Dallas Mavericks 2023/24 Trade thread

[Archx]

Drafted him to play defense yet there is not a metric out there that supports him being a great or even good defender. SO again, what does he do for this team?

We as fans tend to see a young guy and build hope this hope oh he's going to be a star, or as you and others have said about Green, elite role player. He hasnt shown any of this

And the progression from his rookie year is still a tired argument. You can't possibly do worse than what Green showed his rookie year, so of course he improved.

I'm just going to link you two great (recent) articles from Grant Afseth about Green. His improvement over the years and where he can still get better. Patty Mills also had some high praise for him.

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-exclusive-josh-green-seeks-bigger-defensive-presence-year-4

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-josh-green-continues-grow-game-handoffs

The most telling part of the article is "Josh Green is coming off a career-year with the Dallas Mavericks, averaging 9.1 points, 3.0 rebounds and 1.7 assists in 60 games."

Pretty much exactly what Bullock did where we all agree he really regressed and fell off. Defensive metric not all that different by stats or eye test, and yet Josh Green is going to somehow save this team.

Bullock's defense went to ****. His On/Off was -4.7 while Green was +3.7. Drastic difference. Green also had a 64% TS to Bullocks 58%. So he was more efficient aswell.

Also, point of discussion was Green's contract, which is similar but he's also 9 years younger and still much room for improvement. It's not just numbers though. Bullock can't put the ball on the floor, is not as athletic or strong, he was a poor passer and was horrible around the rim. Literally his entire game was catch and shoot. Mavs gained much more flexibility with Green over Bullock.

Pro coaches, his teammates, Mavs top analysts and even the fans understand this. But you somehow think otherwise, i don't get it.

[ejs78]

Yes my friend, but remember to come back next year about this argument... Don't run away.
I will waiting for you and the scariest CBA of all time

Wait, of course if next year FA will not be cancelled because no owners want spend money... You know, new CBA is really scary.

Do you even understand this conversation? No one is saying the owners won't spend money.

You keep saying the CBA isn't preventing anything which isn't fully in place yet.
Your whole premise is pretty much anyone who's not in the 2nd apron is cheap which is a majority of the league.



Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Absolutely false.

Lot of posters here said that the new CBA is so scary and it will already have an effect on these past FAs, players take less money/owner paid less/etc etc.

I replied that it wouldn't be like that and I was right, some smart posters admitted the mistake... You are continuing to fight against windmills for personal pride.
You are free to continue of course but in the long run it comes off as a bit pathetic. No offense here.

Teams with 3/4 max contract say hello to you and your pride

Still waiting for you to name all the teams in the 2nd apron. Why can't you do this? Must be fighting against the windmills for personal pride.

The thing you continue to fail at understanding is yes some teams will go into that second apron but you make it sound like its many when its few. Maybe just maybe you'll see the pattern of teams going into the 2nd apron and ones trying to avoid it all, but that's slim.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[daoneandonly]

I'm just going to link you two great (recent) articles from Grant Afseth about Green. His improvement over the years and where he can still get better. Patty Mills also had some high praise for him.

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-exclusive-josh-green-seeks-bigger-defensive-presence-year-4

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-josh-green-continues-grow-game-handoffs

The most telling part of the article is "Josh Green is coming off a career-year with the Dallas Mavericks, averaging 9.1 points, 3.0 rebounds and 1.7 assists in 60 games."

Pretty much exactly what Bullock did where we all agree he really regressed and fell off. Defensive metric not all that different by stats or eye test, and yet Josh Green is going to somehow save this team.

Bullock's defense went to ****. His On/Off was -4.7 while Green was +3.7. Drastic difference. Green also had a 64% TS to Bullocks 58%. So he was more efficient aswell.

Also, point of discussion was Green's contract, which is similar but he's also 9 years younger and still much room for improvement. It's not just numbers though. Bullock can't put the ball on the floor, is not as athletic or strong, he was a poor passer and was horrible around the rim. Literally his entire game was catch and shoot. Mavs gained much more flexibility with Green over Bullock.

Pro coaches, his teammates, Mavs top analysts and even the fans understand this. But you somehow think otherwise, i don't get it.

BUllock also played almost entirely vs starters whereas Green played a ton against 2nd unit guys. But we'll just agree to disagree as neither of us can convince the other

[Archx]

The most telling part of the article is "Josh Green is coming off a career-year with the Dallas Mavericks, averaging 9.1 points, 3.0 rebounds and 1.7 assists in 60 games."

Pretty much exactly what Bullock did where we all agree he really regressed and fell off. Defensive metric not all that different by stats or eye test, and yet Josh Green is going to somehow save this team.

Bullock's defense went to ****. His On/Off was -4.7 while Green was +3.7. Drastic difference. Green also had a 64% TS to Bullocks 58%. So he was more efficient aswell.

Also, point of discussion was Green's contract, which is similar but he's also 9 years younger and still much room for improvement. It's not just numbers though. Bullock can't put the ball on the floor, is not as athletic or strong, he was a poor passer and was horrible around the rim. Literally his entire game was catch and shoot. Mavs gained much more flexibility with Green over Bullock.

Pro coaches, his teammates, Mavs top analysts and even the fans understand this. But you somehow think otherwise, i don't get it.

BUllock also played almost entirely vs starters whereas Green played a ton against 2nd unit guys. But we'll just agree to disagree as neither of us can convince the other

Mate, it doesn't matter. Go and check various NETrtg lineup combinations, Green is featured in almost all of the best ones. Like i said, various NBA and basketball experts see it, fans see it but you don't. I don't actually have to convince you about anything, it's just a plain and simple common fact.
You hated Doncic being drafted, you still hate on Green but you defend Bullock. Your basketball logic makes no sense and i'll just leave it at that.

[daoneandonly]

Bullock's defense went to ****. His On/Off was -4.7 while Green was +3.7. Drastic difference. Green also had a 64% TS to Bullocks 58%. So he was more efficient aswell.

Also, point of discussion was Green's contract, which is similar but he's also 9 years younger and still much room for improvement. It's not just numbers though. Bullock can't put the ball on the floor, is not as athletic or strong, he was a poor passer and was horrible around the rim. Literally his entire game was catch and shoot. Mavs gained much more flexibility with Green over Bullock.

Pro coaches, his teammates, Mavs top analysts and even the fans understand this. But you somehow think otherwise, i don't get it.

BUllock also played almost entirely vs starters whereas Green played a ton against 2nd unit guys. But we'll just agree to disagree as neither of us can convince the other

Mate, it doesn't matter. Go and check various NETrtg lineup combinations, Green is featured in almost all of the best ones. Like i said, various NBA and basketball experts see it, fans see it but you don't. I don't actually have to convince you about anything, it's just a plain and simple common fact.
You hated Doncic being drafted, you still hate on Green but you defend Bullock. Your basketball logic makes no sense and i'll just leave it at that.

You can keep propping up Josh all you want. I was critical of DOncic mostly because many of his fans were anointing him Larry Bird before he ever stepped foot in the country. Was I wrong about Doncic? Roughly 95% wrong yes, and glad I was. He still ahs a lack of leadership and discipline that I was worried about, but otherwise dude is a star.

Here's the thing mate, Luka proved me wrong day 1. Green on the other hand, is still a rotational bench guy. But yea, he's 22, he's going to be an elite role player. Even though the postseason he was benched the team went to the WCF. Im sure you'll defend him being taken over Maxey, Bane, and McDaniels.

[41Dirk41]

I can understand daoneandonly worries about Josh, right now he only shows that he is decent in a lot of things but not very good in anything... The contract is not too bad and not too long.

I have high hope on Green but this season he HAS to make another huge leap otherwise he will be a journey man role player like many others in NBA.

[daoneandonly]

I can understand daoneandonly worries about Josh, right now he only shows that he is decent in a lot of things but not very good in anything... The contract is not too bad and not too long.

I have high hope on Green but this season he HAS to make another huge leap otherwise he will be a journey man role player like many others in NBA.

Exactly, he's not great at any aspect of basketball and at least to me, he hasnt really even shown a willingness to put in the work to get to where a guy with his genetic athleticism can be.

[Archx]

Here's the thing mate, Luka proved me wrong day 1. Green on the other hand, is still a rotational bench guy. But yea, he's 22, he's going to be an elite role player. Even though the postseason he was benched the team went to the WCF. Im sure you'll defend him being taken over Maxey, Bane, and McDaniels.

Doesn't even matter anymore. He's in Dallas, he is what he is and we hope he will be better. You still live in the past, that's your problem. Look in to the present and future. GM's 90% of the time hand out contracts based on potential and what players (they hope) will do in the future. Green has proven that he can play, he has the stats and has the games to prove it. And he's being paid 9% of the Mavs future salary cap. 9 freaking %, that's VERY SMALL. Even if he stays a bench rotation guy, what's the issue here? His contract is very much movable and multiple teams already wanted to trade for him. So again, where is the problem?

Everyone sees it yeah, go to the T&T or General board and see hwo many ppl applaud Green like you do. Probably one of the top 2-3 Mavs fan posters on this site, Texas CHuck, even said he wished the Mavs waited because this was an overpay. But the wonderful, all knowing Arch beats all of us.

According to NBA insider Marc Stein, the Mavs are "expected to soon open contract extension talks with Green after it was agreed they would begin later in free agency." And according to ESPN's Tim MacMahon, the full Mid-Level Exception, which is $12.4 million annually, could be the "floor" for Green when it comes to his market.

Still, though, even with that added layer of protection, it would be best if the Mavs could find a way to extend Green now, especially if the annual salary is in that MLE range like MacMahon speculated on. Green making around $12 million per year for the Mavs sounds like a win-win for both sides, and if Green continues to improve in his fourth year the same way he did last season, that kind of contract could be viewed as a major bargain around this time next offseason.

So if his floor was projected to be around 12M and he got 13.7M for only 3 years... You didn't notice he didn't even get full 4 years. Which means he's either gambling on himself or Mavs firmly believe he can still improve and will get an even bigger paycheck. Win-win for all if he does drastically improve, and if not, he can easily be traded. And again, that's ONLY 9% of Mavs salary cap.

That's a pretty much great deal all around. But hey, i guess Texas Chuck forgot to tell you that. You also have to read other news outlets or blogs, not just general board lol.

[daoneandonly]

Here's the thing mate, Luka proved me wrong day 1. Green on the other hand, is still a rotational bench guy. But yea, he's 22, he's going to be an elite role player. Even though the postseason he was benched the team went to the WCF. Im sure you'll defend him being taken over Maxey, Bane, and McDaniels.

Doesn't even matter anymore. He's in Dallas, he is what he is and we hope he will be better. You still live in the past, that's your problem. Look in to the present and future. GM's 90% of the time hand out contracts based on potential and what players (they hope) will do in the future. Green has proven that he can play, he has the stats and has the games to prove it. And he's being paid 9% of the Mavs future salary cap. 9 freaking %, that's VERY SMALL. Even if he stays a bench rotation guy, what's the issue here? His contract is very much movable and multiple teams already wanted to trade for him. So again, where is the problem?

Everyone sees it yeah, go to the T&T or General board and see hwo many ppl applaud Green like you do. Probably one of the top 2-3 Mavs fan posters on this site, Texas CHuck, even said he wished the Mavs waited because this was an overpay. But the wonderful, all knowing Arch beats all of us.

According to NBA insider Marc Stein, the Mavs are "expected to soon open contract extension talks with Green after it was agreed they would begin later in free agency." And according to ESPN's Tim MacMahon, the full Mid-Level Exception, which is $12.4 million annually, could be the "floor" for Green when it comes to his market.

Still, though, even with that added layer of protection, it would be best if the Mavs could find a way to extend Green now, especially if the annual salary is in that MLE range like MacMahon speculated on. Green making around $12 million per year for the Mavs sounds like a win-win for both sides, and if Green continues to improve in his fourth year the same way he did last season, that kind of contract could be viewed as a major bargain around this time next offseason.


So if his floor was projected to be around 12M and he got 13.7M for only 3 years... You didn't notice he didn't even get full 4 years. Which means he's either gambling on himself or Mavs firmly believe he can still improve and will get an even bigger paycheck. Win-win for all if he does drastically improve, and if not, he can easily be traded. And again, that's ONLY 9% of Mavs salary cap.

That's a pretty much great deal all around. But hey, i guess Texas Chuck forgot to tell you that. You also have to read other news outlets or blogs, not just general board lol.

Its only great for the Mavs if I'm wrong about Green. So far he hasnt shown he's a player worth 14 mil a year, I dont care about percentages when we have 2 max guys on the roster, 2 picks we still owe, and THJ already overpaid for what he brings to the table.

Mavs always overpay for guys like this, Finley, Wes Matthews, THJ, and now Josh Green. Its a tired revolving door thats just frustrating that they never learn from.

[Archx]

Mavs always overpay for guys like this, Finley, Wes Matthews, THJ, and now Josh Green. Its a tired revolving door thats just frustrating that they never learn from.

I fully agree on this one. They did gave out some crazy contracts in the past and i do agree they have a bad track record with that.

But also remember, salary cap is going way up, Green's 13.7M next season will probably be below MLE. Jaylen Brown got paid 60M per year based on future salary cap raise, that's almost identical to what Giannis got recently.

13M is basically what 5M was couple of years ago. Salary cap sky rocketed in recent years. That's why i rather told you in %'s because it makes more sense. Also, look at this quote... It's absolutely insane.

Luka Doncic is on pace to make NBA history by earning $70 million in a single season through a supermax extension, contingent on earning All-NBA honors in the 2023-24 season, with the contract potentially reaching $367.5 million

[BeiBeau]

Slight overpay, but this team never seems to get things right

You defended Bullock like no other and you thought he was fine at 10M but you hate a better player in Green with a passion at 13M and 9 years younger? Makes no sense to me

Nothing he says makes since. His only personality trait is hating Josh Green for literally anything and everything. He seriously needs a hobby

[BeiBeau]

BUllock also played almost entirely vs starters whereas Green played a ton against 2nd unit guys. But we'll just agree to disagree as neither of us can convince the other

Mate, it doesn't matter. Go and check various NETrtg lineup combinations, Green is featured in almost all of the best ones. Like i said, various NBA and basketball experts see it, fans see it but you don't. I don't actually have to convince you about anything, it's just a plain and simple common fact.
You hated Doncic being drafted, you still hate on Green but you defend Bullock. Your basketball logic makes no sense and i'll just leave it at that.

You can keep propping up Josh all you want. I was critical of DOncic mostly because many of his fans were anointing him Larry Bird before he ever stepped foot in the country. Was I wrong about Doncic? Roughly 95% wrong yes, and glad I was. He still ahs a lack of leadership and discipline that I was worried about, but otherwise dude is a star.

Here's the thing mate, Luka proved me wrong day 1. Green on the other hand, is still a rotational bench guy. But yea, he's 22, he's going to be an elite role player. Even though the postseason he was benched the team went to the WCF. Im sure you'll defend him being taken over Maxey, Bane, and McDaniels.

This is always the stupidest argument of all. Yeah Dallas took him over Bane and Maxey. It’s not like those were the next guys of the board and it was a blunder. In the pre draft process that year teams clearly had Green a tier above those guys or else they wouldnt have been taken 6 to 14 picks after him. Yeah those guys are better now. But it’s not like Dallas was the only morons, every team that draft could’ve gotten those 3. Half the league could’ve picked better players.

Josh has still out played his draft position and has gotten better every season. Who cares if he didn’t play in the WCF run? He was a worse player then and is better now.

Just asumir you’re a hater and move on. The entire internet would be a better place if you would quit crying yourself to sleep at night over Green.

[Mavrelous]

I too disagree with DOAO opinion on Green l, but let's keep it about the player not the poster.

[daoneandonly]

I too disagree with DOAO opinion on Green l, but let's keep it about the player not the poster.

Thanks

DOn't even need to respond or read what the guy posted:

BeiBeau, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.
Display this post.

[41Dirk41]

Regardless of how long the Hawks were trying to trade him the team had orders to get under the luxury tax and will still be looking to move more salary with the contracts they are handing out. How many teams are currently over the 2nd tax apron.... I love how you call me a naive poster when you purposely misquote Stein about DJJ starting so it can fit a narrative of yours to crap on the team for no reason. Great work once again

Excellent comparison of 2 topics with completely different specific weight... bad sign

we'll see you again at the next FA to see what other excuses you'll find

Good job at answering how many teams are over the 2nd apron and guess bringing in the DJJ starting was over your head...which happens alot

So... DJJ started... Who is the clown now???


What a history of failure posts you have against me, you was wrong. AGAIN

Clown for life... Or ejs78 for life. It's the same

[ejs78]

Excellent comparison of 2 topics with completely different specific weight... bad sign

we'll see you again at the next FA to see what other excuses you'll find

Good job at answering how many teams are over the 2nd apron and guess bringing in the DJJ starting was over your head...which happens alot

So... DJJ started... Who is the clown now???


What a history of failure posts you have against me, you was wrong. AGAIN

Clown for life... Or ejs78 for life. It's the same

Lets go over this step by step proving how big of a CLOWN you are:

First you misquote Marc Stein by saying DJJ WOULD BE THE STARTER just so you could crap on the team when his actual comment was DJJ is in CONTENTION TO START in which I shared a link with his quote since you wanted to lead others into thinking this was 100% fact.

Second I call you about about this direct misquote and you then say Marc Stein whos a very credible reporter put out an erroneous report when he did not and it was you who put out a bogus statement.

And now the dumbest comeback ever you are now trying to act like you were correct about DJJ starting after saying the report which you misrepresented to begin with and then called erroneous happened



Once again 41Dirk41 continues to amaze us all with his clown show. Let me know when you want to discuss this 20+ second apron tax teams you keep beating your chest about HA

[BeiBeau]

Good job at answering how many teams are over the 2nd apron and guess bringing in the DJJ starting was over your head...which happens alot

So... DJJ started... Who is the clown now???


What a history of failure posts you have against me, you was wrong. AGAIN

Clown for life... Or ejs78 for life. It's the same

Lets go over this step by step proving how big of a CLOWN you are:

First you misquote Marc Stein by saying DJJ WOULD BE THE STARTER just so you could crap on the team when his actual comment was DJJ is in CONTENTION TO START in which I shared a link with his quote since you wanted to lead others into thinking this was 100% fact.

Second I call you about about this direct misquote and you then say Marc Stein whos a very credible reporter put out an erroneous report when he did not and it was you who put out a bogus statement.

And now the dumbest comeback ever you are now trying to act like you were correct about DJJ starting after saying the report which you misrepresented to begin with and then called erroneous happened



Once again 41Dirk41 continues to amaze us all with his clown show. Let me know when you want to discuss this 20+ second apron tax teams you keep beating your chest about HA

Anyone who payed attention to that game would clearly say Green was the starter. Yes DJJ started the game court but Green played much better and 3 times as many minutes.

Playing like that Jones won’t start for very long. If Kidd is smart he won’t start on Friday.

You can’t take 41Dirk41 spamming emoji’s personally. It’s his way of saying that he lost the argument and has nothing to contribute so he spams emojis so that people will look at his post cause he needs attention.

[41Dirk41]

So... DJJ started... Who is the clown now???


What a history of failure posts you have against me, you was wrong. AGAIN

Clown for life... Or ejs78 for life. It's the same

Lets go over this step by step proving how big of a CLOWN you are:

First you misquote Marc Stein by saying DJJ WOULD BE THE STARTER just so you could crap on the team when his actual comment was DJJ is in CONTENTION TO START in which I shared a link with his quote since you wanted to lead others into thinking this was 100% fact.

Second I call you about about this direct misquote and you then say Marc Stein whos a very credible reporter put out an erroneous report when he did not and it was you who put out a bogus statement.

And now the dumbest comeback ever you are now trying to act like you were correct about DJJ starting after saying the report which you misrepresented to begin with and then called erroneous happened



Once again 41Dirk41 continues to amaze us all with his clown show. Let me know when you want to discuss this 20+ second apron tax teams you keep beating your chest about HA

Anyone who payed attention to that game would clearly say Green was the starter. Yes DJJ started the game court but Green played much better and 3 times as many minutes.

Playing like that Jones won’t start for very long. If Kidd is smart he won’t start on Friday.

You can’t take 41Dirk41 spamming emoji’s personally. It’s his way of saying that he lost the argument and has nothing to contribute so he spams emojis so that people will look at his post cause he needs attention.

Oh well, the Powell lover is coming... You two are a great duo

[41Dirk41]

Good job at answering how many teams are over the 2nd apron and guess bringing in the DJJ starting was over your head...which happens alot

So... DJJ started... Who is the clown now???


What a history of failure posts you have against me, you was wrong. AGAIN

Clown for life... Or ejs78 for life. It's the same

Lets go over this step by step proving how big of a CLOWN you are:

First you misquote Marc Stein by saying DJJ WOULD BE THE STARTER just so you could crap on the team when his actual comment was DJJ is in CONTENTION TO START in which I shared a link with his quote since you wanted to lead others into thinking this was 100% fact.

Second I call you about about this direct misquote and you then say Marc Stein whos a very credible reporter put out an erroneous report when he did not and it was you who put out a bogus statement.

And now the dumbest comeback ever you are now trying to act like you were correct about DJJ starting after saying the report which you misrepresented to begin with and then called erroneous happened



Once again 41Dirk41 continues to amaze us all with his clown show. Let me know when you want to discuss this 20+ second apron tax teams you keep beating your chest about HA

You tried to foolish me for a wrong reported rumor but at the of the days i was right anyway
I can't be wrong, sorry...Your battle is against windmills

I know it hurts but you wrong again... And again... And again... And about the new CBA you will be wrong again for sure... You are a funny kid, take the ball and make some play. Come on

Next time I'll try to write that donkeys fly so you can be right 1 time in your life... That's a try, I can't assure you anything.

[ejs78]

So... DJJ started... Who is the clown now???


What a history of failure posts you have against me, you was wrong. AGAIN

Clown for life... Or ejs78 for life. It's the same

Lets go over this step by step proving how big of a CLOWN you are:

First you misquote Marc Stein by saying DJJ WOULD BE THE STARTER just so you could crap on the team when his actual comment was DJJ is in CONTENTION TO START in which I shared a link with his quote since you wanted to lead others into thinking this was 100% fact.

Second I call you about about this direct misquote and you then say Marc Stein whos a very credible reporter put out an erroneous report when he did not and it was you who put out a bogus statement.

And now the dumbest comeback ever you are now trying to act like you were correct about DJJ starting after saying the report which you misrepresented to begin with and then called erroneous happened



Once again 41Dirk41 continues to amaze us all with his clown show. Let me know when you want to discuss this 20+ second apron tax teams you keep beating your chest about HA

You tried to foolish me for a wrong reported rumor but at the of the days i was right anyway
I can't be wrong, sorry...Your battle is against windmills

I know it hurts but you wrong again... And again... And again... And about the new CBA you will be wrong again for sure... You are a funny kid, take the ball and make some play. Come on

Next time I'll try to write that donkeys fly so you can be right 1 time in your life... That's a try, I can't assure you anything.

Why do you want to keep embarrassing yourself like this? I outlined the whole thing about you misrepresenting the Stein article and you are now taking credit for doing that and calling it erroneous. You admitting you were wrong while claiming you were right is only something a clown would do.

I have asked you several times to give me the list of teams in the 2nd tax apron and you have provided NOTHING

You keep claiming to be right on several things and then provide ZERO is your MO. Take the GIANT L and go home