can afford overpaying for a fake max player. The combined average of the two players is $19 million, which is more than reasonable for both. This overpaying is worth it if said fake max player is a great fit. Khris Middleton is as good of a fit as you find (maybe the best? Klay is great but not a playmaker. Other players will take the ball out of Lukas hands, aren't great shooters/defenders. He really is exactly what we want + an All-Star).

That said, I think MIL has to match whatever offer we give and he would choose MIL/East/his current really good situation over Dallas. I still play that card but I dont think we win the hand.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#792 » by arkuo » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:03 pm

If we cant get a REAL max player, we can just sign Thad Young as a stop gap solution this summer. And just splurge on Pascal Siakam next summer. That guy is what we need.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#793 » by arkuo » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:32 pm

Here's the situation. If we dont spend the $30M we have this year (because a lot of teams will have money and will definitely be buyers this summer), and we add it to the $25M vacated by Lee and Powell, and we take into account a small rise in the salary cap, we'd have about $60M to spend next summer.

Two guys I'd target for $25M to $28M each are Jaylen Brown and Pascal Siakam. They are RFA so you'd have to throw every penny at them with hopes that their current teams wont match. Boston probably wont have money to match if they are gunning at AD, while having Kyrie, Horford and Hayward in there. Toronto is interesting though because they will have money as half their team will be free agents (Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka, Kyle Lowry, Kawhi, Van Vleet will all be gone) and judging from Masai Ujiri's business moves, that is a sign that his window has closed, thus starting a rebuild. Would they match a $25M contract for a 26 year old Pascal Siakam who may be 30-ish by the time he's done building? We shall see.

C- Kristaps Porzingis
PF- Pascal Siakam
SF- Dorian Finney Smith
SG- Jaylen Brown
PG- Luka Doncic

And ride that team til the wheels fall off the next decade or so.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#794 » by Mr B » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:35 pm

arkuo wrote:
Mr B wrote:
arkuo wrote:
Strictly in terms of realistic attainability:

Tier 1 Free Agents: Kawhi, Kemba

Tier 2 Free Agents: Randle, Cousins, Vucevic

Tier 3 Free Agents: Danny Green, Thad Young, Aminu

All of those guys would fit with us somehow as I dont think we are at a level where we can say no to talent. We take as much as we can at this stage. It all depends on their willingness to come here.


I don’t see Kawhi as a realistic option. Not with him wanting to play in LA and the Clippers having enough cap space for 2 max players. Even if he did not go to LA I think he would resign in Toronto before signing with Dallas.


I see Kawhi as a lone wolf compared to KD or Kyrie who are mostly clique-ish and always want to play with each other. Cuban and Donnie can handle his uncle who's kinda like Lavar Ball too. But maybe you're right.

If we're paying one person the whole $30M bag, then I hope it's one of the Top 5 Ks. If not Kawhi then Kemba may be the only one who's attainable from that list. What casual fans who dont watch Charlotte games is he's high usage PG and that's that. However he can also run through screens like Rip Hamilton and shoot a jumper and play off ball. His midrange jumpshot is 97% percentile in the league. If Lebron and coexist and win with Kyrie, I see no reason why Kemba and Luka cant. Add KP to the mix and that's a 55 to 60 win team IMO.


The fact that Kawhi is not one of these new age players that just want to load up on one team is exactly why I think he’s going to the Clippers. It’s no secret his desire is to play in LA. He’s from there, he just bought a house there and his agent leaked (prior to being traded to Toronto) that is where he wants to play. He’s also made it clear he doesn’t want to play with Labron.

I see him signing with the Clippers on a max deal and the team using the rest of their money to fill out their roster. Deandre is also likely returning to the team. It just makes too much sense. If the Clippers were not an option I do think he would consider Dallas but not with them being able to max him out.

I also agree with you about Kemba. I think he’d be a great fit here. I wouldn’t be upset if they went after Kemba and Julius Randle.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#795 » by Dirk » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:17 pm

Move the discussion to this topic.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1807672#p73010134

Spoiler:
DoncictheGoat wrote:
Mr B wrote:
Because he is a Restricted free agent. That’s his cap hold.


I mean i know he RFA, but his offer is 4 mil for QO.
I still dont understand 17m as a cap hold? So he can receive max salary at 17m next season?

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CBA rules.

He is coming off his 4th year in the league and makes below the league average.

His cap hold will be 300% of his current salary (18-19).

So, 5697054 x 3 = 17091162. This is what counts against the Mavs cap. His 1st year salary on a max will be $27,250,000.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#796 » by Darren » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:10 pm

J_T wrote:No to Kemba. Money can be much better spent elsewhere.

Again, it's better just to split it between two players.


Injury aside, Irving is better fit than Kemba. Irving is elite scoring in paint. A floor manager. Clutch. Relatively young. Can shoot at reasonable percentage from long range. 40% from long range. 50-40-80. Not a liability on defensive end. Champion. No size problem. Irving will surpass LBJ very soon. More impactful to the game than KD.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#797 » by Darren » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:29 pm

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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#798 » by Mr B » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:25 am

Darren wrote:


Great video but the problem with it is that not once does it show how Kyrie plays off the ball. He’s not a good fit in Dallas. Not that he would ever come here even if the Mavs did want him. If the Mavs were to add a PG it will have to be a guy that can play off the ball because Luka will be running the offense most of the time. Kemba is a guy that can play off the ball and can score at a high rate.
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Re: Mavs 2018-19 Trades & Roster ideas 

Post#799 » by Pointguard01 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:18 pm

arkuo wrote:If we cant get a REAL max player, we can just sign Thad Young as a stop gap solution this summer. And just splurge on Pascal Siakam next summer. That guy is what we need.


Siakam (and Jaylen Brown) are also FAKE max players. It's super hard to get a REAL max player. We will have to sign a FAKE max player. We aren't getting a real one this offseason.

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