should matt carroll start at the two?

[ASIMO]

@jlp0807

no one can trade a long term contract as a chip exchanging for a short term contract.
Carroll must be used in the next team.
Thats why someone think to give him PT to raise his value. I can understand it.
But as I mentioned previously Carlisle has already failed to raise his value as you already know.

The point is whether his value is at the bottom line or not.

Actually his value has dropped down significantly last season. Especially under the Carlisle. It is true.

But he spent only one bad season. 2 years ago, he made 43% 3pt. In Previous year his average was 12pt. His contract is not a Garbage yet. (Actually a nearly garbage ) Thats why Mavs got him in last season. (I think they had a chance to get a shorter garbage contract...Nazr.)

He is not a garbage contract for some teams HC. There are more gabage contracts in this league.

I believe the trade talk with TRO was (is?) in serious. You can say Carroll is not a garbage than Banks for TRO with several reasons.


Again I believe we can not use Carrol as a chip. We can use Carroll to get a chip (a 2yr contract).

[JES12]

But as I mentioned previously Carlisle has already failed to raise his value as you already know.

You can't seriously be saying he has failed to raise Carroll's value because of a mid-season trade where the rotation has already been set along with no training camp in the new system.

It was the last seasons Carlisles task. (as DAntoni owed for Z Bo, Crawford, Curry and Jeffries)

Lets see...all 3 of them went through as training camp with Dantoni. All 3 of them were playing on a team that could care less about making the playoffs (and they didn't), so individual results was paramount. Curry is still in NY, so I guess you caouls say Dantoni failed. Randolph was traded for a guy making ~$17 mil for nothing (Mobley) and a vet min type guy making $6 mil (Thomas). And Crawford was traded for a guy with a 1 year shorter contract who was a knucklehead demanding a trade.

All sucess stories.

[ASIMO]

But as I mentioned previously Carlisle has already failed to raise his value as you already know.

You can't seriously be saying he has failed to raise Carroll's value because of a mid-season trade where the rotation has already been set along with no training camp in the new system.

Yes you are right. It was hard for him to play under the carlisle in the middle of the season.

Thats why the 40% shooter made only one 3 point in half season...? Hmmm...

I dont wanna think seriously how many he can make 3 pts in the next season under the same HC

[JES12]

But as I mentioned previously Carlisle has already failed to raise his value as you already know.

You can't seriously be saying he has failed to raise Carroll's value because of a mid-season trade where the rotation has already been set along with no training camp in the new system.

Yes you are right. It was hard for him to play under the carlisle in the middle of the season.

Thats why the 40% shooter made only one 3 point in half season...? Hmmm...

I dont wanna think seriously how many he can make 3 pts in the next season under the same HC

The dude had no clue where he was suppoed to be on the court and played trash time with ball hogs like Gerald Green, showboats like Ryan Hollins and 3-pt chuckers (in trash time) like Singleton. For a sytem guy, that random catch and play selfish ball crap is not condusive for his success.

I really, really think that a training camp with Rick and playing meaningful minutes will do wonders for his play.

[dirkules_41]

I wish there still was a ingore button... I don't get to post a lot this week unfortunately. But this really made me take those 2 minutes to just solidify my opinion of thaAteam as the worst poster on this board.
It amazes me in what absurd ways a human brain can work what is it your smoking?

nothing to say on topic... just ridiculous

[ASIMO]

The dude had no clue where he was suppoed to be on the court and played trash time with ball hogs like Gerald Green, showboats like Ryan Hollins and 3-pt chuckers (in trash time) like Singleton. For a sytem guy, that random catch and play selfish ball crap is not condusive for his success.

I really, really think that a training camp with Rick and playing meaningful minutes will do wonders for his play.

And do you want to give a chance him two concecutive years? Only to raise his value? How many minutes will you give him precious PT? From who? What do you expect him? Having much 3pter in our roster?

If youe theory is right that a traded player can play badly in the middle of the season, Mavs should wait to get him until this off season?

I remember Diop spend his training camp last season... doesnt he? And when he traded?

[JES12]

And do you want to give a chance him in the coming season? To raise his value? How many times will you give him precious PT? From who? What do you expect him? We have much 3pter in our roster.

No. I want him to raise his game to be a part of the rotation as a niche player because I don't think we are going to be able to get rid of him.

If youe theory is right that a traded player can play badly in the middle of the season, Mavs should not get him until this off season, right?

I had the same argument against Devin for Kidd. I was right then and I hope I am right now.

I remember Diop spend his training camp last season... isnt he? And when he traded?

Diop was not a Rick guy. Like Marquis and Avery. Kurt Thomas and Nellie. This year we get to see if Carroll is a Rick guy.

[JES12]

@ your edit....

And do you want to give a chance him two concecutive years?

No. If he does not work out this year, then we make moves.

[ASIMO]

@ JES12

I believe we need to give at least about 15min constant PT to raise his value. I have no idea we can give such a PT looking at our roster.

And Diop was acquired after Carlisle became HC. I dont think he is innocent to get him.

Plus no one knows Carroll is his guy. I dont remember Carlisle used the type of Carroll guy in his team. Only John Barry in Detriot. Sorry, I cant think Carroll is his guy.

[SamBone]

I 100% agree with the original poster. I think Carroll needs to start or at least play 30 minutes a game in order to showcase him to increase his value. The best case scenario is that he shows production in extended minutes and becomes a trade asset along with giving JHo and Jet some rest up until the trade deadline. The worst that can happen is that he shows nothing and is buried on the bench again and the Mavs have to overpay their 13th man for the next few years. I see no harm whatsoever in at least trying to make a trade asset out of Carroll.

well Carroll should play 30 min a game and never has. Yes he would be at his best on the court with the starters (kind of like Wright was last year. Jet and JHo runnin with the 2nd unit and Carroll starting (but only playing 15-20 min like AW did) would work. If he can't revert to his old self (he still is in the top 15 in NBA history in 3 point shooting % for career) then let him wear a suit. If he shines, then he will have trade value because off his declining contract and Cub's deep packets

[SamBone]

The dude had no clue where he was suppoed to be on the court and played trash time with ball hogs like Gerald Green, showboats like Ryan Hollins and 3-pt chuckers (in trash time) like Singleton. For a sytem guy, that random catch and play selfish ball crap is not condusive for his success.

I really, really think that a training camp with Rick and playing meaningful minutes will do wonders for his play.

I said that all last season and got ripped for it.

I agree 110%

[thaAteam]

I wish there still was a ingore button... I don't get to post a lot this week unfortunately. But this really made me take those 2 minutes to just solidify my opinion of thaAteam as the worst poster on this board.
It amazes me in what absurd ways a human brain can work what is it your smoking?

nothing to say on topic... just ridiculous

other people seem to like it also so i guess we all have a jacked up brain, and i have seen some of the crap u have posted....... but i guess u couldnt nominate yourself as the worst poster lol

[dirkules_41]

Talking preseason why not. But no one's gonna be willing to lose regular season games to showcase the incredible Matt Carroll. Agree - as usual - with JES on this one... he might actually be able to do something with a full training camp under his belt. But the only proper use there is for the starting 2 spot is to give it to Josh. We still heavily rely on his play and the sooner he gets accustomed to it the better this team will be. That's why I think it's just a disastrous idea (in regular season, don't care about some pre-season games).

hit me with my "crap", please. I'm capable of using appropriate grammar and I'm aware of CAPSLOCK. And I sure as hell didn't try to get Zo out of his sarcophagus.

[ASIMO]

Talking preseason why not.

Simple. Preseasons result doenst matter for other teams.
If Carroll hit over 40% 3pt or avg 12ppt, will you give him consistent PT over 15min until trade deadline? From who? Can you believe you can raise his value played with Dirk, JET, JKidd and TT? Sometime JJB and JHo make three.How many three point shots we must try in a game?

@JES12

Here is not NY. We are looking the title, right? We can not give him PT to raise his value this season. Carlisles task should be only in last season. The result was ... Carlisle devastated his value as much as he can.
(Even in NYs DAntoni had to handle them until the trade deadline only in Last season. Jeffries was not a garbage for DAntoni at that time. Thats why NY rejected MILs Offer. And Curry was too fat. You can say DAntoni completed his task until the trade deadline for not only one, for 3 different type of guys.)
As you know, the coming season must be the most precious season for veteran players. Again here is not NY. We have less time than NY, doest we? Plus Carroll didnt get injured. It is different from Currys case.


Do you think our coach C intentionally didnt try to raise his value in the last season making Carroll played with such a guys? To use our precious coming season? Because he can not understand his basketball like Diop, Green and Bass...? And Singleton has better IQ than Carroll?

Hmmmm... at least I really hope Carrolls basketball IQ is not same to both guys.


Anyway if we must use him in the precious coming season, you can say it is already one of our Coachs failure.

[MainEv3nt]

i agree he should be the starting 2.................on a different team.

[jlp0807]

You guys are crazy. Shimo, ATeam, get a clue.

Josh Howard is in a contract year! What do you not understand about this? Do you honestly think that he will NOT start?

Matt Carroll has done nothing to prove that he should be a starter on this good of a team. The Mavs would be crazy to play him 30, 15 or less quality minutes and practically ruin our season.

Look at the parity in the West! One or two games could mean the difference between home court, or playing a tougher team in the playoffs. We are not going to risk our season to try to get a little better trade value out of a scrub.

This is in fact the dumbest idea ever posted on this site. Carroll is worthless. He is a defensive liability, is not athletic, cannot rebound, cannot score the number of points we need playing along Kidd and Damp/center.

[dirkules_41]

Thank you jlp!

[JES12]

Here is not NY.

Obviously. Which is why I said it was kinda dumb to compare Dantoni to Carlisle.

We are looking the title, right? We can not give him PT to raise his value this season.

I am not saying that. What I am saying is that with summer to understand Rick's playbook and a training camp with him he will earn the rights to take a role similar to Kapono in Toronto or if we have an injury, Korver in Utah.

Carlisles task should be only in last season. The result was ... Carlisle devastated his value as much as he can.

Rick did his job last year. And that was to get us into the playoffs. Not make sure Carroll undersood his system. Remember that we were sitting at 8-10 spot most of the time til Josh Howard came back. The off-season is different. Now is where he makes sure his roster knows what they are supposed to be doing.

(Even in NYs DAntoni had to handle them until the trade deadline only in Last season.

All his players had playing time on a team looking for individual play, not team play. AND they had training camp. And like you said...this is not NY...so quit comparing our situations.

Jeffries was not a garbage for DAntoni at that time. Thats why NY rejected MILs Offer. And Curry was too fat. You can say DAntoni completed his task until the trade deadline for not only one, for 3 different type of guys.)

Yes, Jeffries was garbage. And don't believe for one second that they would not wash his contract away if they could. And he only passed with Randolph. His goal was to rid the team of any unwanted 2010 salary w/o giving up picks and prospects on rookie scale contracts.

As you know, the coming season must be the most precious season for veteran players. Again here is not NY. We have less time than NY, doest we? Plus Carroll didnt get injured. It is different from Currys case.

Please do stick with one argument or the other. My stance has always been that we are not NY yet you keep camparing our situations.

Do you think our coach C intentionally didnt try to raise his value in the last season making Carroll played with such a guys?

Once again...his job was not to raise the value of any player. His job was not to copy NY. His job was in Dallas and in Dallas we had to make sure our struggling team made the playoffs. Please do stop saying we are not NY and then turn around and say we should be NY. It is a very week argument to say Rich should have spent all his time on any end of the bench player aquired mid-season when we were a playoff team. But even worse is to say Rick's job was the same as Dantoni's.

To use our precious coming season? Because he can not understand his basketball like Diop, Green and Bass...? And Singleton has better IQ than Carroll?

That is the dumbest statement on this thread. Carroll's BB IQ is higher than all those names and it is just rediculous to compare him to Diop. Bass' work ethic is the highest of all those names. Green's athletisism is the best of all those names. Singleton is not #1 in any of those catagories.

Anyway if we must use him in the precious coming season, you can say it is already one of our Coachs failure.

It is a failure if we are not able to or unwilling to use him because of the infamilararity of our system. That is true with any of our new players. Tim Thomas. Drew Gooden. Nathan Jawai. Kris Humphries. Shawn Marion. Quienton Ross. Rodrigue Beaubois (though he may get burn in the D-League beacuse of league, language and country more than system). And whoever we get in a Buckner trade.

[ASIMO]

@JES12

You dont reply for my questions.

After he learned "his basketball" in his traning camp... How many PT will you give him? from Who? Show us your rotation and position plan iuncl. Carroll

From TT and Ross? Do you want to see the PT demands from both veteran players? Or...are you thinking they can convince it to get the title? OK... we might be able to get the title using Carroll than them... So... why did we get them?


[Carrolls basketball IQ]
I dont think his basketball IQ is same to both guys. You are writing Carlisle cant make a High basket ball IQ player( who is a member of the basketball family) understand his basketball only as a 3 pointer , taking a half of the season. Actually JJB and Singleton could. Because they attended his traning camp? I see... Seemingly we must say these are miracles that happened in DEN and ORL in the last season.

They got a starting PG in the middle of the season TO WIN in the PO and they WENT to the conference final.

OK, these are miracles... at least under the our coaches basketball.


[DAntoni]
I am comparing this to NYs case because how every HC MUST raise trade value as soon as possible.
NY has more time and had more such a player than Dallas. And even they completed them in the middle of the season. Why do you think we have more time than NY to raise trade value?
OK, not to raise his trade value. Having a lot of reliable 3 pointers, we need to give Carroll the right as Kapono and Korver were given. And you are saying our team is like UTA and TOR... Hmmm

So... how many 3 point shot do you want in a game?


[Jeffries]
OK, please tell me why NY rejected an offer from MIL to Jeffries. If you dont know about this rumor, please search for it. If you dont believe this rumor, it is OK. We should not argue about it.
Why was Jeffries not a garbege at that time?
Because NY failed to get Milicic at that time and Jeffries played at sub center well before he got injured. And NY was looking at PO at that time and shipping Lee out in this offseason. (But it is very difficult because he is the most popular player in NY. So DAntoni had to also raised his value as much as possible keeping him doubl-double even though they were losing a game for him)
Plus seemingly you forget about Crawford.

But... sorry, please forget all of things about NY. I stop to come up with NYs case in Mavs fans board anymore. It is my fault.


[Other new comers in Dallas]
And how long does it take them to understand his basketball? And if they were not Ricks guys like Diop as you mentioned? Wont we use them... to go to PO ?
Yeah, their contracts are short or cheap than Carroll. We can cut them. So what? We get new one and we will wait for the next season?

I strongly believe we must use TT, Matrix, Gooden, Ross in this season from the begging. Plus we should use JHo as a starting 2(he must understand his basketball as a 2) .
These are difficult. Yes. But Carlisle musy handle them in our precious coming season.
You can say this is the Coachs duty to lead an elite team. A Good coach can COACH his players his basketball to win. It is very simple. And I strongly believe they could ARANGE their basketball for a new comer or a new job even in the middle of the season... Yeah, without his guy. (Maybe it is impossible )

I dont think Carlisle is doing his job for an elite team or Carroll is his guy.

[thaAteam]

You guys are crazy. Shimo, ATeam, get a clue.

Josh Howard is in a contract year! What do you not understand about this? Do you honestly think that he will NOT start?

Matt Carroll has done nothing to prove that he should be a starter on this good of a team. The Mavs would be crazy to play him 30, 15 or less quality minutes and practically ruin our season.

Look at the parity in the West! One or two games could mean the difference between home court, or playing a tougher team in the playoffs. We are not going to risk our season to try to get a little better trade value out of a scrub.

This is in fact the dumbest idea ever posted on this site. Carroll is worthless. He is a defensive liability, is not athletic, cannot rebound, cannot score the number of points we need playing along Kidd and Damp/center.

are u a dope fiend? do u honestly think dallas cares about starting howard because he is in a contract yr? and simply playing carroll to see if he can be effective isnt a bad idea, if he is effective he will get some trade value, if not, he will go back to the bench, nobody suggested keepin this guy in the lineup if hes stinkin up the joint. this is a business simply and plain, manu is also in a contract yr, and im sure mason will still be the starting two in san antonio