Trade Discussion 22/23

[DJ_3_Ball]

Would Jalen Brunson, Josh Green, and 2 future 1st round picks (top 5 protected) + Dwight Powell for salary matching reasons get us in the ballpark for Buddy Hield? I think it might be, heavy emphasis on might be, something the Kings would consider. Likely, only if they don't get a better offer before the trade deadline.

What? Hield is one of the worst contracts in the league and have no real intrest in adding him. And thats the biggest overpay ive seen on any forum, its like selling luka for a 2nd wrong. Powell+boban+burke and no picks is more in hields value, and im not even 100% sure I would do that. Your valuation of hield is way off. If we had an expiring that could match kings would take that right away. But no franchise thinks he is worth even that

Buddy Hield - 3 more years for $63 mil (an average of $21 mil per year, and the money de-escalates). Last 3 years Hield has averaged 18.8 ppg with a (non-weighted) 40.4% 3PM, which is nearly identical to his career 3PM at 40.6%

Tim Hardaway Jr - 4 more years for $84 mil (an average of $21 mil per year, and the money de-escalates). Last 3 years THJ has averaged 16.0 ppg with a (non-weighted) 37.4% 3PM.


Hield scores 2-3 more points per game than THJ, but takes about 2-3 more shots per game too. They're essentially the same player. Hield is 28 yrs old. THJ is 29 yrs old. Only there is one BIG difference. THJ has Luka feeding him the ball, creating open looks for him. Hield has never had that in his career, a playmaker like Luka. Look at THJ's 3PM %s before & after the Mavericks, and then ask yourself if Luka creating looks for Hield would make a difference for him too.

Also, if Hield is one of the worst contracts in the league, than what is your opinion of THJ's contract?

[DJ_3_Ball]

Everybody is saying the 1st rounders are too much. I'm a guy who really loves upside & potential, so I'd be inclined to agree.

However, the Mavs are never picking below 20th in the NBA draft as long as they have Luka, and they'll likely pick 25th or later. You could say something like Rudy Gobert was picked at 27th or give another dozen examples of draft picks taken in that area of the draft. I'd ask you, "When was the last time you knew the Mavericks to be capable of picking a quality player late in the draft?"

I can only think of 1 player in the past 25+ years that fits that description. Jalen Brunson in the 2nd round with the 33rd pick.

Losing the first rounders is more about giving up those trade assets than what the picks are likely to be worth. If the Mavs actually kept those picks and drafted, we'd likely only being getting 2 players on par with Harry Giles (20th overall) and Nassir Little (25th overall). Anybody going to lose sleep over not having 2 players like that on your roster?

Maybe Sacramento would be thrilled to get rid of Hield. That's likely the type of team and asset the Mavs can do business with. It's not going to be a Ben Simmons situation where a dozen teams are interested & the Mavs make the best offer. We don't have the assets. We have just enough to make a situation like Buddy Hield work, a situation where the team wants to move the player for a price we can afford & that player has more value to our team than say the recent rumors of adding Jeremy Lamb or some other player off the garbage heap.

2 things on Hield. First, I'd like to see what Luka can do when he has THJ & a sharpshooter like Hield on either side of him. Would like to see what Luka & KP/Powell/Moses Brown etc. can do with that extra space. Put Sterling Brown or Reggie Bullock out there too. 3 lethal 3 pt shooters and Luka with a big to run the PnR. We haven't seen that system with this quality of shooters surrounding Luka. If say Moses Brown developed into a rim running big like Jarrett Allen for example & Luka had THJ, Bullock & another 3pt sharpshooter all shooting 39% 3PM or better, then they might be an offense that just can't be stopped by anyone.

Second if you think Hield's contract is outrageously high, then I wonder what you're going to think of Brunson's next contract. That's why I'm ok with moving Brunson. I don't want to be on the hook for his next contract which will start next season.

[Maverick41]

However, the Mavs are never picking below 20th in the NBA draft as long as they have Luka, and they'll likely pick 25th or later. You could say something like Rudy Gobert was picked at 27th or give another dozen examples of draft picks taken in that area of the draft. I'd ask you, "When was the last time you knew the Mavericks to be capable of picking a quality player late in the draft?"

I can only think of 1 player in the past 25+ years that fits that description. Jalen Brunson in the 2nd round with the 33rd pick.

Josh Howard.

For the most part, I agree that the likelihood of a player late in the draft being a quality player is low BUT the issue with trading the 2 FRPs for me in your trade scenario is that it would effectively deplete of us all our trade assets for years to come and make it practically impossible to trade for a better player later. I'm willing to deplete assets for a star but Buddy isn't that.

[Apz]

Would Jalen Brunson, Josh Green, and 2 future 1st round picks (top 5 protected) + Dwight Powell for salary matching reasons get us in the ballpark for Buddy Hield? I think it might be, heavy emphasis on might be, something the Kings would consider. Likely, only if they don't get a better offer before the trade deadline.

What? Hield is one of the worst contracts in the league and have no real intrest in adding him. And thats the biggest overpay ive seen on any forum, its like selling luka for a 2nd wrong. Powell+boban+burke and no picks is more in hields value, and im not even 100% sure I would do that. Your valuation of hield is way off. If we had an expiring that could match kings would take that right away. But no franchise thinks he is worth even that

Buddy Hield - 3 more years for $63 mil (an average of $21 mil per year, and the money de-escalates). Last 3 years Hield has averaged 18.8 ppg with a (non-weighted) 40.4% 3PM, which is nearly identical to his career 3PM at 40.6%

Tim Hardaway Jr - 4 more years for $84 mil (an average of $21 mil per year, and the money de-escalates). Last 3 years THJ has averaged 16.0 ppg with a (non-weighted) 37.4% 3PM.


Hield scores 2-3 more points per game than THJ, but takes about 2-3 more shots per game too. They're essentially the same player. Hield is 28 yrs old. THJ is 29 yrs old. Only there is one BIG difference. THJ has Luka feeding him the ball, creating open looks for him. Hield has never had that in his career, a playmaker like Luka. Look at THJ's 3PM %s before & after the Mavericks, and then ask yourself if Luka creating looks for Hield would make a difference for him too.

Also, if Hield is one of the worst contracts in the league, than what is your opinion of THJ's contract?

U miss why noone want him tho. He shoots the 3 and the rest he might as well go sit on the bench when opposition have the ball. Seth is 10 times the defender. THJ might not be the best defender, but atleast he tries hard. So yeah, I prefer paying thj a little less then hield since he isnt unplayable, and on top of that, thj came off the bench because it was the best for the team. When hiekd were asked for that he got grumpy and complained even tho he had a clearly better player infront of him.

We need to keep our 1sts incase something comes up. Cant hand them out for roleplayers

[DJ_3_Ball]

U miss why noone want him tho. He shoots the 3 and the rest he might as well go sit on the bench when opposition have the ball. Seth is 10 times the defender. THJ might not be the best defender, but atleast he tries hard. So yeah, I prefer paying thj a little less then hield since he isnt unplayable, and on top of that, thj came off the bench because it was the best for the team. When hiekd were asked for that he got grumpy and complained even tho he had a clearly better player infront of him.

We need to keep our 1sts incase something comes up. Cant hand them out for roleplayers

I might be too high on Hield, but you're too low on him.

I'm not even talking about Hield. I'm talking about someone like him. Although, I do remember a stat last season that flashed up during a Ringer video I was watching. I think it was the Ringer. Anyways, it basically said that in the past 3 seasons only 4 players had hit certain threshold on 3pt shooting. I think it was number of makes per season and 3pt shooting percentage. Maybe 250 plus makes per season and over 39% shooting. That list was Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Duncan Robinson, and Buddy Hield. Not bad company.

Bottom line.

Mavs don't have a good history with drafting at the back of the draft.

Mavs don't have a good history signing quality FAs.

Mavs don't have a great history of making trades that clearly improve the team.


That means the Mavs aren't going to be in discussions for who you or I want. It means they're going to be in discussions for who we can get.

Now, the good news is. I think Luka Doncic is so **** good that even adding a role player like Hield, or Malik Beasley or TJ Warren or someone along those lines. Not untouchable players. Reasonable acquistions. If Luka gets even a teaspoon worth of help from our Front Office, he's so **** good that he's capable of doing the rest. And once he shows that, players will come to Dallas. Nobody went to Milwaukee until they made the ECF. That's where the Mavs need to go. The WCF. And then things get easier.

[41Dirk41]

The focal point isn't who is better between THJ and Hield, if we can add Hield without lose THJ this is terrific.
When THJ is cold Kidd can put Hield on the court...immagine the Clips series with him.

Adding talent is ever a good thing... Markaneen, Hield, Dragic ecc ecc.

[Mavrelous]

Back when Mavs had cap space, I wanted to trade Powell + Bruke for Heild, and not resigh THJ, this way yo keep 26 million in cap space and replace THJ with Hield (I think THJ is better team player and has some game off the dribble HIeld doesn't have, OTOH Hield is a more reliable shooter).
I think Powell + Green + WCS + 2nd gets you Hield or Powell + Burke + Green + 2nd and eating Tristan Thompson into TPE, I'd do both deals TBH.

[41Dirk41]

Me too...

[DJ_3_Ball]

The focal point isn't who is better between THJ and Hield, if we can add Hield without lose THJ this is terrific.
When THJ is cold Kidd can put Hield on the court...immagine the Clips series with him.

Adding talent is ever a good thing... Markaneen, Hield, Dragic ecc ecc.

Exactly. It's the cumulative effect.

Give me THJ/Bullock/Hield >>> THJ/DFS/Josh Richardson

No contest

[LAL1947]

The focal point isn't who is better between THJ and Hield, if we can add Hield without lose THJ this is terrific.
When THJ is cold Kidd can put Hield on the court...immagine the Clips series with him.

Adding talent is ever a good thing... Markaneen, Hield, Dragic ecc ecc.

Exactly. It's the cumulative effect.

Give me THJ/Bullock/Hield >>> THJ/DFS/Josh Richardson

No contest

What I don't like about it is it's a short term move and signing a Malik Monk or Ben McLemore would likely give a similar impact on the court. Malik Monk ended up signing up with the Lakers for the Vet Min.

In general, I think it's better to keep FRPs... unless trading for a star or a vital piece that is missing. There's good value to be had, if the FO can get their scouting/drafting together and do some work, for a change. There have been quite a few recent picks in the 20-30 range that were top recruits out of high school, who fell for different reasons during their 1 year in college... but are already impressing and could have been great for the Mavs in the long-term.

How much would it cost to trade for any of these 10 guys right now?

2020:
Jaden McDaniels
Tyrese Maxey
Immanuel Quickley
Desmond Bane
Precious Achiuwa

2019:
Keldon Johnson
KPJ
Thybulle
Nic Claxton
Darius Bazley

And how much will these 6 from 2021 be worth in a year or two?

Jalen Johnson
Isaiah Jackson
Garuba
Josh Christopher
Quentin Grimes
Cam Thomas

[LAL1947]

Tre Murphy III is looking good at the Pelicans. 12/19 from 3 through two preseason games. He's another name I'd brought up when someone had mentioned a KP - Jonas swap. Tre is supposed to be an SG but can also be used as an SF due to his size. He'd be a really good value add to the roster IMO.

If it's possible to make a deal, the Mavs should offer them Brunson + something (Terry?, Moses?, 2nds?) for Tre... since he will likely be buried in their rotation behind Zion, Ingram, NAW, Hart, Naji, Kira... for this season anyway. They may be open to it, since Brunson has value and would be nice to have in case Graham doesn't work out for them at PG. Probably need to strike quick though.

[41Dirk41]

Our FO can't draft, FRP are useless.

[LAL1947]

I'm bored... so here's my convoluted attempt at building the type of roster I'd like to see around Luka.

PG: Luka, Dragic, Burke
SG: THJ, Bullock, Sterling
SF: DFS, Murphy
PF: McDaniels, Kleber, Hunt
CE: Jonas, WCS, Sims, Boban
+ McLaughlin, Omoruyi

Dallas
In: Jonas, McDaniels, Tre Murphy, Dragic, Sims
Out: Porzingis, Powell, Green, Terry, Moses, 1 unprotected FRP, 1 SRP

Philly
In: Satoransky, Brunson, Beasley, T Prince, 1x Dallas FRP, 2x Minny FRPs
Out: Simmons, Springer, Reed

Minnesota
In: Simmons, Springer
Out: Beasley, McDaniels, T Prince, 2 protected FRPs

Pelicans
In: Porzingis, Reed
Out: Jonas, Satoransky, Tre Murphy

Toronto
In: Powell, Green, Terry
Out: Dragic

Knicks
In: Moses, Dallas SRP
Out: Sims

Bonus: This involves 6 teams... and could involve 7 if the 76ers can trade those pieces for Beal... easily beating Dinwiddie's 5-team trade.

For 2022-23, I'd cut/trade Boban and Burke. McLaughlin and Omoruyi get promoted to the first team. Tre will be groomed as a 3&D SF. The focus on improving the roster shifts to finding... 1) a PG replacement for Dragic who isn't 6'0"-6'1" (someone like Herro, Anfernee)... and 2) a young 6'4"-6'7" SG improvement on Bullock/Sterling with a few more tricks in his bag than just 3&D (someone like NAW)... who won't cost an arm and a leg, and can be absorbed into the $10.5m TPE before it expires, or signed with next season's MLE.

[Mike lorenzo]

What about Thad Young ?? .. If we are going to play 2 big ... Thad should complement well with KP..bounce, pass and work the paint ... Basically what KP does not do or you do not want him to do .. He is 33 years old and is expiring .. I don't think he is very valuable for Spurs in reconstruction .. Another guy that seems like a good target is the Facu Campazzo, he is a familiar face of Luka and a very good floor general for the 2nd unit. He is rude, very good passer.

Spurs
In: MBrown / Green
Out: Thad
They save a ton and get a couple of leads

Denver
In: WCS
Out: Facu
they are loaded with guards..Morris / Rivers / Hyland / Howard..Murray and lack a defensive 5

NOP
In: Burke / 2 round
Out: Nothing ..
get Burke on the TPE Melli and a 2

Mavs
In: Thad / Facu (TPE)
Out: WCS / Burke / Brown / Green / 2 Round

We balance the roster

Thad/Maxi/Boban
KP/Bullock/Powell
DFS/Brown
THJ/Brunson
Luka/Facu/Terry

[41Dirk41]

Every trade where we flip Green, Brunson, WCS and Powell for a quality player is good.

[Apz]

Every trade where we flip Green, Brunson, WCS and Powell for a quality player is good.

Still havent seen any of those tho

[LAL1947]

I think it could be nice to get in on the Simmons trade, even indirectly. For example... Minny is offering players that Philly doesn't want. Dallas could get in on that by sending Porzingis to San Antonio for Dejounte, Poeltl, Lonnie. I'm assuming Dejounte doesn't fit with Luka (could be wrong about that)... so Dallas could join the Minny-Philly party to get Jaden McDaniels instead. Having 4 teams take part makes it easier to add pieces to balance things out for each team. Here's what I mean... it will require a lot of negotiating though.

Philly
In: Dejounte, Beasley, Prince, 2 unprotected Minny FRPs
Out: Simmons, Milton

Dejounte/Maxey, Beasley/Curry, Green/Thybulle, Harris/Prince, Embiid/Drummond
+ Springer, Harrison, Korkmaz, Reed, Bassey
---
Minnesota
In: Simmons, Burke
Out: Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, 2 unprotected FRPs

PatBev/Burke, D'lo/Nowell, Edwards/Okogie, Simmons/Vanderbilt, KAT/Reid

If Minny wants another PF, SAS can agree to cut Aminu for Minny to pick up with their NTMLE. Dallas could also send Green instead of Burke if they prefer.
---
San Antonio
In: Porzingis, Milton
Out: Dejounte, Lonnie, Poeltl

White/Milton, Vassell/Forbes, Keldon/McDermott, Thad/Samanic, Porzingis/Landale
---
Dallas
In: Lonnie, Poeltl, McDaniels
Out: Porzingis, Burke

Dallas will have too many players... so rather than wait for Toronto to buy out Dragic and risk him going elsewhere... send Powell, Green, Terry there to guarantee Dragic.

Luka/Dragic, THJ/Lonnie, DFS/Bullock, McDaniels/Kleber, Poeltl/WCS
+ Brunson, McLaughlin, Sterling, Omoruyi, Hunt, Moses, Boban

Would y'all be down with that?

[41Dirk41]

Every trade where we flip Green, Brunson, WCS and Powell for a quality player is good.

Still havent seen any of those tho

Because it's impossible

[Apz]

I think it could be nice to get in on the Simmons trade, even indirectly. For example... Minny is offering players that Philly doesn't want. Dallas could get in on that by sending Porzingis to San Antonio for Dejounte, Poeltl, Lonnie. I'm assuming Dejounte doesn't fit with Luka (could be wrong about that)... so Dallas could join the Minny-Philly party to get Jaden McDaniels instead. Having 4 teams take part makes it easier to add pieces to balance things out for each team. Here's what I mean... it will require a lot of negotiating though.

Philly
In: Dejounte, Beasley, Prince, 2 unprotected Minny FRPs
Out: Simmons, Milton

Dejounte/Maxey, Beasley/Curry, Green/Thybulle, Harris/Prince, Embiid/Drummond
+ Springer, Harrison, Korkmaz, Reed, Bassey
---
Minnesota
In: Simmons, Burke
Out: Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, 2 unprotected FRPs

PatBev/Burke, D'lo/Nowell, Edwards/Okogie, Simmons/Vanderbilt, KAT/Reid

If Minny wants another PF, SAS can agree to cut Aminu for Minny to pick up with their NTMLE. Dallas could also send Green instead of Burke if they prefer.
---
San Antonio
In: Porzingis, Milton
Out: Dejounte, Lonnie, Poeltl

White/Milton, Vassell/Forbes, Keldon/McDermott, Thad/Samanic, Porzingis/Landale
---
Dallas
In: Lonnie, Poeltl, McDaniels
Out: Porzingis, Burke

Dallas will have too many players... so rather than wait for Toronto to buy out Dragic and risk him going elsewhere... send Powell, Green, Terry there to guarantee Dragic.

Luka/Dragic, THJ/Lonnie, DFS/Bullock, McDaniels/Kleber, Poeltl/WCS
+ Brunson, McLaughlin, Sterling, Omoruyi, Hunt, Moses, Boban

Would y'all be down with that?

Problem is that KP is in another tier. A bunch of roleplayers wont get some team him, and mavs shouldnt release him for it. None of them really rocks the boat for mavs and lowers mavs ceiling a lot.

[gottamakeit]

If anyone expresses the slightest bit of trade interest in Josh Green, i think we should hop on it.
The guy hasn't added anything to his game. He can't space the floor as a 3pt threat. nor does he know what to so with the ball once he catches it. waste of a roster spot and salary.
Toronto might be interested in him.....
What a failure of a franchise we are at drafting non-European talent.