Archx wrote:DJ_3_Ball wrote:Archx wrote:Tanking on paper looks promising to get promising prospects but even then if you do get a high draft pick, there are chances you will still mess that up. That's why Mavs and even Spurs are smart enough to understand that real rebuild happens through free agency and trades.
Tell that to Philadelphia. If Sam Hinkie hadn't come along, they'd likely be the Charlotte Hornets 2.0, with Jrue Holiday playing the role of Kemba Walker. A great player leading a cast of nobodies to the 8th seed & a 1st round exit every year, or missing the playoffs altogether.
Instead, they were horrible for 4-5 years, and know they are able to trade for & sign FAs. There's excitement in Philadelphia. They were 1 bounce away from the ECF.
They don't get their hands on Embiid or Simmons without it. From the time Charles Barkely left Philadelphia, how many big name or even medium level FAs signed in Philly? And, they had Allen Iverson at one point (who they got in the draft). And, they're a big market, but nobody likes Philly because it's not sexy.
Eh, I guess they did sign Elton Brand. At the time he was a big name. So, I'll give you that, but you ask Philadelphia fans if they're upset with The Process. I bet you won't find one fan who dislikes it.
Obviously there are exceptions but how many times do those teams get lucky with tanking though?
... Lakers were extremely lucky, Cavs and Boston? But before that, there were a lot of trades involved which lead to those picks as well. But outside of LAL and Boston, teams are mostly still looking for huge upgrades. Mavs on the other hand hit a jackpot. And i would argue that was only because 2018 draft was really loaded, still Suns, Kings, ATL are all out of playoffs. MEM is doing good and NOLA will be good once Zion comes back.
So, all in all there are obviously exceptions but like i said, a ton of things have to go right in order to justify tanking or even risk losing players and prominent FA's due to rebuilding process.
Yeah, definitely. It's been all said in this thread already but I'm just going to recap.
1. If the organization is making moves that make team strong in long run, but weaker right now, I have no problem with that. For me tanking is losing on purpose right now without any benefit other than having as bad record as possible.
2. I think that there is a good chance that all degenerate gamblers love constant tanking. It's simply the same mentality - going for that dream jackpot, regardless of what other consequences there might be.
3. When we talk about chances not being there, you have to take the entire chain into account. First of all, just because you are tanking, doesn't mean that you will lose the game. Second, just because you lost few games doesn't mean that you will lose a place in the standings. Next, just because you lose a place in the standings doesn't mean that you will have better chance at winning the lottery. In fact it is possible that had you stayed in the higher spot, you would have won the lottery and because you dropped two places you didn't win. Good example is the last draft. The best spots after all is said and one was not worst and second worst team in the league, it was 7th and 8th worst record in the league. Both, Pelicans and Grizzlies had identical win record as Mavs did, and won the lottery. It could have been Mavs, easily. In fact the chances that Knicks would have kept number one spot were very low.
Next, even if you actually have gained a "guaranteed" better drafting spot, it's very likely that you are not going to pick the best available player. In fact it's possible that had you picked one spot later, you'd have picked a better player. And if you pick the player with highest talent... who knows what happens with Zion, his injuries might prove to be too much too handle.
So when you add all this together, I think it becomes much clearer how flawed tanking is. It gives this false impression that tanking = good, no questions asked.
4. There is a thing called winning culture and I respect Cuban for going for it. There is a thing called winning, and Mavs are one of the most winningest teams in the league. In last 15 years Dallas is only behind Spurs and Rockets in number of wins. (all from Texas, interesting) Some strong teams also Heat, Celtics, Nuggets and Warriors. Strong franchises. I'll tell you who is in the bottom six: 76'ers, Hornets, Nets, Knicks, Kings, Wolves. **** franchises. Nets are a special case, but other seem to be franchises that players are running away from. Yes, even Philly. Why didn't Butler stay there? Many reports, many guesses, but I know one thing. If you ask anyone who is more committed to winning, Heat or 76'ers, I don't think there is any doubt it's the former. Fans always wondering, why Riley is able to do some pretty crazy stuff so often. It's amazing to me how people don't seem to understand that players don't want to play for losing teams. If nothing else, it's bad for their personal record. But it's much more than that.
Aren't you two suppose to be on the same side? 
... Lakers were extremely lucky, Cavs and Boston? But before that, there were a lot of trades involved which lead to those picks as well. But outside of LAL and Boston, teams are mostly still looking for huge upgrades. Mavs on the other hand hit a jackpot. And i would argue that was only because 2018 draft was really loaded, still Suns, Kings, ATL are all out of playoffs. MEM is doing good and NOLA will be good once Zion comes back. 
