Harrison Barnes

[Darren]

I mean floater in motion (in the first layup step) if defenders do not brike on pump fakes. If not, an up-and-under underhand layup (in the second layup step). I am not sure why you associate them to ankle injury. I use it a lot without any ankle injury. I only had ankle injury once landing on somebody's foot while rebounding.

[Suka Bongcic]

I think Barnes can capitalize his advantage with 7-foot wingspan. He can stretch his arms to the biggest angles to create spaces for wide open layup. Not even SFs with ordinary size can guard him. To enhance his overall quickness and explosiveness is the key. Think if Barnes can develop an efficient moves by a somewhat up-and-under. At the first steps, he can raise the ball high for a fake or for a layup depending on how defenders react. If defenders jump, then drive pass him with another step for a wideopen layup. If defenders do not bike on the fakes, lay it up during the first step in motion. As long as he can develop such a layup, he gets his first go-to move. Converting them at high rates, he will start to draw double-teams early. Assume he's driven past his man, he can actually draw one or two interior defender(s) in the process. Then, somebody should be opened for a 3. With the deadeye shooters on roster, we can find an effective way to score. If we can somewhat improve our offensive numbers, our defense will come up big for us to win a lot of game. So stretch his arms and make a bigger step play dividends in his game offensively. And he can get more steals and blocks against good matchups. He can get some fastbreak points as well. It's not that difficult to increase his average from 13-14 PPG (per 36 min) to 16-18 PPG (per 36 min). He has to change some habits and practice layups in certain ways. A move like Manu or Harden should be enough for him. If he can improve his explosiveness, then he's a big positive on court.

I am just throwing out ideas in mad scientist approach. We're a team that enjoy favorable mismatches. That's how we make Dirk unguardible with his combination of length and his shots. I think we can find the right mix to capitalize his advantage with long wingspan. I think Justin Anderson has the same edge as well.

Sure, he could work on his speed. It can't hurt to get faster, but it means nothing unless he improves his ball control. Moving faster with his currently handles might be a bad thing. He needs to improve his handles and his mental toughness or he'll always be what he's been.

[Darren]

If he can operate at different speed and use the screens properly, he should be fine. It doesn't hurt for him to stretch his arms and layup like he's laying on ground (not that much). With his broad shoulders, he can pick away his own defender. The latter has no chance blocking his shots. With no help defenders, it's an automatic 2 points. He does not need to run a lot faster indeed. He just need to make a leap in bigger steps. Even with help defender, he can even make a floater (in first leaping step) if defender only it a pump fakes. Or else, he can go underhand for a wideopened layup if help defender getting faked to the air.

[Johnstarks]

With Barnes less is more. You don't want him getting involved too much offensively as he's just awful in the pick and roll. You want him to stand in the corner and space the floor so efficient players can direct the offense. You want to lull the defense to sleep with him so he gets wide open corner 3s as he can normally hit a fair percentage of them. He's a pretty decent stretch 4 but he's not very effective from the 3. He won't get you beat at the 3 but he won't help you win either. Barnes is one of those guys that can be an asset I'd utilized correctly but if you try to expand his role it gets ugly quick.

[Mr B]

With Barnes less is more. You don't want him getting involved too much offensively as he's just awful in the pick and roll. You want him to stand in the corner and space the floor so efficient players can direct the offense. You want to lull the defense to sleep with him so he gets wide open corner 3s as he can normally hit a fair percentage of them. He's a pretty decent stretch 4 but he's not very effective from the 3. He won't get you beat at the 3 but he won't help you win either. Barnes is one of those guys that can be an asset I'd utilized correctly but if you try to expand his role it gets ugly quick.

I disagree. That's the way GS used him because they have a ton of other guys. Barnes is athletic enough to be very good at the P&R. He just needs to work on it. The Mavs run a free flow offense where Carlisle calls very few plays. They basically pick and roll teams to death. If Barnes is only ever a spot up shooter then signing him was a huge waist. If he doesn't become one of the primary scoring options either in the P&R, or with his back to the basket (in addition to his 3 point range) then his signing will be considered a huge bust.

[Johnstarks]

Nah, he can't run the pick and roll. The numbers dont lie hes flat out horrible. No ballhandling and he's awful going 1 on 1. He's only a spot up shooter that's why everyone warned against signing him to a max deal.

Yeah it's pretty much a forgone cinclusion that he's overpaid because he's a floor spacers but that skill is more important than you think

[Darren]

Nah, he can't run the pick and roll. The numbers dont lie hes flat out horrible. No ballhandling and he's awful going 1 on 1. He's only a spot up shooter that's why everyone warned against signing him to a max deal.

Yeah it's pretty much a forgone cinclusion that he's overpaid because he's a floor spacers but that skill is more important than you think

From my observation, he avoids body contact for some reasons. That's why he can't create space with screens. His number is terrible. It's more to do with his ability to finish the rim in motion than poor ball handling. I wonder why I have watched him missing layups without tight defense.

[Pointguard01]

Nah, he can't run the pick and roll. The numbers dont lie hes flat out horrible. No ballhandling and he's awful going 1 on 1. He's only a spot up shooter that's why everyone warned against signing him to a max deal.

Yeah it's pretty much a forgone cinclusion that he's overpaid because he's a floor spacers but that skill is more important than you think

Am I wrong in assuming he has a decent post game -- Same turn around fadeaway, but seems to make it? I've really only watched a hand full of GSW games the last couple of years, where HB is barely used, but he seems to be comfortable getting to the middle of the paint, re: 12-feet way, and shooting that shot. Sometimes he would get there off an angle due to good ball movement and simply the GSW offense, but i thought he did that some-what solidly. Am I wrong?

[Mr B]

Nah, he can't run the pick and roll. The numbers dont lie hes flat out horrible. No ballhandling and he's awful going 1 on 1. He's only a spot up shooter that's why everyone warned against signing him to a max deal.

Yeah it's pretty much a forgone cinclusion that he's overpaid because he's a floor spacers but that skill is more important than you think

Am I wrong in assuming he has a decent post game -- Same turn around fadeaway, but seems to make it? I've really only watched a hand full of GSW games the last couple of years, where HB is barely used, but he seems to be comfortable getting to the middle of the paint, re: 12-feet way, and shooting that shot. Sometimes he would get there off an angle due to good ball movement and simply the GSW offense, but i thought he did that some-what solidly. Am I wrong?

You're not wrong at all. It's needs work but he does have a limited post up game.

[Mr B]

Nah, he can't run the pick and roll. The numbers dont lie hes flat out horrible. No ballhandling and he's awful going 1 on 1. He's only a spot up shooter that's why everyone warned against signing him to a max deal.

Yeah it's pretty much a forgone cinclusion that he's overpaid because he's a floor spacers but that skill is more important than you think

That's where having one of the 2 best coaches in the NBA comes in handy.

[Johnstarks]

You're not wrong in that he does have a decent midrange post game rwlative to othrr players . but that isn't the way to win games, those are bailout shots when everything fails. You either need to get to the line, the rim, or stroke the 3 or you'll get murdered out there today.

Letting Harrison Barnes run iso or pnr is a Good option relative to posting up biyimbo or letting derozan jack up 3s but it's still not efficient offense

[Texas Chuck]

You're not wrong in that he does have a decent midrange post game rwlative to othrr players . but that isn't the way to win games, those are bailout shots when everything fails. You either need to get to the line, the rim, or stroke the 3 or you'll get murdered out there today.

Not if you have Dirk. In fact, many of the all-time great players have tremendous mid-range games. Analytics have taught teams that less skilled players need to stick to those areas to maintain a reasonable efficiency, but in part because of defenses gearing up to defend the arc and teh paint, the mid-range is frequently a spot that can be exploited--something Dirk has built a career on.

I think Rick is smart enough to understand the analytics without being a slave to it the way a team like Houston is.

[Mr B]

You're not wrong in that he does have a decent midrange post game rwlative to othrr players . but that isn't the way to win games, those are bailout shots when everything fails. You either need to get to the line, the rim, or stroke the 3 or you'll get murdered out there today.

Letting Harrison Barnes run iso or pnr is a Good option relative to posting up biyimbo or letting derozan jack up 3s but it's still not efficient offense

Mavs won a title killing teams with the P&R and with a player with a dominant mid-range game.

[Johnstarks]

You're not wrong in that he does have a decent midrange post game rwlative to othrr players . but that isn't the way to win games, those are bailout shots when everything fails. You either need to get to the line, the rim, or stroke the 3 or you'll get murdered out there today.

Letting Harrison Barnes run iso or pnr is a Good option relative to posting up biyimbo or letting derozan jack up 3s but it's still not efficient offense

Mavs won a title killing teams with the P&R and with a player with a dominant mid-range game.

Lol, ok the mavs won a title once so let's just let a plAyer who doesn't have that type of skillset try it now

[Mr B]

You're not wrong in that he does have a decent midrange post game rwlative to othrr players . but that isn't the way to win games, those are bailout shots when everything fails. You either need to get to the line, the rim, or stroke the 3 or you'll get murdered out there today.

Letting Harrison Barnes run iso or pnr is a Good option relative to posting up biyimbo or letting derozan jack up 3s but it's still not efficient offense

Mavs won a title killing teams with the P&R and with a player with a dominant mid-range game.

Lol, ok the mavs won a title once so let's just let a plAyer who doesn't have that type of skillset try it now

He has the talent to learn. He's athletic, moves well without the ball and has the skill to be a very good mid range player. His skills just need to be refined. And as I said, that's where having Carlisle comes in. Just because you are not good at something when you're 24 yrs old doesn't mean you will never be good at it. Dirk didn't get really good at that one-legged fade away that he's so famous for until his early 30's.

[Johnstarks]

You aren't gonna win games by putting the ball in Barnes hands. He's not that type of player. His iso stats before Kerr got there were absolutely terrible. He's terrible in the pnr.

The guy got mislabeled as the next kobe 7 years ago and he's been living off hype ever since. But like chuck lidell says "without substance you cannot have style". Barnes is a guy who can hit 3s. He can defend multiple positions. That's about it. If his name were wes Matthew's instead of Harrison Barnes people would not be expecting him to run pnr

[2011Champs]

You aren't gonna win games by putting the ball in Barnes hands. He's not that type of player. Barnes is a guy who can hit 3s. He can defend multiple positions.

If Barnes can be as good as a defender as Shawn Marion and also knock down some threes than he will be perfect for Dallas. I doubt Barnes looks anywhere close to a max player statistically on offense. In my opinion he will be an ideal addition if he can be the starting SF here in Dallas the next 10 years.

[Texas Chuck]

Lol, ok the mavs won a title once so let's just let a plAyer who doesn't have that type of skillset try it now

You aren't gonna win games by putting the ball in Barnes hands. He's not that type of player. His iso stats before Kerr got there were absolutely terrible. He's terrible in the pnr.

The guy got mislabeled as the next kobe 7 years ago and he's been living off hype ever since. But like chuck lidell says "without substance you cannot have style". Barnes is a guy who can hit 3s. He can defend multiple positions. That's about it. If his name were wes Matthew's instead of Harrison Barnes people would not be expecting him to run pnr

I tend to agree with you that Barnes isn't going to be the ball-handler in the PNR very much. I think when he's in the game as the back-up 4 which I expect him to be a fair bit, that he will be the screener on occasion, but rarely the ball-handler. And it's an issue for Dallas because while Dirk still creates gravity with his shooting, he needs more help creating. And really Deron and JJ Barea are really our only options and neither guy is exactly elite.


But Bogut will help, Matthews should shoot better this year with his achilles showing improvement, and we are expecting Seth Curry to contribute some spacing at a minimum, but most important our head coach knows offense. He will make it all work--I have faith in that.

[Johnstarks]

You aren't gonna win games by putting the ball in Barnes hands. He's not that type of player. Barnes is a guy who can hit 3s. He can defend multiple positions.

If Barnes can be as good as a defender as Shawn Marion and also knock down some threes than he will be perfect for Dallas. I doubt Barnes looks anywhere close to a max player statistically on offense. In my opinion he will be an ideal addition if he can be the starting SF here in Dallas the next 10 years.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect him to be anywhere near as good of a defender as one of the most versatile defenders in league history. I do think he can start for you but he's a much better pf than sf

[2011Champs]

You aren't gonna win games by putting the ball in Barnes hands. He's not that type of player. Barnes is a guy who can hit 3s. He can defend multiple positions.

If Barnes can be as good as a defender as Shawn Marion and also knock down some threes than he will be perfect for Dallas. I doubt Barnes looks anywhere close to a max player statistically on offense. In my opinion he will be an ideal addition if he can be the starting SF here in Dallas the next 10 years.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect him to be anywhere near as good of a defender as one of the most versatile defenders in league history. I do think he can start for you but he's a much better pf than sf

My concern for Barnes playing power forward is centered around his rather soft rebounding numbers. Is Barnes not focusing on the boards or is he just a poor rebounder in general? I'd really want my power forward grabbing a minimum of 7 boards a game and preferably more.