Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[DJ_3_Ball]

I'm impressed every time he keeps doing what he is doing. Longevity and consistency counts. I don't care for any such statistical milestones, that's not the right way to watch basketball or to evaluate players. Not to mention that ultimately it will lead to your depression if you are always impressed only by "more".

1,000% agree. But, milestones are fun.

I mean, if I'm talking in purely a strategical, developmental point for Luka. Then I want to see fewer TOs. I want to see better shot selection. I want to see his 3 pt % increase like the way his FT% improved from year 1 to year 2. All of that jazz. Along with continued improvement on defense (which is going to be hard, and I'm going to cut him some slack there as long as his offensive load is 3x the average lead playmaker on an NBA team is)

But, if I'm just talking about for fun. Yeah, I'd like to see 20 assists. That's cool. I doubt even LeBron has done that very many times in his career... I'll check... yup. LBJ's career high in assists is 19.

I seriously think Luka can be a threat for 30. I think he'll do 20 this season. I think he'll do it before the ASB. Actually, my only concern is he has 16 in the 3rd quarter and has to sit the entire 4th.

It's just a question for fun tho bro. Most of this forum is serious enough lol.

[Dirk]

Spoiler:

Question for the masses,

What is the next thing you will see from Luka that will really impress you?

As crazy as this sounds, a 30 point triple double doesn't "impress" me, anymore. I mean, yes. It is still impressive. But, I think it's not like Whoa! Didn't know Luka could do that, or didn't know he had progressed that far this quick already.

We know Luka is at the 30 point triple double stage. I guess if the Mavs had some unexpected trade and landed a big time scorer in here, and Luka was still putting up these 30 point triple doubles, then I would be more impressed with them.

If Luka continues to average a 30 point triple double into the ASB, I'll be slightly more impressed. I think when you get the astronomical usage Luka has, you kinda should be among the league leaders in a few categories. It'd kinda like scaling it back down to 24 pts 7 reb 7 asst per game. That and the style of play these days.

So, not to piss on Luka, the kid is incredible. All of that can be wiped away with "Yeah and he's not even 21 yet!"

But, in terms of what I think I'll see from Luka, but I'm not 100% sure, but it would really impress me.

I'm confident we'll see a 50 point game from Luka sometime soon. He would of already had one, if he could play these 4th quarters in blowouts. So, he'll have to do it vs a good team in a close game. Makes it a bit harder, but Luka will do it. One night he'll just catch fire, and his teammates will be off, and the workload will go all to him; even more than usual.

I wasn't really impressed with the 18 rebounds last night. Not as much as I should of been, anyways. It's not that impressive when a team chucks perimeter shots & the rebound falls into your lap and no teammates challenge you for it because might as well get the ball into your hands ASAP & push the ball on offense. Luka gets a lot of cheapies like that. In his defense, he gets a lot of rebounds in traffic too. He is an excellent rebounder. Just I don't know about 10.4 rpg good. I could see him getting 20 rebounds in a game in the near future. It wouldn't shock me at all. Especially vs a team that tries to run a small ball lineup vs the Mavs. Luka could have 15 by the half. No problem.

What will impress me the most... well outside of Luka having a 5 steal, 3 blk performance where he is just masterful on the defensive end...

What will impress me the most is when Luka has his first 20 assist game. I think that's coming. But, this supporting cast doesn't shoot it too well. Otherwise he might of already been a threat for 20. It'll take Luka being masterful, because his teammates will probably leave a few on the table.

I don't know. It'd just be fun. I think Luka could give ya 25 assists. I think he'll do that one day. He might even have a 30 assist game in him at some point in his career. For context, Steve Nash's career high was 22.

I'm impressed every time he keeps doing what he is doing. Longevity and consistency counts. I don't care for any such statistical milestones, that's not the right way to watch basketball or to evaluate players. Not to mention that ultimately it will lead to your depression if you are always impressed only by "more".

I am also more impressed with consistency, above anything else. 2 bad games out of 20 is pretty crazy. I am almost curious to see how the world will be if he has a few bad games... to see what kind of narratives would be written. But I think we can just assume that his ability ton run the offense, get people open, etc... will likely make it difficult to actually see him have "bad games in a row".

Having a 40-20-15 game is a given though. He will have more than one.

By the way, I am more impressed by smart plays, sometimes just making a quick pass to someone else open, than with the step back stuff and whatever. Although... this stuff makes me laugh. He does continue to surprise with how fluid he looks making some moves that you'd never imagine him making considering all the perception of "not athletic", "fat", etc.

[Dirk]

luka offtheball sighting

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Spoiler:

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assist of the night

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[twomangame]

Long time Mavs fan here. I seldom comment in the board, and am just happy to read most of your thoughts for the past years.

I may get berated in here, but Luka needs to tone down the whining on missed calls. I notice it gets in his head and affects his game. As a fan, it frustrates me to see refs swallowing their whistles, but at some point he just needs to play on like what great players do. I get that he's young and all, but the constant complaining gets annoying at some point even as a fan.

[taibumu]

Mitotic going to stay in Spain. It's a deep decision.
And he went to Barcelona, the great opponent of his and Luka former team, Real Madrid.
So, in this case I know the reality is a non return.

Enviado desde mi MI 9 mediante Tapatalk

[Kingarella]

Igor Kokoškov, ex phoenix suns coach, had an interview with a croatian sports magazine...asked about Luka's draft and his nonpick from phoenix he answered that, he (kokoskov) is a professional and won't make a comment, excep the fact that he (kokoskov) sleeps well, peacefully with a clean conscience.

[Bob8]

Long time Mavs fan here. I seldom comment in the board, and am just happy to read most of your thoughts for the past years.

I may get berated in here, but Luka needs to tone down the whining on missed calls. I notice it gets in his head and affects his game. As a fan, it frustrates me to see refs swallowing their whistles, but at some point he just needs to play on like what great players do. I get that he's young and all, but the constant complaining gets annoying at some point even as a fan.

His age has to show somewhere. But it’s not referring that affects his game, his bad shooting is. He is always nervous as hell, when he 3-pointers don’t fall. People just don’t realise how important his long range pull ups are. All his game depends on them. What is athleticism for others, shooting is for Luka. Shooting opens his drives. If he becomes around 38% 3-points shooter, he will be unstoppable, multiple MVP. That’s not easy though, because his shots are mostly unassisted pull-ups. He will need to be elite. Unfortunately there’s no other path to go, because his athleticism doesn’t allow him to play like some other stars can. 3 pts % near 38 and FT % near 90, that should be his ultimate goal.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Long time Mavs fan here. I seldom comment in the board, and am just happy to read most of your thoughts for the past years.

I may get berated in here, but Luka needs to tone down the whining on missed calls. I notice it gets in his head and affects his game. As a fan, it frustrates me to see refs swallowing their whistles, but at some point he just needs to play on like what great players do. I get that he's young and all, but the constant complaining gets annoying at some point even as a fan.

His age has to show somewhere. But it’s not referring that affects his game, his bad shooting is. He is always nervous as hell, when he 3-pointers don’t fall. People just don’t realise how important his long range pull ups are. All his game depends on them. What is athleticism for others, shooting is for Luka. Shooting opens his drives. If he becomes around 38% 3-points shooter, he will be unstoppable, multiple MVP. That’s not easy though, because his shots are mostly unassisted pull-ups. He will need to be elite. Unfortunately there’s no other path to go, because his athleticism doesn’t allow him to play like some other stars can. 3 pts % near 38 and FT % near 90, that should be his ultimate goal.

I call BULL (you know what)!!!

First, I heard someone say. I don't know some national guy on TV. Maybe Tim Legler, whoever. One of those types say "Luka might be like LeBron early in his career. A guy with an okay 3 point shot, but nothing exceptional". So far, that's the case. 32.7% career 3pt shooter. And yet, who's getting votes for the MVP this season? Luka is.

Second, I know I saw this on NBA TV or somewhere like that. Maybe one of those Sports Science episodes on Sportscenter. James Harden is in the 99th percentile in the NBA in terms of decelerating. James Harden isn't the fastest guy in the NBA, but he can create a lot of separation because he can stop faster than you can. Luka is just like that. In fact, in the LAL game, I remember Followill & Harper talking about that. There was a play where Luka stopped and the defender just kept going another 5 feet. So, he does have athleticism. It's just not the in your face the guy has a 48 inch vertical that is easily digestible for the masses. Obviously, it's effective.

Third, this was very apparent just watching his Euroleague highlights. Luka knows what he's doing on offense. His handle is one of the best in the league. It might be the best with apologies to Kyrie & Steph. His handle is phenomenal. It allows him to really get wherever he wants on the floor, and once he's there, he knows what to do. Pin a defender on his back hip, force him to slow down, then he speeds up and gets an open 8 foot floater in the lane. He draws fouls, he gets a defender leaning one way, then goes the other. He's very crafty. I'd MUCH rather have a guy who is crafty than a guy who is athletic. That's not even close.

It'd be great if Luka shot 38% from 3, but I don't it'll ever happen. Not any time soon. Not with the volume he's shooting right now.

Lastly, yeah, it'd be nice if Luka could get his "ish" together & stop whining at the refs. Time to grow up kid.

[Bob8]

Long time Mavs fan here. I seldom comment in the board, and am just happy to read most of your thoughts for the past years.

I may get berated in here, but Luka needs to tone down the whining on missed calls. I notice it gets in his head and affects his game. As a fan, it frustrates me to see refs swallowing their whistles, but at some point he just needs to play on like what great players do. I get that he's young and all, but the constant complaining gets annoying at some point even as a fan.

His age has to show somewhere. But it’s not referring that affects his game, his bad shooting is. He is always nervous as hell, when he 3-pointers don’t fall. People just don’t realise how important his long range pull ups are. All his game depends on them. What is athleticism for others, shooting is for Luka. Shooting opens his drives. If he becomes around 38% 3-points shooter, he will be unstoppable, multiple MVP. That’s not easy though, because his shots are mostly unassisted pull-ups. He will need to be elite. Unfortunately there’s no other path to go, because his athleticism doesn’t allow him to play like some other stars can. 3 pts % near 38 and FT % near 90, that should be his ultimate goal.

I call BULL (you know what)!!!

First, I heard someone say. I don't know some national guy on TV. Maybe Tim Legler, whoever. One of those types say "Luka might be like LeBron early in his career. A guy with an okay 3 point shot, but nothing exceptional". So far, that's the case. 32.7% career 3pt shooter. And yet, who's getting votes for the MVP this season? Luka is.

Second, I know I saw this on NBA TV or somewhere like that. Maybe one of those Sports Science episodes on Sportscenter. James Harden is in the 99th percentile in the NBA in terms of decelerating. James Harden isn't the fastest guy in the NBA, but he can create a lot of separation because he can stop faster than you can. Luka is just like that. In fact, in the LAL game, I remember Followill & Harper talking about that. There was a play where Luka stopped and the defender just kept going another 5 feet. So, he does have athleticism. It's just not the in your face the guy has a 48 inch vertical that is easily digestible for the masses. Obviously, it's effective.

Third, this was very apparent just watching his Euroleague highlights. Luka knows what he's doing on offense. His handle is one of the best in the league. It might be the best with apologies to Kyrie & Steph. His handle is phenomenal. It allows him to really get wherever he wants on the floor, and once he's there, he knows what to do. Pin a defender on his back hip, force him to slow down, then he speeds up and gets an open 8 foot floater in the lane. He draws fouls, he gets a defender leaning one way, then goes the other. He's very crafty. I'd MUCH rather have a guy who is crafty than a guy who is athletic. That's not even close.

It'd be great if Luka shot 38% from 3, but I don't it'll ever happen. Not any time soon. Not with the volume he's shooting right now.

Lastly, yeah, it'd be nice if Luka could get his "ish" together & stop whining at the refs. Time to grow up kid.

What’s exactly your point?

You might look at Luka’s worst and the most nervous games this season? Against Denver, Clippers and Minnesota. What have this games in common? Very physical teams and his 3s didn’t falling. 1/6; 0/8; 1/8. Luka without good 3-pointer won’t do anything in playoffs.

Btw. I haven’t watched Euroleague highlights, but every of his game in Euroleague live, I was in Istanbul and Belgrade in F4.

[DJ_3_Ball]

What’s exactly your point?

He's an MVP candidate, and his career 3pt shooting % is 32.7

You said he'll have to become at 38% 3pt shooter to be a multi MVP winner.

I call B.S.

He'll never approach 38%, but he will win multiple MVPs.

That's my point.


Edit: You also said he's not athletic; therefore, he has to shoot 38% in order to compensate for his lack of athleticism. I disagree. He is athletic. He decelerates at a world class rate.

People tend to look at only the most obvious traits. A pitcher can throw 103 mph, so he must be the best. Greg Maddox topped out at like 91 mph. But, analytics taught us the most effective pitchers have a 10-12 mph difference between their fastball and offspeed pitches i.e. a guy who throws 92 & 80 will be more effective than a guy who throws 100 & 94.

Luka changes pace very well, exceptionally well. It's a skill. It is athleticism. You don't have to be Ish Smith and the fastest track athlete on the court. You don't have to be DSJ with a 45 inch vertical. You don't have to be Dwight Powell with a chiseled body & able to bench press 3x your own body weight. That does not equal athleticism. There are other forms. Body control is a form of athleticism. Luka is in the 99th percentile of NBA athletes when it comes to things like that.

[wolfram]

What’s exactly your point?

He's an MVP candidate, and his career 3pt shooting % is 32.7

You said he'll have to become at 38% 3pt shooter to be a multi MVP winner.

I call B.S.

He'll never approach 38%, but he will win multiple MVPs.

That's my point.


Edit: You also said he's not athletic; therefore, he has to shoot 38% in order to compensate for his lack of athleticism. I disagree. He is athletic. He decelerates at a world class rate.

People tend to look at only the most obvious traits. A pitcher can throw 103 mph, so he must be the best. Greg Maddox topped out at like 91 mph. But, analytics taught us the most effective pitchers have a 10-12 mph difference between their fastball and offspeed pitches i.e. a guy who throws 92 & 80 will be more effective than a guy who throws 100 & 94.

Luka changes pace very well, exceptionally well. It's a skill. It is athleticism. You don't have to be Ish Smith and the fastest track athlete on the court. You don't have to be DSJ with a 45 inch vertical. You don't have to be Dwight Powell with a chiseled body & able to bench press 3x your own body weight. That does not equal athleticism. There are other forms. Body control is a form of athleticism. Luka is in the 99th percentile of NBA athletes when it comes to things like that.

I agree with both. Luka has great athleticism, just not the standard first step and jumping. I will just add, he is FAST when he gets his momentum going. For example that dunk against the Lakers - uh oh indeed.
But also his MVP status depends on 3pt shooting. If he can keep up 33% shooting on high volume, then no worries. But it could get worse this season. His conditioning is still not great and it impacts his shooting.

[Bob8]

What’s exactly your point?

He's an MVP candidate, and his career 3pt shooting % is 32.7

You said he'll have to become at 38% 3pt shooter to be a multi MVP winner.

I call B.S.

He'll never approach 38%, but he will win multiple MVPs.

That's my point.


Edit: You also said he's not athletic; therefore, he has to shoot 38% in order to compensate for his lack of athleticism. I disagree. He is athletic. He decelerates at a world class rate.

People tend to look at only the most obvious traits. A pitcher can throw 103 mph, so he must be the best. Greg Maddox topped out at like 91 mph. But, analytics taught us the most effective pitchers have a 10-12 mph difference between their fastball and offspeed pitches i.e. a guy who throws 92 & 80 will be more effective than a guy who throws 100 & 94.

Luka changes pace very well, exceptionally well. It's a skill. It is athleticism. You don't have to be Ish Smith and the fastest track athlete on the court. You don't have to be DSJ with a 45 inch vertical. You don't have to be Dwight Powell with a chiseled body & able to bench press 3x your own body weight. That does not equal athleticism. There are other forms. Body control is a form of athleticism. Luka is in the 99th percentile of NBA athletes when it comes to things like that.

So your point is that he will be multiple MVP, without good outside shooting, based on 15 good games in this season?

Look, I don’t need your patronising explanation about athleticism. I tried to explain to you that he suffered against more physical D, when his 3s didn’t fall. You might not agree with me, but your theoretical explanations won’t make Luka MVP and it doesn’t make you look extremely smart, which seems to me is your goal.

[Archx]

What’s exactly your point?

He's an MVP candidate, and his career 3pt shooting % is 32.7

You said he'll have to become at 38% 3pt shooter to be a multi MVP winner.

I call B.S.

He'll never approach 38%, but he will win multiple MVPs.

That's my point.


Edit: You also said he's not athletic; therefore, he has to shoot 38% in order to compensate for his lack of athleticism. I disagree. He is athletic. He decelerates at a world class rate.

People tend to look at only the most obvious traits. A pitcher can throw 103 mph, so he must be the best. Greg Maddox topped out at like 91 mph. But, analytics taught us the most effective pitchers have a 10-12 mph difference between their fastball and offspeed pitches i.e. a guy who throws 92 & 80 will be more effective than a guy who throws 100 & 94.

Luka changes pace very well, exceptionally well. It's a skill. It is athleticism. You don't have to be Ish Smith and the fastest track athlete on the court. You don't have to be DSJ with a 45 inch vertical. You don't have to be Dwight Powell with a chiseled body & able to bench press 3x your own body weight. That does not equal athleticism. There are other forms. Body control is a form of athleticism. Luka is in the 99th percentile of NBA athletes when it comes to things like that.

I agree with both. Luka has great athleticism, just not the standard first step and jumping. I will just add, he is FAST when he gets his momentum going. For example that dunk against the Lakers - uh oh indeed.
But also his MVP status depends on 3pt shooting. If he can keep up 33% shooting on high volume, then no worries. But it could get worse this season. His conditioning is still not great and it impacts his shooting.

Yeah indeed. It is becoming more and more evident that his conditioning is still miles away from what it should be. You could see in these tough back to back games. He did a lot in PHX in the 1st Q and in the 4th he was already hurting. Saw it couple of times already this season. That's why his best quarters are 1st and 3rd after he gets long breaks obviously. Rough stretch of games are coming up and i am afraid he will continue to struggle if his legs are going to be tired.
Against Minny he literally had no proper lift and that's also why he missed so many layups (besides obvious fouls). But when he is rested he can finish extremely tough layups.

And Bob8 is right. If Doncic can make 3/9 3pt attempts per night, that's 33%, should be enough for defenders to guard him close and make some room for his drive to the rim. I wish he would shoot around 4/10 40%, but when he is shooting poorly, his entire offense struggles. It was the same in EU as it is now. He doesn't rely on mid range game, it's either drives or long shots. So it would be awesome if he could sustain around 35-36% on 3pt shoots which would also mean an efficient 47-50 FG%. And i hope his latest struggles from the FT line are just momentary lapses.

[thomas1897]

Luka is a very special talent and he belongs in the new group of young superstars. His talent reminds me of a young Jerry West bigger stronger and more versatile. He is not afraid of making the big shot or play. He is only going to get better watch out. Mark Cuban needs to surround him with more talent to assist in his growth as a player.

[GaiusVelleius]

He's an MVP candidate, and his career 3pt shooting % is 32.7

You said he'll have to become at 38% 3pt shooter to be a multi MVP winner.

I call B.S.

He'll never approach 38%, but he will win multiple MVPs.

That's my point.


Edit: You also said he's not athletic; therefore, he has to shoot 38% in order to compensate for his lack of athleticism. I disagree. He is athletic. He decelerates at a world class rate.

People tend to look at only the most obvious traits. A pitcher can throw 103 mph, so he must be the best. Greg Maddox topped out at like 91 mph. But, analytics taught us the most effective pitchers have a 10-12 mph difference between their fastball and offspeed pitches i.e. a guy who throws 92 & 80 will be more effective than a guy who throws 100 & 94.

Luka changes pace very well, exceptionally well. It's a skill. It is athleticism. You don't have to be Ish Smith and the fastest track athlete on the court. You don't have to be DSJ with a 45 inch vertical. You don't have to be Dwight Powell with a chiseled body & able to bench press 3x your own body weight. That does not equal athleticism. There are other forms. Body control is a form of athleticism. Luka is in the 99th percentile of NBA athletes when it comes to things like that.

I agree with both. Luka has great athleticism, just not the standard first step and jumping. I will just add, he is FAST when he gets his momentum going. For example that dunk against the Lakers - uh oh indeed.
But also his MVP status depends on 3pt shooting. If he can keep up 33% shooting on high volume, then no worries. But it could get worse this season. His conditioning is still not great and it impacts his shooting.

Yeah indeed. It is becoming more and more evident that his conditioning is still miles away from what it should be. You could see in these tough back to back games. He did a lot in PHX in the 1st Q and in the 4th he was already hurting. Saw it couple of times already this season. That's why his best quarters are 1st and 3rd after he gets long breaks obviously. Rough stretch of games are coming up and i am afraid he will continue to struggle if his legs are going to be tired.
Against Minny he literally had no proper lift and that's also why he missed so many layups (besides obvious fouls). But when he is rested he can finish extremely tough layups.

And Bob8 is right. If Doncic can make 3/9 3pt attempts per night, that's 33%, should be enough for defenders to guard him close and make some room for his drive to the rim. I wish he would shoot around 4/10 40%, but when he is shooting poorly, his entire offense struggles. It was the same in EU as it is now. He doesn't rely on mid range game, it's either drives or long shots. So it would be awesome if he could sustain around 35-36% on 3pt shoots which would also mean an efficient 47-50 FG%. And i hope his latest struggles from the FT line are just momentary lapses.

That's just a great post.

Sent from my GT-I8200N using RealGM mobile app

[Imon]

This little girl representing Mavs fans right now.

Read on Twitter

[DJ_3_Ball]

Yeah indeed. It is becoming more and more evident that his conditioning is still miles away from what it should be. You could see in these tough back to back games. He did a lot in PHX in the 1st Q and in the 4th he was already hurting. Saw it couple of times already this season. That's why his best quarters are 1st and 3rd after he gets long breaks obviously. Rough stretch of games are coming up and i am afraid he will continue to struggle if his legs are going to be tired.
Against Minny he literally had no proper lift and that's also why he missed so many layups (besides obvious fouls). But when he is rested he can finish extremely tough layups.

I don't remember the poster or the thread, but some guy in (maybe the Luka 2nd season thread) replied to my post saying essentially "Mavs have the best offense in the league. Why change anything?!"

I don't think Luka's usage and time of possession with the ball in his hands is healthy. It needs to be dialed back 10-15% or so. It's too much. The load is massive. It's at like historical NBA all time highs.

We don't need some asshat like DSJ who can't figure out whose team this is. But, we don't need a bench full of betas either. Somebody has to be willing to step up and help out---WHEN NEEDED.

Luka doesn't get that help. And, I do not think it's his conditioning. I don't think prime Jordan could handle this load. It's too much. There's no athlete on earth that should be attempting to do what the Mavs are forcing Luka to do; what his foolish, youthful ambition probably begs & pleads to do.

Somebody has to be the adult in the room and cut back Luka's workload, even if that means some losses.

I genuinely worry about this. It's a one-way ticket to a serious injury.

Probably the second best thing Don Nelson ever did for the Mavericks, outside of drafting Dirk in the first place, was keep Dirk out of the 2003 WCF. And that wasn't easy to do. But, it proved to be an excellent move for Dirk's long term health with the franchise.

Let's think big picture here.

[leolozon]

Am I the only one thinking that he took back the weight he lost at the start of the year? In the Pelicans' game he looked a lot like he did last year, I would say even bigger...

https://www.nba.com/images/vod01/video/2019/12/07/b3d46921-d3bd-44d3-bac0-3841758ea0c3.nba_1_1280x720.jpg?w=1920&h=1080

I hope he can get in great shape eventually.

[dirkules_41]

Am I the only one thinking that he took back the weight he lost at the start of the year? In the Pelicans' game he looked a lot like he did last year, I would say even bigger...

https://www.nba.com/images/vod01/video/2019/12/07/b3d46921-d3bd-44d3-bac0-3841758ea0c3.nba_1_1280x720.jpg?w=1920&h=1080

I hope he can get in great shape eventually.

He's added bulk over the summer and got leaner, still looks that way. People are way too critical, it's mad.
But his hair is bigger and he's clean shaven now which completely changed his look

[BlueSan]

Dirk posted this in a wrong thread at first didnt you Dirk?