Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[XTraderXL]

Barkley is a clown and not to be taken seriously. Last year he predicted after 5 games that the Clippers will be in WCF. They didnt even get in the playoffs. There are 100s of examples like this. He is correct sometimes but thats mostly because of mathematical probability. He and Shaq are the worst "analysts" on TV by far. They are there for comedic relief, not for any serious analysis. Their shtick got old for me a long time ago so I stopped watching the show as its always the same.

In this case Barkley may be correct but that will not be because he is knowledgable, he would just be lucky. I bet he never even watched an EL game, let alone seen Luka play so he is talking out of his ass.

[Mirotic12]

Saying he has no weaknesses is a big of a stretch. He is still not very quick, lacks first step and his D isnt all that great at all. When your go to move is 24 foot step back, thats not the greatest thing, unless you James Harden. And Doncic is very Harden esque and super advanced for his age, but lets not overhype the kid, his main competition at Euroleague MVP was Nande De Colo and Nick Calathes after all...

Outside of Panathinaikos homers, no one would ever seriously consider Nick Calathes to ever be a EuroLeague MVP. He's probably the worst shooting point guard of all time in EuroLeague, and he struggles to even shoot 50% from the free throw line.

At every single playoff series with Panathinaikos, and at every single elimination game with Greek NT, the opposing team backs off him and lets him alone on offense, just daring him to shoot the ball. Rubio is even a much better shooter. To even suggest that he is in the same discussion with Doncic as a player is very insulting.

[agentofatlas]

Watch on YouTube

No, just no.
- Dirk can create space to shoot; can take defenders off dribbles with ease.
- Doncic can only create space to shoot with a step back; he turnovers in paint quite often.
- They play different positions. Dirk's agility advantages at PF. Doncic's below average at SF/SG. Dirk's size advantages to create a favorable mismatch to shoot over people. Doncic has not.
- Let's not forget Dirk's an elite shooter early in his career. Doncic is shooting unimpressive 32% from 3P%. I doubt his playmaking translate well in nba early. He struggles against better defenders (in paints) in international games and European League as well. He'll face a lot of them in nba.

Conclusion - the concerns are legitimate when it comes to his potential to be a first option. He's to at least become an elite shooter and drastically-improving athlete for that role. However, I am sure his IQ and playmaking will push Smith to another level. When Dennis shoots like Barea, he's already better than Lillard. Smith has an elite tool - explosive first step + short time to jump to his highest point. With elite shooting, he's unguardable. That's what makes his elite for a go-to moves to win games. Doncic is a good supporting player. But that's it at this point. He's a shoot very well from long range and has a decent first step to catch up with Harden. Harden relies on his shooting, first steps, euro step and bulks a lot for his go-to moves.

Are those ALL from Dirk’s rookie year? No, they’re not.

I don't see any point even discussing that long post, he is obviously wrong. I don't think there is a single Dirk's "athletic" clip from rookie's season. They are all from 2003-2006 let's say. It's easy to see, just follow the haircut. Dirk looks very slow in his rookie season.

I disagree. Dirk was agile from the get go. The game that put him in the map was basically him ramming/driving against team usa at the hoop summit. His motor also was superb back then.

As for Luka, I'm sure he'll be ok athleticaly. Don't really see the below average complaints. He is average at worst.

He needs to trim down about 15-20lbs though. Also he needs to stop or limit his dancing on the perimeter. He'll get to the basket much easier if he is more descisive on the drive.

[arkuo]

Luka will be ok. People will always have something to complain about. He's a very good playmaker and a very capable shooter. People will complain about his lack of athelticism and will need to play Ron Artest defense to satistfy them. Who's the precedent there? Michael Jordan? And how many Michael Jordans do we get every year? Just let him play an NBA game first, then complain. Jeez.

[XTraderXL]

Are those ALL from Dirk’s rookie year? No, they’re not.

I don't see any point even discussing that long post, he is obviously wrong. I don't think there is a single Dirk's "athletic" clip from rookie's season. They are all from 2003-2006 let's say. It's easy to see, just follow the haircut. Dirk looks very slow in his rookie season.

I disagree. Dirk was agile from the get go. The game that put him in the map was basically him ramming/driving against team usa at the hoop summit. His motor also was superb back then.

As for Luka, I'm sure he'll be ok athleticaly. Don't really see the below average complaints. He is average at worst.

He needs to trim down about 15-20lbs though. Also he needs to stop or limit his dancing on the perimeter. He'll get to the basket much easier if he is more descisive on the drive.

He doesnt need to trim down. He has a large frame, is 6-8 and should easily be around 230-235. He just needs to be in shape with a lower BF% so that his muscles are more effective, turn that 15lbs of fat into muscle. Its not that hard to do, especially for him since he has never really worked with weights. A couple of months in the gym will do wonders for his body.

I do agree with his overdribbling on the perimeter at times but that also comes from him not being sure of himself when it comes to driving. Instead of looking to drive consitently, he is trying to break down defenders to get a 3PT shot. Everyone knows that and that makes it even harder. As he gets in better shape, he will become more confident in his driving ability, defenders will have to back off a bit and the game will become easier and the "dancing" will subside. Of course, this is all predicated on the assumption that he will become better athletically because if he stays in the same shape as he has been at the end of last season, he will have a terrible year in the league. That version of Doncic would definitely not be my top 5 pick.

[agentofatlas]

I don't see any point even discussing that long post, he is obviously wrong. I don't think there is a single Dirk's "athletic" clip from rookie's season. They are all from 2003-2006 let's say. It's easy to see, just follow the haircut. Dirk looks very slow in his rookie season.

I disagree. Dirk was agile from the get go. The game that put him in the map was basically him ramming/driving against team usa at the hoop summit. His motor also was superb back then.

As for Luka, I'm sure he'll be ok athleticaly. Don't really see the below average complaints. He is average at worst.

He needs to trim down about 15-20lbs though. Also he needs to stop or limit his dancing on the perimeter. He'll get to the basket much easier if he is more descisive on the drive.

He doesnt need to trim down. He has a large frame, is 6-8 and should easily be around 230-235. He just needs to be in shape with a lower BF% so that his muscles are more effective, turn that 15lbs of fat into muscle. Its not that hard to do, especially for him since he has never really worked with weights. A couple of months in the gym will do wonders for his body.

I do agree with his overdribbling on the perimeter at times but that also comes from him not being sure of himself when it comes to driving. Instead of looking to drive consitently, he is trying to break down defenders to get a 3PT shot. Everyone knows that and that makes it even harder. As he gets in better shape, he will become more confident in his driving ability, defenders will have to back off a bit and the game will become easier and the "dancing" will subside. Of course, this is all predicated on the assumption that he will become better athletically because if he stays in the same shape as he has been at the end of last season, he will have a terrible year in the league. That version of Doncic would definitely not be my top 5 pick.

Lowering BF means shedding weight. Can't turn fat to muscle. His base strength is good enough that he could lose a few pounds.

He need to show more of that mid range game he showed earlier last year. If can establish his pull-up game then everything will fall into place.

[XTraderXL]

I disagree. Dirk was agile from the get go. The game that put him in the map was basically him ramming/driving against team usa at the hoop summit. His motor also was superb back then.

As for Luka, I'm sure he'll be ok athleticaly. Don't really see the below average complaints. He is average at worst.

He needs to trim down about 15-20lbs though. Also he needs to stop or limit his dancing on the perimeter. He'll get to the basket much easier if he is more descisive on the drive.

He doesnt need to trim down. He has a large frame, is 6-8 and should easily be around 230-235. He just needs to be in shape with a lower BF% so that his muscles are more effective, turn that 15lbs of fat into muscle. Its not that hard to do, especially for him since he has never really worked with weights. A couple of months in the gym will do wonders for his body.

I do agree with his overdribbling on the perimeter at times but that also comes from him not being sure of himself when it comes to driving. Instead of looking to drive consitently, he is trying to break down defenders to get a 3PT shot. Everyone knows that and that makes it even harder. As he gets in better shape, he will become more confident in his driving ability, defenders will have to back off a bit and the game will become easier and the "dancing" will subside. Of course, this is all predicated on the assumption that he will become better athletically because if he stays in the same shape as he has been at the end of last season, he will have a terrible year in the league. That version of Doncic would definitely not be my top 5 pick.

Lowering BF means shedding weight. Can't turn fat to muscle. His base strength is good enough that he could lose a few pounds.

He need to show more of that mid range game he showed earlier last year. If can establish his pull-up game then everything will fall into place.

Thats actually not completely true. It really depends on what you are trying to do.

Besides I disagree that he needs to lose weight. Luka at 220 will be to skinny, thats not enough weight for his frame. Its true you cant turn fat into muscle but you can build muscle while shedding fat, you just have to do it correctly. Its impossible to do when your BF is already low but Lukas BF is definitely not at levels it needs to be so he has a lot of room to do this properly. At 6-8 and his frame he should eventually have about 105-107kg which would be around 230-235lbs.

There is a missconception that the lighter you are, the more explosive you are. It all depends on an individual. When I look at his body I can see him at his best at 240 with a body fat at around 7%. If he has the discipline to get there, he will be a monster. It can be done in 2-3 years but it will take a lot of work so it all depends on his work ethic.

[deb]

Supposedly, he's hitting the gym hard.

[agentofatlas]

He doesnt need to trim down. He has a large frame, is 6-8 and should easily be around 230-235. He just needs to be in shape with a lower BF% so that his muscles are more effective, turn that 15lbs of fat into muscle. Its not that hard to do, especially for him since he has never really worked with weights. A couple of months in the gym will do wonders for his body.

I do agree with his overdribbling on the perimeter at times but that also comes from him not being sure of himself when it comes to driving. Instead of looking to drive consitently, he is trying to break down defenders to get a 3PT shot. Everyone knows that and that makes it even harder. As he gets in better shape, he will become more confident in his driving ability, defenders will have to back off a bit and the game will become easier and the "dancing" will subside. Of course, this is all predicated on the assumption that he will become better athletically because if he stays in the same shape as he has been at the end of last season, he will have a terrible year in the league. That version of Doncic would definitely not be my top 5 pick.

Lowering BF means shedding weight. Can't turn fat to muscle. His base strength is good enough that he could lose a few pounds.

He need to show more of that mid range game he showed earlier last year. If can establish his pull-up game then everything will fall into place.

Thats actually not completely true. It really depends on what you are trying to do.

Besides I disagree that he needs to lose weight. Luka at 220 will be to skinny, thats not enough weight for his frame. Its true you cant turn fat into muscle but you can build muscle while shedding fat, you just have to do it correctly. Its impossible to do when your BF is already low but Lukas BF is definitely not at levels it needs to be so he has a lot of room to do this properly. At 6-8 and his frame he should eventually have about 105-107kg which would be around 230-235lbs.

There is a missconception that the lighter you are, the more explosive you are. It all depends on an individual. When I look at his body I can see him at his best at 240 with a body fat at around 7%. If he has the discipline to get there, he will be a monster. It can be done in 2-3 years but it will take a lot of work so it all depends on his work ethic.

Recomping is hard to do. The only ways you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time is if you're a beginner, are very fat and lastly on steroids. Its better for him to just cut (even if goes on gear) while maintaining strength. His base is good enough.

I'm not gonna mention his weight cause there's no official listing of his current one on hand. I'm only looking at his current body and in my opinion he could lose a few lbs.

Also his explosion will depend on how strong his legs and core are and being lighter up top helps that. Also helps minimize injury in the long run.

[J_T]

There is no way NBA bulking is done with natural organic food, eating cows that had listened to Mozart and Chopin while enjoying happy life in Swiss mountains. So yeah, definitely losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time is the default expectation.

[XTraderXL]

Lowering BF means shedding weight. Can't turn fat to muscle. His base strength is good enough that he could lose a few pounds.

He need to show more of that mid range game he showed earlier last year. If can establish his pull-up game then everything will fall into place.

Thats actually not completely true. It really depends on what you are trying to do.

Besides I disagree that he needs to lose weight. Luka at 220 will be to skinny, thats not enough weight for his frame. Its true you cant turn fat into muscle but you can build muscle while shedding fat, you just have to do it correctly. Its impossible to do when your BF is already low but Lukas BF is definitely not at levels it needs to be so he has a lot of room to do this properly. At 6-8 and his frame he should eventually have about 105-107kg which would be around 230-235lbs.

There is a missconception that the lighter you are, the more explosive you are. It all depends on an individual. When I look at his body I can see him at his best at 240 with a body fat at around 7%. If he has the discipline to get there, he will be a monster. It can be done in 2-3 years but it will take a lot of work so it all depends on his work ethic.

Recomping is hard to do. The only ways you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time is if you're a beginner, are very fat and lastly on steroids. Its better for him to just cut (even if goes on gear) while maintaining strength. His base is good enough.

This is definitely not true. You dont need steroids to do any of that, not at all. I wont go deeper into it but your info is outdated if you really believe what you just said. Besides, Mavs will have him on a "special" diet to make it even easier.

[Archx]

Some people here have really poor understanding how working out works or how an already established athlete can transform his body with a bit of dedication and proper diet. And Luka already is an established athlete, he worked out in the gym plenty of times in the past and with NBA trainers, he will get only stronger if that is his goal.
I do believe though that his goal should be maximizing his speed and agility since that is his preference anyway. He wants to be more of a PG than SF/PF, which automatically means in the NBA he has to do what LeBron did this summer. Working on his core more than working on his pure strength. I am not sure he will accomplish this in 2 months but he will probably work on that in the next couple of seasons.

I watched a lot of tape from various players working out this summer and how agile/quick they are and Luka is nowhere near that level. Well at least he was far away from that when he finished his EU season. Also he was on vacation for a long time and did some promotion work so i really hope he gets back to DAL as soon as possible. His focus should be his legs and core, he has become very weak towards the end of the season. His legs gave up a lot of times and he lost his balance while dribbling. You can't survive in the NBA without strong legs and core body strength. So bulking up shouldn't be his priority, he will gain nothing with only bulking up.
People need to realize that basketball is not power lifting sport, there are body areas that are far more important than super bulky arms.

[agentofatlas]

Thats actually not completely true. It really depends on what you are trying to do.

Besides I disagree that he needs to lose weight. Luka at 220 will be to skinny, thats not enough weight for his frame. Its true you cant turn fat into muscle but you can build muscle while shedding fat, you just have to do it correctly. Its impossible to do when your BF is already low but Lukas BF is definitely not at levels it needs to be so he has a lot of room to do this properly. At 6-8 and his frame he should eventually have about 105-107kg which would be around 230-235lbs.

There is a missconception that the lighter you are, the more explosive you are. It all depends on an individual. When I look at his body I can see him at his best at 240 with a body fat at around 7%. If he has the discipline to get there, he will be a monster. It can be done in 2-3 years but it will take a lot of work so it all depends on his work ethic.

Recomping is hard to do. The only ways you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time is if you're a beginner, are very fat and lastly on steroids. Its better for him to just cut (even if goes on gear) while maintaining strength. His base is good enough.

This is definitely not true. You dont need steroids to do any of that, not at all. I wont go deeper into it but your info is outdated if you really believe what you just said. Besides, Mavs will have him on a "special" diet to make it even easier.

Has there been new literature about this stuff? Feel free to link me up man. I'm a sucker for sports science studies. Also I'm not saying recomp is impossible, I'm just saying its inefficient and slow if your a natural athlete. It's better to just cut and focus on maintaining strength.

[Teffer10]

I don't necessarily see bulk in that picture....looks more like trimmed body fat.
Looks like lean muscle to me.

[Rn5ho]

You can see though, that he's HUGE. Like really big. He has a lot of this raw/natural mass/strength, which will allow him to play even PF if needed, combined with skills to be the ballhandler.

[Archx]

You can see though, that he's HUGE. Like really big. He has a lot of this raw/natural mass/strength, which will allow him to play even PF if needed, combined with skills to be the ballhandler.

You mean huge as huge arm muscles? Because he was just flexing there on the pic after workout. Look at previous pics that are few days older, he looks nothing like that. But if you mean huge as huge body frame then yea, he has a nice solid frame that he can transform into basically whatever he wants. But as of now, i am not convinced that he could effectively play PF. On offense maybe, defense not a chance. New era PF's that are coming into the league are quick, agile and even strong.
1 month ago even Carlisle had no clue where to put him i am sure all of us here don't know better than him But will be fun to see the "final product" when he actually steps out on the court, what his weaknesses and strengths are.

[J_T]

We don't have enough information to conclude just what his physical condition is at the moment, but it has been said for some time now, that he had hit the gym. While I do agree that flexing a muscle after a workout will always look good, I would also agree with the post that says his body fat % seems lower. Not judging it solely on the arm, but his face. He definitely had higher BF% at the end of the season.

[2011Champs]

Maybe Luka will be the next Oliver Miller?

[BlueSan]

I just wanna see the kid play again, give me that Chinese games or whatever heh

[mabundo_nagumbe]

I just wanna see the kid play again, give me that Chinese games or whatever heh

Wake me up, when september ends.