ESPN: Diop for full MLE

[mrmreg]

I think we have a right to be negative when all signs point to another failed offseason, especially for a team with a 1 year window (IF THAT) and full of overpaid role players with bad contracts.

I guess I had higher hopes when Donnie mentioned being "creative" you know I thought they would actually address our huge gap at SG and need for some low post scoring.

I just have to believe they have something else in mind for the SG postion. They must have surveyed the available FAs and come to the conclusion that there was no one willing to take MLE money who would be a legit starting SG (I assume Magette said no thanks). That being the case, they decided to do what needed to be done to shore up the 2nd biggest need.

As for Donnie being "creative" I totally agree that bringing back a guy who was here before, adding a 2nd round pick, and signing a guy who was has thus far been a big bust, doesn't really stirke me as any real creative solution.

So what can be done about the SG role? Cuban commented recently that teams wanted to give the 10 cents on the dollar for Josh, so I sort of assume he isn't being traded (although the comment also means they're listening to offers). Bass is about the only other commodity they have. The fact that he's only under contract for 1 year with no Bird rights to transfer has to limit his value. Maybe they find a team looking to dump salary and take Stack's 1 year deal back? A handful of teams seem to want to get way under the cap by 2010, so maybe one of those ships a guy to the Mavs for cap savings.

If they go to camp with this team as it is (plus various summer league all-stars) then IMO they have really made a big mistake in not just blowing the thing up and reloading.

[from_ro_to_dirk]

what a load of ****. now the only chance of Maggette is to basically trade Terry, if Clips get even more spend happy. but why not have both? anyways, he prolly had no interest in coming here. could be based on the general perception that the Mavs lack toughness and balls.

but if Diop so desperately wanted to come back here they should have been able to get him a little cheaper. maybe for $4 million and use the rest on someone like Barnes or Pietrus for just a one year deal to get them to accept.

[mrmreg]

Now hold on a sec ppp, let's look at what we have OFFICIALLY right now.

Kidd/Terry/Barea
Foster/Green/Jones
Howard/Stack/George
Dirk/Bass/
Damp/Diop/

The HUGE problem with that is:

Foster/Green/Jones

This is a team that we're lead to believe fancies itself a legit contender. Not saying I think they are, but based on they're action (inaction) they must, and as of now, the guy you're penciling in as the starting SG is a recently drafted, late 2nd round pick??? Maybe this guy is a steal. More likely he doesn't belong on an NBA roster (based on most 2nd rounders). The fact that all the other options are so bad that anyone would reasonably suggest this dude could start points out just how awful they are at this spot. And, they have no MLE money left, and really not much of anything in the way of tradeable assets.

I have to hope Donnie has something up his sleeve. His daddy would have. All the knocks on Don Nelson we hear around here, but with him gone the Mavs seem more and more to be reverting to the pre-Don Mavs.

[MainEv3nt]

Now hold on a sec ppp, let's look at what we have OFFICIALLY right now.

Kidd/Terry/Barea
Foster/Green/Jones
Howard/Stack/George
Dirk/Bass/
Damp/Diop/

The HUGE problem with that is:

Foster/Green/Jones

This is a team that we're lead to believe fancies itself a legit contender. Not saying I think they are, but based on they're action (inaction) they must, and as of now, the guy you're penciling in as the starting SG is a recently drafted, late 2nd round pick??? Maybe this guy is a steal. More likely he doesn't belong on an NBA roster (based on most 2nd rounders). The fact that all the other options are so bad that anyone would reasonably suggest this dude could start points out just how awful they are at this spot. And, they have no MLE money left, and really not much of anything in the way of tradeable assets.

I have to hope Donnie has something up his sleeve. His daddy would have. All the knocks on Don Nelson we hear around here, but with him gone the Mavs seem more and more to be reverting to the pre-Don Mavs.

manu, redd, arenas were 2nd round picks 2.

[ppp000]

Jones would start over Foster and definitely Green. That's a scary SG rotation right there. So scary, the other team will be laughing the whole time playing us.

Even if Foster is a steal, that would mean he would pan out a few years from now. Don't tell me a late second rounder can be a starting or contributing SG his first year on a team trying to contend for a championship within the next year when they made the JKidd trade? Hilarious.

[your_dallas_mavericks]

I say let the Spurs sign Maggette. Read this...

“He’s going to take a lot of the offensive load off (Manu) Ginobili, but (Spurs coach Gregg) Popovich will have to hide him defensively on the floor,” a Western Conference scout said Tuesday night.

taken from here.

It's like when Shaq came to the Suns and they had to completely change the way they played. Maggette will be limited and become a hole defensively for the Spurs. They will have to have either Bowen or Udoka on the floor at all times Maggette is playing to compensate defensively. Maggette handcuffs the Spurs, so I say let them have him !

There is another thought I have had. There are four SGs we have mentioned. Maggette, R. Davis, Azubuike*, and JR Smith*. San Antone has put all its eggs in one basket with Maggette. This leaves the other ones wide open. Most teams with lots of cap room are going after restricted FAs. What we could offer is a bunch of players in a sign and trade.

This could be a possibility:
Stack
Jones S&T
Bass

for

Najera
JR Smith

This would allow us to have Wright on the roster.
Kidd/Terry/Barea
JR Smith/Green/Foster
Howard/George/Wright
Dirk/Najera/Pops?
Damp/Diop/3rd Center

This would highly improve the offseason.

[Rand10]

Nets talked to George

Anyway, you want names, so here are the names they called about today, all confirmed by the agents themselves:

Wings - Pietrus, Posey, Nachbar, Matt Barnes, Devean George, Jarvis Hayes.

[ppp000]

First of all, Maggette is not THAT BAD defensively. He can't be worse that Jason Terry.

Secondly, the Spurs lack the type of scoring he can provide. Scoring has always been their problem, never defense. And if Poppovich made Tony Parker a somewhat decent defender, he can sure as hell find ways to compensate for or make Maggette a decent one.

And the Suns gave up Marion and played a type of style that was not conducive to playoff success. The spurs are one of the best halfcourt teams and Maggette is not a slow, plodding 300 pound center who can't run or adjust. Plus they don't give up a key player for him.

Sorry to me, Spurs + Maggette is very scary and makes them title favorites for next year.

Also, I would love to have Najera and JR Smith. Don't see why the Nuggets do that though.

[mrmreg]

manu, redd, arenas were 2nd round picks 2.

Silly arguement.

1st, these guys are by far the exception.

2nd, let's look at them.

Manu was drafted in 99 and didn't come to the NBA until 02 when he averaged 7.6 pts a game as a rookie.

Michael Redd averaged 2.2 as a rookie.

Arenas averaged a little over 10 as a rookie, and was a high 2nd rounder, not a late one.

So, if the Mavericks have absoltuely struck gold with this guy, they can reasonably be expected to have a guy capable of coming in and averaging about 6 or 7 points a game. And that's getting it done on a contending team? No.

What would the list of 2nd rounders who have never sniffed an NBA game look like? Hundreds and hundreds of names on that list. So history would suggest this is far more likely what they have.

I have much higher hopes for Gerald Green, since he at least had the talent to be considered a mid-1st at some point. Sounds like he's an absolute knuckle-head though, so I'm not real confident in that route either.

I guess just bring in every euro/nbdl/globetrotter/gus macker/summer-leaguer that you can find, and hope you hit a homer somewhere.

More hopefully though, they figure out it's time to tear the thing down and start over before Dirk's value is all behind them.

It's been a while since I was more high the Rangers than the Mavs.

Go Rangers.

[mrmreg]

What we could offer is a bunch of players in a sign and trade.

This could be a possibility:
Stack
Jones S&T
Bass

for

Najera
JR Smith

1st, don't S&Ts have to be one-for-one? I know you could do seperate trades that are really linked.

2nd, Stack would have no value in a S&T. His value is in taking on a longer deal to give a team cap relief in later years. He isn't worth his present salary, so the other team would be better off just letting their guy walk versus taking Stack's deal. Ditto for Jones.

Can a S&T be a three-way deal? Maybe if team C wanted cap relief and team B wanted one of their players in a S&T then Stack could be used.

Bass? Maybe, but I doubt he's enough to bring JR Smith. Denver would also know that in 1 year Bass will be free and they'll have no ability to pay him more than anyone else. Maybe less depending on whether he warrants and above MLE deal.

[your_dallas_mavericks]

Reg, you've given me an idea for a topic...

[hph6203]

1. Diop is worth the MLE. If you don't think so, then you haven't been paying attention to what players are getting what contracts. And to the people who say "James Posey" I laugh in your face. I'd MUCH rather have Diop than James Posey. It's almost laughable that someone would even bring his name up. Posey plays PF, and wouldn't get many minutes here. We didn't have a back up C, and Diop fills that role better than anyone out there. We needed a C WAY MORE than a SG.

2. You're all grasping at phantoms, several of them. First of all Maggette hasn't signed for the MLE with anyone yet. Secondly, even if he does sign with a team for the MLE doesn't mean he would have signed with the Mavs for the MLE. There's a lot that goes into a player signing with a team. You're all assuming you can talk a player into joining a team, that's not the case.

So, before you all go off the handle on the Mavs front office, sit back, take a breath and consider that the Mavs had no back up C option, and have several options for the starting SG role (whether you like them or not). A back up C at this stage was much more important than an upgrade to the SG.


EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I'm laughing at all of you saying "Give Maggette the full MLE", because there is absolutely NO ONE I would want playing C behind Dampier on the team right now. There are plenty of people I'd accept as a starting SG already on this roster (whoever it is couldn't possibly be worse than Eddie Jones). Who would be behind Dampier? Dampier can play maybe 30 minutes a game. Who gets the other 18? Dirk? Bass? Those 18 minutes = lose 75% of our games, because it would be open season on the Mavs. Now 28-32 minutes of Maggette does not even begin to make up for that grand canyon size crack in the Mavs' line up.

[ppp000]

1. Posey is a great defender and clutch. How is it laughable that people bring up his name? Diop may be more important to our C-depleted team considering we only have Erica, but that doesn't mean he is worth the full MLE. And I don't agree that we need a backup C "way more" than a quality SG. If the C was actually someone who had any semblance of an offensive game, then yes this would be ok. With Diop-Damp tandem+ same core, we have gotten burned year in and out by guys like Wade and Kobe and last year, Baron. Nothing ever changes. Still the same soft, jump shooting team.

2. Maggette was a long shot, just makes a lot of us wonder why no big FA is attracted to the mavs. I mean, when Kidd came here, wasn't one of the heralded perks 'he will attracte more players to the Mavs b/c everyone wants to play with Kidd?"

3. But that's the problem, or at least my problem. Getting Diop for the full MLE is like going back to the same group that didnt work before. Or is this all on Avery? Every offseason, the two same things are never addressed: low post scoring and a quality SG. Obviously easier said than done. Heres hoping they have some trade in the works.

[Captain_Obvious]

Im really wondering if there was another team bidding with us for Diop. I mean i wasnt watching many Nets games, just 3 or so, and their whole frontcourt sucked massively. Diop is not a high BBIQ player, one could say he has no at all. I dont know if he's that valuable, at least we're having our backup center now.

I was hoping till the end that we're doing a sign and trade but my hope gets slimmer...

On the other side, i dont know if i read it here or in another thread, if the Nets really talked with Devean George, there must be an agreement somewhere. They can get George without using their MLE (hope theyre over the cap) if they trade with us for Diop. They were probably talking exactly about this with Devean and wanted to know if he accepts. Of course such a deal could get larger.

Diop has just agreed to the possibility of joining our team and his contract. The deal cant go through till a new deadline next week IIRC.

Anyway, welcome back Diop.

[Rand10]

http://www.star-telegram.com/287/story/738094.html

The fifth year is a player-option. Diop, who said Wednesday by phone that he had three other offers, made about $2.2 million last season.

[myconsumerclub]

Jones and Stack would be throw ins to make salaries match if Bass was to be traded for some teams older fading star that fits a temporary need. Hope that's not the case.

Green could blossom and grow up after he realizes his last chance is upon him and he needs to get with the program and develop a better attitude about improving his game and developing some professionalism. Foster is a 3 point shooter with skills. These 2 could split the SG position and provide us youthful intensity. Wright needs to be resigned as well. RAT is still a better choice at SF than George so I would try like hel to get George Jones and stack gone out of here finito.

OK you were good for a while now it's time to let the next generation have the reins and drive the ship.

Dirk Howard Kidd our double headed center and the rotation of youth that we can try out at SG is better than playing Terry at SG like we did last year.

I think Green could be what we need with Kidd making him look better than he really is and both him Rat and Foster are good 3 point artists.

Wright is working on getting to that level but has a good defensive game and still slashes to the basket as does Green and RAT. Pop's 6'9" SF/ PF and Sow 6'10" 250 PF/ C can help out at the PF position while contributing at another position so that if we do need to trade BASS we are prepared for it with a versatile situation.

Then if we do trade the Bass master we would be getting something back presumably that we are needing. I would make JET a part of that trade just to get rid of his contract if we could get back something decent.

Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Eddy Curry
6-11 C from Thornwood (HS)
No games yet played in 2007/08
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG / PG from Michigan
No games yet played in 2007/08
Outgoing Players
Erick Dampier
6-11 C from Mississippi State
No games yet played in 2007/08
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
No games yet played in 2007/08
Brandon Bass
6-8 PF from Lousiana State
No games yet played in 2007/08
New York Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and 0.0 apg.
Incoming Players
Erick Dampier
6-11 C from Mississippi State
No games yet played in 2007/08
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
No games yet played in 2007/08
Brandon Bass
6-8 PF from Lousiana State
No games yet played in 2007/08
Outgoing Players
Eddy Curry
6-11 C from Thornwood (HS)
No games yet played in 2007/08
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG / PG from Michigan
No games yet played in 2007/08

[hph6203]

Again, for all of those who are chiming in with James Posey (sorry, I just don't see how he's such a great asset to THIS TEAM), or Corey Maggette. Look at these two line ups:

PG: Jason Kidd/Jason Terry/JJ Barea
SG: Corey Maggette/Antoine Wright/Shan Foster/Gerald Green
SF: Josh Howard/Jerry Stackhouse/Reyshawn Terry
PF: Dirk Nowitzki/Brandon Bass
C: Erick Dampier

or

PG: Jason Kidd/Jason Terry/JJ Barea
SG: Josh Howard/Atoine Wright/Shan Foster/Gerald Green
SF: James Posey/Jerry Stackhouse/Reyshawn Terry
PF: Dirk Nowitzki/Brandon Bass
C: Erick Dampier

And tell me they are better than

PG: Jason Kidd/JJ. Barea
SG: Jason Terry/Antoine Wright/Shan Foster/Gerald Green
SF: Josh Howard/Jerry Stackhouse/Reyshawn Terry
PF: Dirk Nowitzki/Brandon Bass
C: Erick Dampier/Desagana Diop

I just don't see it. I don't care if James Posey is the best defender in the NBA. There's really no one out there that would be worth of the back up C spot.

[cmavswin]

So Posey could come here for the MLE and might get to the 2nd round of the playoffs or re-sign in Boston for a little less and not have to worry about showing up until round 2 of the playoffs. Corey Maggette will be a Warrior for around 7.5 mil or a Clipper again for around 7 mil.

[Dentor]

This blows.

That MLE could have been used elsewhere.

I guess the FO thinks Stack, Jones, Wright, Foster or Green will be great next to Howard. Either that, or Dampier and/or Bass is on their way out.

Diop is worth MLE, but not the right piece for us to target.

Where else could it have gone that would have been better? Diop is still young, and plays a position of need. We now have 4 big men, without him we only had 1 center.

[Dentor]

You all assume Posey and Maggette want to come here. What if they don't? Some of you are the same people who were clamoring for us to give Steven Hunter the full MLE a few years ago. The price of good centers is high, I have no problem with what Diop is getting and I don't understand anyone else having a problem. Did anyone else notice how easy the Hornets got to the hoop in the playoffs?